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Post by hback41 on May 24, 2012 15:58:05 GMT -6
I am the the guy on staff who has a question about everything. I own that.
We have win state as one of our goals every year. 2 teams have won our level of state 11 of the past 12 years. The current champs have won four in a row. The one time another team won, the QB was later a top 10 NFL draft choice.
We were 4-6 last year. We have 1 returning full time starter at oline. We lost an FCS scholarship FS/WR, a D2 CB/WR and don't know who our QB is. Plus we've never gotten past the second of 5 rounds in the playoffs. We have the least amount of talent in 5 years and half the kids don't like the team leader/captain.
It would be a miracle for us to win state. It will drive me nuts all seasons with posters all over the locker room talking about winning state when we can't. Win our league. YES. Quarter finals. YES. Anything beyond that is just a dream.
Am i just being a Donald Downer?
Sent from my DROID RAZR using ProBoards
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Post by jgordon1 on May 24, 2012 17:57:38 GMT -6
No I don't think so...we were in the same type of situation...I think the kids can smell BS.....We always had "stepped goals" second from the top was make regionals, on the top was go as far as we can
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Post by coachwilliams2 on May 24, 2012 19:01:32 GMT -6
Most BCS school never list a national title with their goals...win thier league, win conference, play in a Jan. 1st bowl game.
Keep all goals attainable. Not listing it doesnt mean you don't believe you can win, but you also arent setting up goals and "failing" to meet them every year.
Our goals are:
1. Undefeated at home
2. Beat RIVAL
3. Play a Home playoff game
4. Win a region championship.
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Post by Chris Clement on May 24, 2012 19:15:45 GMT -6
I don't even include winning or scoring in goals, those are results, the product of doing things right, and should validate the accomplishment of your goals. If everyone does everything to the best of their capacity, the score takes care of itself.
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Post by planck on May 24, 2012 19:29:37 GMT -6
Win the next game. That pretty much covers every base possible.
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Post by davishfc on May 24, 2012 19:31:35 GMT -6
I don't even include winning or scoring in goals, those are results, the product of doing things right, and should validate the accomplishment of your goals. If everyone does everything to the best of their capacity, the score takes care of itself. Yeah...focus on the process. |
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Post by groundchuck on May 24, 2012 20:36:43 GMT -6
We talk more about being 1-0 each week. That allows us to focus on each step. I think it's good for kids talk about a title as a goal. When you're at the foot of the mountain you can lookup at the peak. But once you get going you just have to focus on each step you take to get there. Our guys are talking about titles too. I tell them that is great. But are you focused on the tasks and hard work in getting there?
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Post by fantom on May 24, 2012 20:39:22 GMT -6
Why not? It might not be the highest priority and I probably wouldn't put it on posters but why shouldn't a state championship be a goal?
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Post by coachd5085 on May 24, 2012 20:58:45 GMT -6
Why not? It might not be the highest priority and I probably wouldn't put it on posters but why shouldn't a state championship be a goal? My reasoning would be because having goals that are not realistically attainable, even with a GREAT DEAL of Hard work, can negatively impact the "goal making process" which I believe is a crucial part of the hidden curriculum of football. I also think it could hurt hurt credibility and buy in when striving to reach actual attainable goals. |
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Post by wybulldogs on May 24, 2012 21:17:13 GMT -6
As someone mentioned earlier, we focus on 1-0 each week. No point in looking ahead, as you then tend to look past teams.
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Post by fantom on May 24, 2012 21:20:55 GMT -6
Why not? It might not be the highest priority and I probably wouldn't put it on posters but why shouldn't a state championship be a goal? My reasoning would be because having goals that are not realistically attainable, even with a GREAT DEAL of Hard work, can negatively impact the "goal making process" which I believe is a crucial part of the hidden curriculum of football. I also think it could hurt hurt credibility and buy in when striving to reach actual attainable goals. I understand that and sort of agree but what are goals for? I'd argue that, short of achieving the ultimate goal, if you reach all of your goals you've set them too low. I agree that if you're not a serious contender for a state championship you probably shouldn't feature it too prominently. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be working toward it. |
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Post by coachbuck on May 25, 2012 1:00:00 GMT -6
If you can win league and make it to the playoffs and be competitive you never know. I dont really look that far ahead but I dont think its a negative either. You dont know how your team will grow, your opponents could have injuries. Football is a long season. If your not the hc, buy into the program but reiterate to the kids, the way you win state is win friday everyweek. Good luck coach.
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Post by groundchuck on May 25, 2012 3:42:26 GMT -6
I don't know that stating you want a title hurts credibility if you don't win it. Saying I guarentee it might/would but stating that's a goal doesn't hurt it. I do agree with "5085" that it might be an unattainable goal. I have leaders on the team right now who state that's their goal, yet are not putting in the work to back that goal up. They are not leading others to achieve their stated goal. Winning a state title not only takes talent but I feel an incredible amount of luck must be on your side as well. Injuries, weather, who you run into in the playoffs, all those things you cannot control are factors as well. I coached as an assistant on an undefeated team through the quarters....we lost the game on a fumble on the goal line...from a kid who had not fumbled in three years of varsity runningback.....ball was knocked out by the shoe of a defender as he was being pancaked.....so it does take some luck to win a title. Man am I rambling now  My point is we talk about the big goals. Then we talk about the "smaller" goals we have to achieve in order for that big goal to even be on the radar. The things like going 1-0 each week. But even that has steps that have to be accomplished to make it happen. Practice goals, off-season goals etc. Goal setting is such an interesting topic. |
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Post by John Knight on May 25, 2012 5:20:26 GMT -6
The Goal is to win every game you play. Period. If you do that you will win the state championship. That has to be a goal for me. I have a goal to be just like Christ, is that realistic? No, but the idea is to do as much as you can to attain that goal,
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Post by coachbuck on May 25, 2012 5:32:45 GMT -6
The Goal is to win every game you play. Period. If you do that you will win the state championship. That has to be a goal for me. I have a goal to be just like Christ, is that realistic? No, but the idea is to do as much as you can to attain that goal, Perfect, why didnt I think of that. I like it. |
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Post by jgordon1 on May 25, 2012 6:55:47 GMT -6
My reasoning would be because having goals that are not realistically attainable, even with a GREAT DEAL of Hard work, can negatively impact the "goal making process" which I believe is a crucial part of the hidden curriculum of football. I also think it could hurt hurt credibility and buy in when striving to reach actual attainable goals. I understand that and sort of agree but what are goals for? I'd argue that, short of achieving the ultimate goal, if you reach all of your goals you've set them too low. I agree that if you're not a serious contender for a state championship you probably shouldn't feature it too prominently. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be working toward it. Large successes can not happen unless there are a lot of small successes along the way which is why we use stepped goals |
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Post by coachbrek on May 25, 2012 7:49:57 GMT -6
This is my first year on staff but I have been watching this team for years.
We are the second biggest school in our division, there are only 16 teams in our division, so half the field makes the playoffs, you only have to win two playoff games to get to the state championship.
So..... we only have to be better than 15 teams and only one of those teams has a higher enrollment than us.
I think having the state championship as a goal for us is reasonable every year.
Yet nobody talks about it, not even on the radar, this team has been to the playoffs twice in twelve years.
The town has not won a state championship in football since 1936.
If you don't have winning a state championship as a goal, how on earth could you possibly attain it?
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2012 8:03:50 GMT -6
If you don't have winning a state championship as a goal, how on earth could you possibly attain it? It is a time horizon thing. I believe STATE CHAMPS is a PROGRAM goal... not an individual team goal. If the PROGRAM is not at a certain point, then individual teams within that program having "state champs" as a goal is relatively worthless. For example, in 2002, TCU and Boise State having "NATIONAL CHAMPIONS" as a goal was probably worthless. In 2012, the program has reached a level where the individual teams can point to that as a goal with meaning. Much of this discussion boils down to wording and perception. |
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Post by davishfc on May 25, 2012 8:04:56 GMT -6
If everyone does everything to the best of their capacity, the score takes care of itself. And, in reality, despite doing everything in your power the score doesn't always read the way you wanted it to. But at least you gave it your best shot. That's really the key, stepping out and taking that risk, putting everything you have into it, with an outcome that is completely uncertain. If you can get kids to believe and commit to the process despite that known risk...now you're coaching! |
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Post by John Knight on May 25, 2012 8:08:44 GMT -6
Stop using the BCS guys, it is not a true championship tournament. You can bet your sweet a$$ every FBS, D-II and DIII team has National Championship on there Goal Chart!
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Post by davishfc on May 25, 2012 8:12:48 GMT -6
Stop using the BCS guys, it is not a true championship tournament. You can bet your sweet a$$ every FBS, D-II and DIII team has National Championship on there Goal Chart! I played DIII at Alma College in Michigan from 2000-2003. We had it on our mission. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2012 8:43:08 GMT -6
Stop using the BCS guys, it is not a true championship tournament. You can bet your sweet a$$ every FBS, D-II and DIII team has National Championship on there Goal Chart! Fairly ridiculous. Keep in mind that the two teams I referenced have a MUCH greater chance of achieving the goal of a National Championship than the vast majority of the teams you claim to have such a goal on a goal chart. |
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Post by blb on May 25, 2012 8:50:54 GMT -6
Perhaps you can have it as a goal but to evaluate success of your season or program by that standard is not realistic.
In our state there are over 600 HS playing Football.
We have had playoffs for 37 years. Despite them being expanded three times from original format, there are around 100 that have either never made the playoffs or won a post-season game.
Only a little over 100 of those 600-some schools have ever won a state title.
Almost 20% of the championships have been won by the same 10-12 schools.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2012 9:01:58 GMT -6
My thinking is that a goal is something you consistently point to and reference not something that you would like to happen. I don't believe it would be productive to consistently point to and reference something you realistically won't be approaching, much less attaining.
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Post by John Knight on May 25, 2012 9:04:32 GMT -6
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Post by coachcb on May 25, 2012 9:05:48 GMT -6
Three goals this year:
1. Win that week's game.
2. Win homecoming.
3. Make play-offs.
We shouldn't have included a play-off run as a goal because we were essentially knocked out of contention week five. The rest of the season was a downhill battle.
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Post by fantom on May 25, 2012 9:05:51 GMT -6
My thinking is that a goal is something you consistently point to and reference not something that you would like to happen. I don't believe it would be productive to consistently point to and reference something you realistically won't be approaching, much less attaining. I don't think that you should consistently point to it but it should be something that you're working toward. It may be a long-range goal but it should be a goal. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2012 9:10:55 GMT -6
My thinking is that a goal is something you consistently point to and reference not something that you would like to happen. I don't believe it would be productive to consistently point to and reference something you realistically won't be approaching, much less attaining. I don't think that you should consistently point to it but it should be something that you're working toward. It may be a long-range goal but it should be a goal. A long range goal wouldn't be a "team" goal then would it? Program level perhaps, but if you have finished 4-6, 4-6, 5-5 the last three seasons, I would not think the 2012-2013 TEAM should list playing in the Dome as a goal here in Louisiana (I can only speak to the championship environment here in LA). And if you aren't really point to/referencing the goal...then why bother setting one? How does it impact any change? |
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Post by fantom on May 25, 2012 9:13:08 GMT -6
I don't think that you should consistently point to it but it should be something that you're working toward. It may be a long-range goal but it should be a goal. A long range goal wouldn't be a "team" goal then would it? Program level perhaps, but if you have finished 4-6, 4-6, 5-5 the last three seasons, I would not think the 2012-2013 TEAM should list playing in the Dome as a goal here in Louisiana (I can only speak to the championship environment here in LA). I might not include it on a goals chart but I'd certainly consider a worthwhile goal. |
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Post by Coach Huey on May 25, 2012 9:24:56 GMT -6
If you are going to discuss the goals for 2012 season, then shouldn't those be things you are working toward and must achieve for 2012? If the ultimate goal is to have the program be a perennial state champion, then your seasonal goals should help get you there - they are objectives.
So, in 2012 you have team objectives - which will tie into your program goals/mission.
The objectives are pointed to, they are talked about, they serve as a guide post for the offseason, for practice, for the season.
Which, to me, would mean that if you haven't won a playoff game in 3 years, why would you bypass the "make playoffs" goal and jump straight to the "win state" goal?
When you have a first year coach on your staff say is 'goal' is to be a head coach? you don't expect him to achieve that in 2012 do you? That 'goal' doesn't help him because at the end of the year you and he know that he won't be the head coach no matter what. So, you have him set a 2012 goal of _____ - some objective that helps guide in through his development in 2012. And, yes, it will eventually help him down the road. But, we are talking about one season here, not the entire career.
So, in my opinion, you have to evaluate your season for what it is, for where you are in relation to achieving program goals. Be genuine with your players - be honest - push them to overachieve, no doubt. But, you can stress achieving goals, "winning" without saying anything about winning state as the goal.
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