|
|
Post by fshamrock on May 24, 2012 12:26:05 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by newhope on May 24, 2012 12:38:34 GMT -6
A disgruntled parent with enough money to pay for an ad causes all of this. You have a petition of 520 vs an ad paid for by one. This is, unfortunately, the world we live in and coach in. Obviously, the school administration refused to listen to this parent's probably baseless accusation so he used his money. Unfortunately, in many areas, you get a parent like this one with the ear of an administrator or school board member and the coach is out on the street.
|
|
|
|
Post by NC1974 on May 24, 2012 12:53:10 GMT -6
What does it mean to be tough coach?
If you:
-verbally abuse a kid
-physically intimidate a kid
-physically abuse a kid
-belittle a kid
- etc
Then you're a bully. You might be a tough coach, but you're a bully too.
If you:
- demand excellence from yourself and players
- demand mental discipline from yourself and players
- practie and model self control
- demonstrate that the team's goal are more imprtant than your own
Then you're a tough coach imo.
It always bugged me whan a coach would try to get in a player's face and physically intimidate....it is a classic abuse of power...most 15 - 18 yr olds are going to back down to a grown man who is in a position of power...so the coach isn't acting tough IMO, he's hiding behind his status.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 24, 2012 13:04:36 GMT -6
What does it mean to be tough coach? If you: -verbally abuse a kid -physically intimidate a kid -physically abuse a kid -belittle a kid - etc Then you're a bully. You might be a tough coach, but you're a bully too. If you: - demand excellence from yourself and players - demand mental discipline from yourself and players - practie and model self control - demonstrate that the team's goal are more imprtant than your own Then you're a tough coach imo. It always bugged me whan a coach would try to get in a player's face and physically intimidate....it is a classic abuse of power...most 15 - 18 yr olds are going to back down to a grown man who is in a position of power...so the coach isn't acting tough IMO, he's hiding behind his status. Where's the line? |
|
|
|
Post by airman on May 24, 2012 16:51:26 GMT -6
I had a parent my first year accuse me of riding his son to hard. He son was not a bad kid he was just lazy. He would not run routes correctly. a speed out turned into something like a banana shape. So i would get on him. The parent complained to the AD. I explained my side.
The kid became even more of a problem after the parent enabled him. I got to the point where i just told the kid to go sit on the sidelines if he was no going to practice right. Funny thing is, He would go sit over on the sideline and talk to the water girls all practice.
When game time came, he never played. His parent was even more upset. I explained if he was not going to practice right, I was not going to make him practice right and no practice, no play.
Funny words came out of the mouth of the parent. But that is your job to make him practice right. I said " you said any comments directed his way was bullying and abusive so i no longer do that."
|
|
|
|
Post by mattyg2787 on May 25, 2012 1:47:36 GMT -6
LOL this topic reminds me of my old boss telling me about back in the days of corporal punishment. He used to tell me when he coped a hiding in school he wouldn't race home and tell he wouldn't tell his parents because he would cop another flogging for misbehavior at school.
I'm not endorsing coaches to bully kids but they need to Harden up. When my boss dresses me down for doing something I sit there and take it because its a lesson I learnt from strict teachers.
There is a big gap between pushing your kids to excel and calling them a worthless piece of something.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using ProBoards
|
|
|
|
Post by olcoach53 on May 25, 2012 8:16:59 GMT -6
In some circumstances this is a lose lose situation. If you are hard on the kid you are bullying them and treating them poorly but on the flip side with the same kid if you are NOT hard on them then you are ignoring them and treating them poorly. I wish some of these parents would come out and watch and see how their children act and perform at practice. Honestly I think some of them would be astonished at the poor attitude and lack of effort by their sons.
|
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on May 26, 2012 22:02:23 GMT -6
I think it's true though. I knew if if I {censored} around at school or didn't work hard at practice and got in trouble my dad was going to support the coaches and teachers. That wasn't my motivation to do well. But I knew better than to complain the time my coach broke his clipboard over my helmet for jumping offsides in practice.
|
|
|
|
Post by bluedevil4 on May 27, 2012 6:39:22 GMT -6
In some circumstances this is a lose lose situation. If you are hard on the kid you are bullying them and treating them poorly but on the flip side with the same kid if you are NOT hard on them then you are ignoring them and treating them poorly. I wish some of these parents would come out and watch and see how their children act and perform at practice. Honestly I think some of them would be astonished at the poor attitude and lack of effort by their sons. The problem with that though, is that when the parent comes out to practice, that kid plays/practices like it's his last time ever on a field just so they can prove the coach wrong, or to avoid disappointing their parents. We had a mom say that she'd have to start coming to practice to see if we're being fair to her kid (her kid was afraid to even step on the field and would never practice. Just tried to hide and avoid all contact). She comes to practice, and all of a sudden, the kid can play football. She doesn't come to practice next day, he goes back into hibernation. That's just my experience with the situation. |
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 27, 2012 6:57:50 GMT -6
In some circumstances this is a lose lose situation. If you are hard on the kid you are bullying them and treating them poorly but on the flip side with the same kid if you are NOT hard on them then you are ignoring them and treating them poorly. I wish some of these parents would come out and watch and see how their children act and perform at practice. Honestly I think some of them would be astonished at the poor attitude and lack of effort by their sons. The problem with that though, is that when the parent comes out to practice, that kid plays/practices like it's his last time ever on a field just so they can prove the coach wrong, or to avoid disappointing their parents. We had a mom say that she'd have to start coming to practice to see if we're being fair to her kid (her kid was afraid to even step on the field and would never practice. Just tried to hide and avoid all contact). She comes to practice, and all of a sudden, the kid can play football. She doesn't come to practice next day, he goes back into hibernation. That's just my experience with the situation. Film practice? |
|
|
|
Post by jlenwood on May 27, 2012 7:20:13 GMT -6
What does it mean to be tough coach? If you: -verbally abuse a kid -physically intimidate a kid -physically abuse a kid -belittle a kid - etc Then you're a bully. You might be a tough coach, but you're a bully too. If you: - demand excellence from yourself and players - demand mental discipline from yourself and players - practie and model self control - demonstrate that the team's goal are more imprtant than your own Then you're a tough coach imo. It always bugged me whan a coach would try to get in a player's face and physically intimidate....it is a classic abuse of power...most 15 - 18 yr olds are going to back down to a grown man who is in a position of power...so the coach isn't acting tough IMO, he's hiding behind his status. This hits the nail on the head in my opinion. One of the definitions of bully I have looked up is: "A person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker". I remember years ago we had a HC who would see a kid miss an assignment on the field, and instead of correcting or COACHING the kid, he would bring him to the sideline and let the kid know he was worthless, lazy, no good etc. He would hold him out of the game and every so often go back to the kid and give him the same treatment. The result was a lot of those kids quit coming out for football and he lost his job after a couple of losing seasons. Now you could say the weren't football players, or they just weren't cut out for it or whatever, but the truth is nobody wants to be treated like sh#% by their coach.....so they just stop playing. To me the difference in being a tough coach and a thug or bully is respect. If I respect the player, I can be tough by being demanding and the player understands I am trying to help him be better than he can on his own. A bully who has no respect for the player will be seen by the player for what he is, someone in authority who gets a nut by being a d!ck to kids. Please don't misunderstand me on this, I think a lot of the anti bullying stuff that goes on in schools is a waste of time and resources, but when it comes to adults acting like a jerk towards teenagers because they have some power over them, I think that is wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by bluedevil4 on May 27, 2012 7:32:03 GMT -6
The problem with that though, is that when the parent comes out to practice, that kid plays/practices like it's his last time ever on a field just so they can prove the coach wrong, or to avoid disappointing their parents. We had a mom say that she'd have to start coming to practice to see if we're being fair to her kid (her kid was afraid to even step on the field and would never practice. Just tried to hide and avoid all contact). She comes to practice, and all of a sudden, the kid can play football. She doesn't come to practice next day, he goes back into hibernation. That's just my experience with the situation. Film practice? We were coaching middle school. Didn't have the luxury of that ability. It was just the two of us, and we couldn't afford to coach and film at the same time (didn't have a stand either). Otherwise that would be the solution. |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 27, 2012 8:05:42 GMT -6
What does it mean to be tough coach? If you: -verbally abuse a kid -physically intimidate a kid -physically abuse a kid -belittle a kid - etc Then you're a bully. You might be a tough coach, but you're a bully too. If you: - demand excellence from yourself and players - demand mental discipline from yourself and players - practie and model self control - demonstrate that the team's goal are more imprtant than your own Then you're a tough coach imo. It always bugged me whan a coach would try to get in a player's face and physically intimidate....it is a classic abuse of power...most 15 - 18 yr olds are going to back down to a grown man who is in a position of power...so the coach isn't acting tough IMO, he's hiding behind his status. This hits the nail on the head in my opinion. One of the definitions of bully I have looked up is: "A person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker". I remember years ago we had a HC who would see a kid miss an assignment on the field, and instead of correcting or COACHING the kid, he would bring him to the sideline and let the kid know he was worthless, lazy, no good etc. He would hold him out of the game and every so often go back to the kid and give him the same treatment. The result was a lot of those kids quit coming out for football and he lost his job after a couple of losing seasons. Now you could say the weren't football players, or they just weren't cut out for it or whatever, but the truth is nobody wants to be treated like sh#% by their coach.....so they just stop playing. To me the difference in being a tough coach and a thug or bully is respect. If I respect the player, I can be tough by being demanding and the player understands I am trying to help him be better than he can on his own. A bully who has no respect for the player will be seen by the player for what he is, someone in authority who gets a nut by being a d!ck to kids. Please don't misunderstand me on this, I think a lot of the anti bullying stuff that goes on in schools is a waste of time and resources, but when it comes to adults acting like a jerk towards teenagers because they have some power over them, I think that is wrong. The problem is that in real life the definition is subjective. There are kids and parents who consider any correction or criticism as intimidation. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on May 27, 2012 8:27:57 GMT -6
I had a parent my first year accuse me of riding his son to hard. He son was not a bad kid he was just lazy. He would not run routes correctly. a speed out turned into something like a banana shape. So i would get on him. The parent complained to the AD. I explained my side. The kid became even more of a problem after the parent enabled him. I got to the point where i just told the kid to go sit on the sidelines if he was no going to practice right. Funny thing is, He would go sit over on the sideline and talk to the water girls all practice. When game time came, he never played. His parent was even more upset. I explained if he was not going to practice right, I was not going to make him practice right and no practice, no play. Funny words came out of the mouth of the parent. But that is your job to make him practice right. I said " you said any comments directed his way was bullying and abusive so i no longer do that." In the case of Mike Leach this kind of situation got him fired. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on May 27, 2012 8:31:27 GMT -6
I initially react very negatively to people using the "bullying" to describe ANY coach just simply because I know the word is being overused and will eventually morph into a word that can be attached negatively to any action someone doesn't like.
|
|
|
|
Post by PSS on May 27, 2012 9:09:06 GMT -6
It's all about relationships with your players.
Maybe I am wrong but we aren't having this discussion if you're building relationships with your players. I'm not talking about on the field but off the field.
I believe as their coach it's my responsibility to:
get to know them, what makes them tick, what is going on in their lives, their family life, their goals.
By building this relationship I have never had a problem when I ripped into a kid for doing wrong in practice or at school.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 27, 2012 9:34:31 GMT -6
It's all about relationships with your players. Maybe I am wrong but we aren't having this discussion if you're building relationships with your players. I'm not talking about on the field but off the field. I believe as their coach it's my responsibility to: get to know them, what makes them tick, what is going on in their lives, their family life, their goals. By building this relationship I have never had a problem when I ripped into a kid for doing wrong in practice or at school. What of you find out that what makes them tick is ego, selfishness, and an enabling parent? |
|
|
|
Post by irishdog on May 27, 2012 9:40:36 GMT -6
Many of us "older" guys who played HS football in the 60's and 70's were sons of a generation of military men, many of whom became teachers and coaches. We were drilled at practice not unlike they were drilled when they were in the service. Our parents grew up in a society where military discipline was the norm, and it was all that most of them knew. It was rare (if ever) a parent would intervene for their kid in a school disciplinary issue, or challenge a teacher or a coach because those folks were the authority figures, the professionals, and most parents respected those positions, and felt the authorities/professionals had the best interests of their kids at heart. Not anymore. My heart goes out to all the young coaches and teachers today. They have it much tougher than I ever did as a teacher/coach. Suffice it to say I'm glad to have reached the twilight of my career.
|
|
|
|
Post by PSS on May 27, 2012 9:52:44 GMT -6
It's all about relationships with your players. Maybe I am wrong but we aren't having this discussion if you're building relationships with your players. I'm not talking about on the field but off the field. I believe as their coach it's my responsibility to: get to know them, what makes them tick, what is going on in their lives, their family life, their goals. By building this relationship I have never had a problem when I ripped into a kid for doing wrong in practice or at school. What of you find out that what makes them tick is ego, selfishness, and an enabling parent? Fantom, you earn their trust. When they realize that you care about them as a human being and not just a football player they will do anything for you. I've had to adjust. It wasn't like that the first 10 years of my career. Luckily, I am in a place now that we have parents that support the coaching staff. |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 27, 2012 9:59:20 GMT -6
What of you find out that what makes them tick is ego, selfishness, and an enabling parent? Fantom, you earn their trust. When they realize that you care about them as a human being and not just a football player they will do anything for you. I've had to adjust. It wasn't like that the first 10 years of my career. Luckily, I am in a place now that we have parents that support the coaching staff. Mostly that's true but not always. |
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on May 27, 2012 11:35:43 GMT -6
I had a parent my first year accuse me of riding his son to hard. He son was not a bad kid he was just lazy. He would not run routes correctly. a speed out turned into something like a banana shape. So i would get on him. The parent complained to the AD. I explained my side. The kid became even more of a problem after the parent enabled him. I got to the point where i just told the kid to go sit on the sidelines if he was no going to practice right. Funny thing is, He would go sit over on the sideline and talk to the water girls all practice. When game time came, he never played. His parent was even more upset. I explained if he was not going to practice right, I was not going to make him practice right and no practice, no play. Funny words came out of the mouth of the parent. But that is your job to make him practice right. I said " you said any comments directed his way was bullying and abusive so i no longer do that." LOL..the same thing happened to me my first year....I had to have a sit down w/ the AD and the dad too...Funny thing is that somehow an oldtime coach that coached around here for like 25 yrs found out about it said you know I had his dad and he was the SAME WAY..he is still an a-hole.. |
|
