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Post by fballcoachg on Jul 20, 2012 19:20:07 GMT -6
We had our coaches meeting today and there was a line that made me laugh and realize how the kids must feel when I drop a knowledgable line on them. I am going to have punters and long snappers in our prepractice specials period to which I said "I know about punting but no clue about long snapping." The HC helpfully and smart assedly said "It isn't hard, if the ball gets to the punter quick it was good, if it doesn't then it was bad."
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Post by coachklee on Jul 23, 2012 22:22:27 GMT -6
Its about who wants it more.... Hate that one because I have never seen a kid that busts his butt all offseason, all week in practice, and does everything he's asked that "doesn't want it." I understand what you mean. However, I don't think that the coach saying that means that their kids "don't want it" AT ALL. Obviously the team they coach, "wants it." But I do believe that some teams want the outcome they've worked toward more than others. I believe the level of desire on the part of teams isn't uniform across the board. I also believe desire is one of the factors that influences the outcomes of games. Speaking from personal experience, I've coached teams on both ends of this and not because we didn't motivate enough. We just had kids that wanted it more one particular year or game than other teams I've coached. There was one year where I believed the desire was even higher than some of the most talented teams I coached when we won only one game. Those kids wanted it but they were still discovering what the process entailed. We lost two games by a touchdown that year. We won the season finale because of their desire (we call it pride). They wanted it more than our opponent. So I do agree that I don't like that statement implying that the team doesn't want it at all. But some teams do want to win more than others. Assuming the teams are evenly matched in 1) talent, 2) coaching, and 3) execute during the course of the game...I don't know exactly where desire (pride) factors in but it does and it, no doubt, influences the outcome of some games. I'd add that it is about wanting it more throughout the process...at least the week preparation...probably throughout the season...and often throughout a career. Minus being born with some God given attributes from your mother and father, most teams that succeed on the football field put in more time somewhere (weights, 7-on-7, camps, playing pop warner/rocket/pee wee football) than their opponents.
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Post by coachklee on Jul 23, 2012 22:28:24 GMT -6
Doesn't matter, his English isn't good enough. They think "Wing-T" is a position. Seriously, they say that the DW team plays "Ace" with "two Wing-T's." They also call DW power a reverse, which I can not explain. How/why are you not in charge? Can't you find your own gig up there in Canada? Is the closest opening to far away? Just an update on the list of things considered a "reverse," rocket is now on the list. I actually spit the water I was drinking after reading this! It gets better. They don't know what a stiff-arm is, apparently it's called an eyz-man, as in they saw the Heisman trophy statue and had the idea. The video game is called "Mayden," and we have a formation in the play book called "Riffle" because a coach went to some English place to get an offense and it was passed orally from coach to coach an by the time someone sat down to make a written play book the mispronunciation had stuck and nobody realized that it was the inverse of "pistol." Seriously how are you still not in charge? Terminology isn't everything and I know you are at the zoo, but geez! I'm starting to think your making some of your stories up to give all of us a good laugh!
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Post by coachklee on Jul 23, 2012 22:38:38 GMT -6
When I take my kids to camp, before they get out of the car I always tell them: "Look Coached, it's a long walk home." Also last year, although I didn't really say anything to the kid, I got irritated with our right guard during pass pro (rather the lack there of) and I replaced him with a gatorade bottle. The 1st guy I worked for during college was my uncle who coached the JV... Sitting around drinking beers and watching the end of a game tape with the back-ups in he said, "____ is so unbelievably useless. This beer can would be able to do more on a football field." I like gatorade more, you can actually bring that out to the field and replace the kid with it and probably keep your job at most places.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 23, 2012 23:21:33 GMT -6
Doesn't matter, his English isn't good enough. They think "Wing-T" is a position. Seriously, they say that the DW team plays "Ace" with "two Wing-T's." They also call DW power a reverse, which I can not explain. How/why are you not in charge? Can't you find your own gig up there in Canada? Is the closest opening to far away? I actually spit the water I was drinking after reading this! It gets better. They don't know what a stiff-arm is, apparently it's called an eyz-man, as in they saw the Heisman trophy statue and had the idea. The video game is called "Mayden," and we have a formation in the play book called "Riffle" because a coach went to some English place to get an offense and it was passed orally from coach to coach an by the time someone sat down to make a written play book the mispronunciation had stuck and nobody realized that it was the inverse of "pistol." Seriously how are you still not in charge? Terminology isn't everything and I know you are at the zoo, but geez! I'm starting to think your making some of your stories up to give all of us a good laugh! Please, I beg of you. Search Google Maps for "CFB Bagotville" and zoom out until you find something you recognize. This is not a place for an outsider to be successful. They have their own genetic diseases and world class researchers visit to investigate the effects of 200 years of inbreeding. Our most recent JV staff was: HC-18 y/o (turned 18 mid-season) DC-19 y/o - solid DL coach, but the DC title turned him into Richard Lebeau Jr. OC1-18 y/o - fired/quit/didn't last because he couldn't make it to practices OC2-19 y/o - would have been fired/quit, but it was too late and nobody cared STC1- 18 y/o - fired/quit/didn't last Mish-mash of maybe 12 assistants, about 20% attendance, meaning between 1-8 every practice - 15-18 y/o Every single one went to HS together and were buddies. Then there was me, the elder statesman at 23, who was assistant-without-portfolio, then STC, as well as filling in at various coordinator spots, get-back coach, bench coach, acting HC when the HC couldn't make it (why would you schedule practices when you have class), team sergeant-major, gap-plugger extraordinaire. I'd show up, ask who was missing, and fill in for them. In four seasons I've never had a position group to call my own, probably because I'm the only coach who's always there. I assure you, this is more true than I care for.
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Post by coachklee on Jul 24, 2012 14:13:30 GMT -6
Please, I beg of you. Search Google Maps for "CFB Bagotville" and zoom out until you find something you recognize. This is not a place for an outsider to be successful. They have their own genetic diseases and world class researchers visit to investigate the effects of 200 years of inbreeding. Our most recent JV staff was: HC-18 y/o (turned 18 mid-season) DC-19 y/o - solid DL coach, but the DC title turned him into Richard Lebeau Jr. OC1-18 y/o - fired/quit/didn't last because he couldn't make it to practices OC2-19 y/o - would have been fired/quit, but it was too late and nobody cared STC1- 18 y/o - fired/quit/didn't last Mish-mash of maybe 12 assistants, about 20% attendance, meaning between 1-8 every practice - 15-18 y/o Every single one went to HS together and were buddies. Then there was me, the elder statesman at 23, who was assistant-without-portfolio, then STC, as well as filling in at various coordinator spots, get-back coach, bench coach, acting HC when the HC couldn't make it (why would you schedule practices when you have class), team sergeant-major, gap-plugger extraordinaire. I'd show up, ask who was missing, and fill in for them. In four seasons I've never had a position group to call my own, probably because I'm the only coach who's always there. I assure you, this is more true than I care for. Couldn't find info on 200 years of inbreeding, but you aren't making up the fact that you coach at the zoo and it is a real place! Besides the fact that it is the zoo, how the heck do 18 year olds get put in charge of a football team? Especially if someone more responsible, more mature and more knowledgeable is available?!?!?
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 24, 2012 16:21:18 GMT -6
Nobody else is available. It's absolutely essential to be one of "their people," so if you're from the next village over, there can be no crossover. To cross from the small town to the big one is a one-way door, you aren`t welcome back. The only jobs are the military base and the aluminum plant, so most men leave after high school, so kids graduate at 16 or 17 (HS ends in Gr 11, it's complicated) and turn around and start coaching on the basis of their playing careers, but once they finish CEGEP (again, it's complicated) they leave to find work, so the cycle continues The school has an insane athletic charter from the provincial government in the most half-baked plan you could imagine; the HC of the program is kind of a sociopath who thinks he'll parlay this job into a big-time gig, and he'll screw anyone who didn't play for him. He hijacked the youth league and put 14-15-16 year olds on staffs just to make sure to promote his team. Between him and his charter it's strangled what was a healthy regional league and a healthy club league, both of which are now dead or moribund. If you google "Saguenay inbreeding" you get 269,000 results. These are the first 5, they are all scholarly studies of the effects of inbreeding. It's not even intentional, but when the place was founded by 21 original settlers... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839125digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol78/iss4/7/content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=154030www.ingentaconnect.com/content/apl/tahb/1992/00000019/00000002/art00001informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03014469300002952Hopefully I get to move soon!
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Post by emptybackfield on Jul 28, 2012 21:19:14 GMT -6
Holy ****
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Post by coachmph on Sept 2, 2012 15:15:04 GMT -6
Common problem in Canada. Lots of coaches are either "daddy coaches" (self-explanatory) or "buddy coaches" (recent program grads or friends of the HC), occasionally "ex-pro coaches", who name-drop and have stories, but teach the way they played 10-40 years ago and consider it beneath them to attend a clinic and learn any new stuff.
We had one school stocked with ex-pro daddy coaches that got embarrassed on the field by a US school (that learned Canadian rules in less than 2 weeks) coached by a bunch of underpaid HS teachers who likely never played higher than D2.
As bad as the cliche speakers are, I'll nominate "back slappers" as even worse. They yell in practice instead of teaching, play favorites in practice instead of trying to develop all their players (if they can't run them off), and during a game, they slap the backs and buddy up to players as they come off the field and then watch the other unit play instead of talking to their unit about any adjustments or questions.
And I saw these types in the US as well as Canada. Nobody's immune. Hopefully things will change for thr better over time. Glad that CC is now free of the Zoo.
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jlt
Junior Member
Posts: 313
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Post by jlt on Sept 3, 2012 6:36:37 GMT -6
I am a HC with an inexperienced coaching staff. They all learn fast but they often take their lead from me. I am a sucker for shouting unhelpful phrases out of frustration or off a whim. So I've been doing alot of self improvement over the summer. As part fo it, the coaches are recieving a helpful guide as to what Im trying to change with how we interact with players. Alot of it is based on what I've read in this thread. Especially the ice cream bit!
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.Remember….. you either coached it that way or allowed it to happen. A lot of it is how I interact with players when they mess up. So I’ve identified a few choice phrases that I and some of the time you guys have used. And below each one a more constructive way of approaching it. “What the hell do you think you are doing?” “Talk to me. What happened” Said calmly as opposed to screaming. Gives the player a chance to perform self review and often identify what went wrong without you needing to blow up. ---------------------------------------------- “What a bad tackle.” “What you did is acceptable, but I’d prefer you to do it this way.” So yeh the guy made a tackle but it was pretty poor. He didnt put himself in danger but didnt really use correct form. Let him know that he needs to improve on form.
--------------------------------------------- “Catch the ball” “How comes you didn’t make that catch? Remember to work on the fundys and keep your hands up looking through the window” --------------------------------------------- “Block somebody!!” “You were struggling to find a block there. Who were you looking for and where did they end up?” Gives the lineman a chance to figure out why his guy was gone and was left with his thingy in his hand.
--------------------------------------------- “Get your head in the game” The player is obviously not thinking of ice cream and xbox when he is half a yard from a big dude ramming him in the {censored} every play. Try and find out why he is getting beat. “How comes you are getting beat, what is he doing?” -------------------------------------------- “Get low!” “Sink your hips” Get low will automatically force them to get their shoudlers and more importantly the head, low. We don’t want that. Shouting sink the hips will hopefully lead them to get lower while having their heads up. ------------------------------------------- Don’t refer to football as a war. It’s not war. War is horrible and people die. It’s more like a street fight, so punch them in the throat and smash them in the face real hard ------------------------------------------ It is physically impossible to give more than 100%. ------------------------------------------ Try not to use the word don’t. It is proven that using the word ‘don’t’ before a command often leads to it happening. So “Don’t go offside” increases the chances of going offside massively. Whereas “Watch the ball” or “Go on the ball” doesn’t cause them to jump. Use these phrases instead of “Don’t” ------------------------------------------ It’s not about who ‘wants’ it more. That phrase is {censored}. Remember how much we wanted it last season against [team redeacted]? I very much doubt we could have ‘wanted’ it more. In fact we wanted it more than both [team name redacted] and [team name redeacted] put together but we won those games by a combined 111-0.
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Post by coachmph on Sept 3, 2012 7:44:52 GMT -6
Very well put. Once attended a clinic featuring state champ coaches from MN. Instead of "don't get beat" to their secondary, they say "make a play".
When my unit comes off the field, I gather them up and talk to them...bench area or whatever's available. I ask them about how their opposite matches up with them. No screaming or cliches, just discussion.
My first 1.5 years of coaching, I was a yeller. It's how I was coached, and I'm ex-military. Eventually I got on to staffs that didn't yell...or yell cliches. In the past 8.5-9 years, when a player has a bad series or rep, when they come off I ask them how that play/rep happened the way it did and what they could do differently next time.
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Post by mattyg2787 on Sept 4, 2012 8:26:48 GMT -6
Thats a great point about the word don't. Its fairly simple concept relating to the subconscious. If I say dont think about baseball, what's the first thing you do.
If I say think about football, your not thinking about baseball right?
This applies to everything. The way your brain is wired if you use a negative comment, it will cause the problem to keep happening. So if a linemen is using his shoulder instead of his hands for example, if you keep saying "don't use your shoulder" when the guy stops thinking about techniques (ie. game day which is what you want) all his subconscious tells him is shoulder. If however you see this, tell him once why he shouldn't be shoulder blocking, then constantly harp on about "use your hands" then come game day, his subconscious will say "hands" This is also how muscle memory develops.
Sorry for the long post, and getting off topic, how the brain works is something interesting to me.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using proboards
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Post by John Knight on Sept 4, 2012 11:01:42 GMT -6
Hit somebody, dc! maybe the AC!!!!!
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 4, 2012 11:42:36 GMT -6
This is a personal favorite of mine. While this is a "famous" basketball movie, I have heard this out of football coaches at all levels. Usually more of fan thing but I've heard it from coaches. At least with "block somebody," those coaches are at least addressing a particular side of the ball. CLASSIC! I used "hit somebody" last week. The kid wasn't going to the wrong man or wiffing on his blocks, he was just slow, and I knew he had more. It didn't work though. I had to go up to the kid and tell him, "Hey, I don't want you to just hit him. I want you to hit him like you his [kid on our team's name]." Next play he gets a pancake.
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Post by fantom on Sept 4, 2012 12:04:01 GMT -6
This is a personal favorite of mine. While this is a "famous" basketball movie, I have heard this out of football coaches at all levels. Usually more of fan thing but I've heard it from coaches. At least with "block somebody," those coaches are at least addressing a particular side of the ball. CLASSIC! I used "hit somebody" last week. The kid wasn't going to the wrong man or wiffing on his blocks, he was just slow, and I knew he had more. It didn't work though. I had to go up to the kid and tell him, "Hey, I don't want you to just hit him. I want you to hit him like you his [kid on our team's name]." Next play he gets a pancake. Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with most of the quotes mentioned if they're used in the right context.
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Post by gdoggwr on Sept 4, 2012 12:57:27 GMT -6
We had a sophomore coach a couple years ago who would yell "PUUUUUSH!!!" during every... single... play... of the sophomore games. NEVER anything else, just PUUUUSH!!! Talk about your mindless coaching...
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 4, 2012 13:07:09 GMT -6
We had a sophomore coach a couple years ago who would yell "PUUUUUSH!!!" during every... single... play... of the sophomore games. NEVER anything else, just PUUUUSH!!! Talk about your mindless coaching... And you let that opportunity go? You let a high quality heckling opportunity go to waste
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Post by 33coach on Sept 4, 2012 13:13:09 GMT -6
What are some of the more common "mindless" coaching points/phrases you hear? You know, things that coaches repeat just because they might've heard them somewhere or because they don't know what else to say. "Catch the ball", after a guy drops a pass, and "get on top of the ball" are ones that come to mind. Brilliant coaching points in those right there. How do you "get on top" of a football? 'Go out and hit somebody!' 'Just block somebody' 'Get the ball' Those 3 are 3 that ive banned from my field. Because they are meaningless. Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards
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flingt
Junior Member
"We don't care how big or strong our opponents are as long as they're human.?
Posts: 311
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Post by flingt on Sept 5, 2012 11:15:25 GMT -6
Nobody else is available. It's absolutely essential to be one of "their people," so if you're from the next village over, there can be no crossover. To cross from the small town to the big one is a one-way door, you aren`t welcome back. The only jobs are the military base and the aluminum plant, so most men leave after high school, so kids graduate at 16 or 17 (HS ends in Gr 11, it's complicated) and turn around and start coaching on the basis of their playing careers, but once they finish CEGEP (again, it's complicated) they leave to find work, so the cycle continues The school has an insane athletic charter from the provincial government in the most half-baked plan you could imagine; the HC of the program is kind of a sociopath who thinks he'll parlay this job into a big-time gig, and he'll screw anyone who didn't play for him. He hijacked the youth league and put 14-15-16 year olds on staffs just to make sure to promote his team. Between him and his charter it's strangled what was a healthy regional league and a healthy club league, both of which are now dead or moribund. If you google "Saguenay inbreeding" you get 269,000 results. These are the first 5, they are all scholarly studies of the effects of inbreeding. It's not even intentional, but when the place was founded by 21 original settlers... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839125digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol78/iss4/7/content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=154030www.ingentaconnect.com/content/apl/tahb/1992/00000019/00000002/art00001informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03014469300002952Hopefully I get to move soon! Coach, seriously, we just need to go ahead and invade Canada. Also, you need to start a "coachhuey" type football board up there and call it "cclementfootball.com eh"
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Post by coachmph on Sept 5, 2012 11:58:42 GMT -6
Ahem. As a history teacher, let me remind you about the last attempted invasion of Canada. War of 1812. You occupied Toronto, we burned down the White House. Even all THAT wouldn't fix what Clement left behind at The Zoo.
And amen to the parrots/repeaters. When I was in the army, they used to see if we could explain/direct actions to the troops without having to step in and do the "do it like I do". It aided in understanding.
Opinions/thoughts?
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Post by fantom on Sept 5, 2012 12:24:03 GMT -6
Ahem. As a history teacher, let me remind you about the last attempted invasion of Canada. War of 1812. You occupied Toronto, we burned down the White House. Even all THAT wouldn't fix what Clement left behind at The Zoo. Well, if it means that we can get you to put the right number of people on the field and get the receivers to stand still, the way God intended them, it'd be a small price to pay. No doubt if we try to get an explanation of your kicking rules we'll get nothing more than name, rank, and serial number.
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 5, 2012 14:30:07 GMT -6
Pay fantom no mind, he's just feeling insecure about his small balls.
We had an American coach visit once, and the first 12-12 play he saw was a total mess. It took a while to figure out who should be on the field, guys ran on and off, then people couldn't figure out their splits and alignments, receivers running around, we finally get the play off and there's 6 receivers flying around the field, he just says to himself "Jesus Christ, they're f*ing EVERYWHERE!"
I heard news from The Zoo (always capitalised). They recently got pasted, but I'm told it wasn't their fault. The other team was stupid and had a stupid offense because they kept running the same play that The Zoo couldn't stop because they had a big kid nobody could tackle. Totally not even their fault, the other team shouldn't be allowed to run a play over and over again.
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Post by coachmph on Sept 5, 2012 23:03:17 GMT -6
fantom, mon ami, check the history of the harvard-McGill game. There are credible schools of thought that feel the 1869 game at Rutgers was more of a modified soccer game, and that McGill-harvard was much closer to what we play today. Also check the evolution of the rules to about 1913 or so...you'll be surprised by the similarities. And now I segue away from history and back to our original point. There is a difference between football coaching and football teaching. I think two things come to mind: 1) I have never felt I've known it all as a coach or a teacher. I'm always using resources (like this site, among others) to keep trying to improve as a coach. And I do the same as a teacher. I engage in professional development in both areas. Many of the "mindless coaches" either feel they know it all, or don't know enough and are not ready to seek that improvement, hence the cliches. 2) to repeat a favourite saying of mine, I don't teach in order to coach, or coach in order to teach, I coach because I teach. And I don't take either lightly. We can hope those who mindlessly coach will do so as well.
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Post by fantom on Sept 6, 2012 9:23:54 GMT -6
Pay fantom no mind, he's just feeling insecure about his small balls. C,mon man. I'm sensitive about that. How was I supposed to know that you can't ride a snapping turtle.
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Post by gdoggwr on Sept 6, 2012 11:48:59 GMT -6
We had a sophomore coach a couple years ago who would yell "PUUUUUSH!!!" during every... single... play... of the sophomore games. NEVER anything else, just PUUUUSH!!! Talk about your mindless coaching... And you let that opportunity go? You let a high quality heckling opportunity go to waste Dear sweet jebus, NO, we did not miss that opportunity. On an unrelated note that guy only lasted one year, I can't imagine why...
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 6, 2012 17:57:19 GMT -6
Pay fantom no mind, he's just feeling insecure about his small balls. C,mon man. I'm sensitive about that. How was I supposed to know that you can't ride a snapping turtle.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 11, 2012 7:47:16 GMT -6
It might not come out on this forum but I can be a rather sarcastic guy at times. I love to throw out these cliches from time to time because I can find myself to be rather amusing. ;D I got one that I picked up from a HC who is really a good coach, but he had some doosies. Most of the older kids know the routine, but the younger ones kind of look around with the WTF eyes in their helmets. The whole expression is, "What are you going to do today, are you going to just mildew or are you going to barbeque?" Of course I slang it up a bit and just yell "Watcha gonna do, mildew barbeque? Let's go!" Most of the time I just yell "Watcha gonna do" and the seniors respond with the rest. If you can't have a little fun what is the point? My personal favorite is 'Catch the ball!' It's like the kid should respond, "Oh, thanks Coach, I never realized that I need to do that when I run a curl route."
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Post by blb on Sept 11, 2012 8:52:21 GMT -6
We had the old both Guards pull on Trap happen yesterday.
Our Line coach (who's very bright, enthusiastic, and good), said to his erroneous charge, "You don't pull on that one."
Kid, who had already realized he was in the wrong, replied under his breath "Thanks, Coach."
I just let it go at that.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Jul 21, 2014 14:44:23 GMT -6
these are all good.
whenever a coach yells at players to get fired up/emotional i cringe. egging players on to talk trash to the other team is about as useful as nipples on a breastplate.
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Post by coach2013 on Jul 21, 2014 14:57:23 GMT -6
Pointing to the goal line and yelling "go! go! go!"
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