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Post by coachcb on May 18, 2012 9:32:16 GMT -6
I wanted to avoid hijacking another thread with this topic so here we go.
Basketball is a big deal at this school. But, most of that success isn't due to hard work or dedication. We are the biggest school in our class in the state and we play against schools that have a quarter of our population.. We've even lost to a school that has 40 kids and we started the year at 155.
Long story short, the current basketball HC doesn't enforce any attendance policy, whatsoever. The kids come and go, and basically think everyone is blessed with their presence when they show. The girls basketball HC is the same way. It is wrecking the other athletic programs in the school. They get 40+ kids out for basketball but we struggle to get 15 in the football program because the kids know we hold them accountable.
Early in the year, the track/cross country coach, volleyball coach, and I sat down with the AD and asked him if we could establish an umbrella attendance policy for all of the programs. The coaches would all sit down and come up with some sort of compromise. It seemed like a last recourse because the AD won't fire the basketball coach.
We were shot down immediately because he doesn't want to "micromanage". IMO, it has nothing to do with micromanaging. The AD doesn't want to step on the toes of the winning programs..
Thoughts?
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2012 9:42:55 GMT -6
I've said this before on the thread that you mentioned: I don't want somebody else making rules for my program.
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Post by mitch on May 18, 2012 9:53:16 GMT -6
I wouldn't be coaching long in a school that ran like that.
If you have coaches that don't make kids practice to play and the AD does nothing about it, the AD and said coaches should be fired.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 18, 2012 9:58:17 GMT -6
we have one in our county...Its like 4 unexcused and you can be dismissed from the team..the Ad's like it because they can open up a book abd say here it is..you are done..in fact inour county a coach can only suspend a kid and the ad is the only one that can dismiss him
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Post by coachcb on May 18, 2012 10:03:59 GMT -6
I've said this before on the thread that you mentioned: I don't want somebody else making rules for my program. But, what if it was a consensus among the all of the coaches? And, what if it would benefit your program? |
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Post by cqmiller on May 18, 2012 10:12:02 GMT -6
I have a problem in the same realm as you do, but not near as bad from what it sounds like...
We take roll at every team activity we do... Film, study-hall, weights, practice, team dinners, EVERYTHING. Attendance in the offseason is rewarded with 1st choice of jersey #'s for the upcoming season as well as the 1st choice of equipment at gear issue. Attendence during the season (or lack thereof) results in not lettering, missing quarters, missing games, and being kicked off the team.
I am the only coach who believes that attendance is directly responsible for winning and losing. Especially since some of the other sports (basketball & baseball especially) can have 1-2 "gamers" and win a lot of games. Kids are always trying to use "open gym" or other sport activities as excuses as to why they HAVE to miss football. The other sports don't seem to care who shows and who doesn't, but the kids want out of football because they actually have to lift weights at football, and actually run and work hard at football practice. I go to other sport practices and the kids are sitting around and goofing off more than half the time... no wonder why they would rather be there than sweating their butts off in the gym.
I will just keep plugging away and believe that in the end, the football program will turn the corner and become "the sport" at the school just because it will be the one that the kids truly care about the most. To me, I can't wrap my head around the bball coach not using attendance as a way to cut those 75 kids that tryout for bball but he only has 15 spots on the roster for. You would think he would have a 0-absences policy to make his life easier.
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2012 10:12:39 GMT -6
I've said this before on the thread that you mentioned: I don't want somebody else making rules for my program. But, what if it was a consensus among the all of the coaches? And, what if it would benefit your program? And what if it doesn't even though it's the consensus of the coaches. Be careful. Today it's the basketball coach's attendance policy. Fine and dandy. What if your policies come under fire? |
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Post by newhope on May 18, 2012 10:14:47 GMT -6
I really don't see how making an attendance rule for the entire athletic department improves the situation. It will be like every other rule--its got to have enforcement. If the coach doesn't enforce it, the kids still miss and now its worse because there is an actual rule in place that is being ignored. What is the AD supposed to do, come to every practice for every team and check attendance? Is he supposed to ask the coaches to turn in a daily attendance form?
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Post by coachcb on May 18, 2012 10:23:30 GMT -6
I really don't see how making an attendance rule for the entire athletic department improves the situation. It will be like every other rule--its got to have enforcement. If the coach doesn't enforce it, the kids still miss and now its worse because there is an actual rule in place that is being ignored. What is the AD supposed to do, come to every practice for every team and check attendance? Is he supposed to ask the coaches to turn in a daily attendance form? Well, if the AD won't fire him then he can check attendance seeing as he knows that basketball is the only sport that lets the kids run wild. I'm out of here in two weeks as is but it's interesting to see where other folks stand on it. |
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Post by blb on May 18, 2012 10:32:35 GMT -6
I understand where cb is coming from and can empathize - once coached at a place where Football and Basketball programs were only bastions of discipline in whole school.
But I don't want anybody dictating policies to me. What if the "consensus" allows kids less accountability-more leniency than you want?
Also we need to recognize that some situations, sports, or seasons are different.
I prefer to be able to establish my own policies and rules and be responsible for my own program. If kids coming from other sports have acquired "bad habits" don't want to GWTP, they can suffer the consequences.
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2012 10:45:55 GMT -6
I understand where cb is coming from and can empathize - once coached at a place where Football and Basketball programs were only bastions of discipline in whole school. But I don't want anybody dictating policies to me. What if the "consensus" allows kids less accountability-more leniency than you want? Also we need to recognize that some situations, sports, or seasons are different. I prefer to be able to establish my own policies and rules and be responsible for my own program. If kids coming from other sports have acquired "bad habits" don't want to GWTP, they can suffer the consequences. When you enforce a rule in class, don't you ever hear, "Miss Jones doesn't make us do that"? The universal answer is, "You're not in Miss Jones' class now". |
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Post by coachbuck on May 18, 2012 10:47:42 GMT -6
Coachcb as I said before I would not want an ad to implement this. Having said that it would be totally impossible to enforce. If the b ball coaches are that bad why would they not check the kids in and then let them go? I see no way of enforcing this rule.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 18, 2012 11:34:15 GMT -6
I understand where cb is coming from and can empathize - once coached at a place where Football and Basketball programs were only bastions of discipline in whole school. But I don't want anybody dictating policies to me. What if the "consensus" allows kids less accountability-more leniency than you want? Also we need to recognize that some situations, sports, or seasons are different. I prefer to be able to establish my own policies and rules and be responsible for my own program. If kids coming from other sports have acquired "bad habits" don't want to GWTP, they can suffer the consequences. When you enforce a rule in class, don't you ever hear, "Miss Jones doesn't make us do that"? The universal answer is, "You're not in Miss Jones' class now". Miss Jones will not be fired if her kids don't perform...Is so, she will rig the tests so they do.. |
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2012 12:46:51 GMT -6
When you enforce a rule in class, don't you ever hear, "Miss Jones doesn't make us do that"? The universal answer is, "You're not in Miss Jones' class now". Miss Jones will not be fired if her kids don't perform...Is so, she will rig the tests so they do.. And I won't be fired because of anything that happens in Miss Jones' class either. |
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Post by newhope on May 18, 2012 12:49:45 GMT -6
In my time, I have seen Miss Jones fired many times...or whatever term you want to use for her not coming back the next year.
CB,
If the AD isn't going to fire him, he sure as heck isn't going to check attendance for him. It's the ADs job to supervise sports. Its not the job of the other coaches. If what is going on is satisfactory to him, then there are only two lines of recourse: deal with it, or get out of there (as you are).
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