|
|
Post by tothehouse on Apr 12, 2012 15:09:57 GMT -6
How do you deal with a player who has done something significantly wrong, but did it off campus out of the school's juristidiction?
Let's say kid was using drugs and was caught by police.
I know that is a vague example and you'd need more details, but what is your general feeling of discipline when the event wasn't at school? And what if this wasn't the players first go around with the law?
|
|
|
|
Post by bluedevil4 on Apr 12, 2012 15:16:40 GMT -6
I think arranging some kind of sit-down between just you and the players would be really helpful. I think it would show a player how much you really care about him/other players. This would maybe motivate him to get help/accept help knowing that there are others out there who care. One way to go about it would be to maybe ask the parents, or whoever he currently lives with if you could just speak with him.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 12, 2012 15:27:03 GMT -6
It depends.
One player was caught dealing weed in a town 90 miles away from campus last year. He was 18, was busted by city police and it ended up in the paper. I booted him without discussion. The AD tried to approach me about it but I shut him down quick; I wouldn't have a drug dealer on my team. The kid was eventually kicked out of school.
Two players missed a practice because they were in tribal jail after getting caught drinking on the rez. I couldn't prove anything because the tribal police picked them up and it was swept under a rug. They were really tight-lipped about and no one could get any answers. I couldn't do anything about it; such is life on the rez. Both students are still in school. One is doing really well while the other is looking at repeating his senior year.
It's a crock of sh-t though; a student of mine was caught boozing it up off of the rez and he did a 5 days stint of out-of-school suspension.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Apr 12, 2012 17:18:13 GMT -6
What is in your conduct policy relating to this?
We have a part that deals with 'bringing negative attention to the program'. Around here, if the papers gest wind of the fact that a kid arrested for just about anything is part of a football program, THAT (the part of being in the program) will get mentioned in the paper.
Basically it is an automatic 3 strikes. Doesn't mean you are done for good, but you have to reach some significant expectation to get back in the progam.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 12, 2012 19:29:59 GMT -6
It depends. One player was caught dealing weed in a town 90 miles away from campus last year. He was 18, was busted by city police and it ended up in the paper. I booted him without discussion. The AD tried to approach me about it but I shut him down quick; I wouldn't have a drug dealer on my team. The kid was eventually kicked out of school. Two players missed a practice because they were in tribal jail after getting caught drinking on the rez. I couldn't prove anything because the tribal police picked them up and it was swept under a rug. They were really tight-lipped about and no one could get any answers. I couldn't do anything about it; such is life on the rez. Both students are still in school. One is doing really well while the other is looking at repeating his senior year. It's a crock of sh-t though; a student of mine was caught boozing it up off of the rez and he did a 5 days stint of out-of-school suspension. Do you have a dry reservation? or do they just bring kids in for underage drinking? |
|
|
|
Post by mholst40 on Apr 12, 2012 20:33:05 GMT -6
To me it depends on what your initial policy was. If you have a policy against this kind of behavior, follow your guidelines and give him the fitting punishment. If you haven't enacted a policy, it's going to be tough to punish the kid. Either way, sit him down and talk with him about how disappointed you are in his actions.
Our school district makes athlete's sign a policy prohibiting them from drinking, doing drugs or steroids while they are a part of a team. If they are caught, they can get suspended from extracurricular activities (athletics, clubs, dances, etc.) for 45 school days.
If a kid posts a picture of himself drinking on the weekends on his Facebook wall and admin. sees it, that athlete can get suspended. If law enforcement can back up the claim, he can get suspended.
|
|
zeroand24
Freshmen Member
The soft don't win championships
Posts: 52
|
Post by zeroand24 on Apr 13, 2012 6:42:57 GMT -6
This was the first situation I had to deal with as a new head coach.
My two best athletes, stud WR/FS & QB/CB, were involved in a robbery that resulted in one of them being shot in the leg. This was the week before the season started. They were arrested but since the individuals that were robbed were scum bag drug dealers the police dropped all charges. Our district has a policy that as long as a student has been arrested and has charges pending they are ineligible. After several great meetings with the parents, AD, principal, district AD and super i decided that i wasn't going to reinstate them to the team. This was not a popular decision and both players transfered and played at other schools. It really hurt us as far numbers and would have helped us get a few more wins but as a new coach I wasn't going to set that precedence.
Yeah and things at that school only continued on that path.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Apr 13, 2012 6:49:24 GMT -6
I think each situation is independent.....had a rising 9th drinking in school my first year....went to his parents (farmers) and had a good talk..the kid ended up getting counseling etc...was doing better..he ended up transfering to a military school..I think in the end it worked out best for the kid.
Not sure if this is part of the conversation, so if so let me know....We had 2 kids that were at a party last year and someone took a picture of them w/ a beer in their hand and sent it all over twitter..The principal suspended them from the team..yet one of the kids was allowed to be in the homecoming court...WTF
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 7:51:49 GMT -6
Most of the schools in my area, including my current program, have district-wide "athletic codes" so the HC wouldn't really get a say in the punishment other than enforcing what is in the code. And, these codes are year-long and apply to out-of-season as well. The most common example is alcohol. If a kid is caught drinking, the suspension for football is 3 games.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 13, 2012 8:01:24 GMT -6
Do you have a dry reservation? or do they just bring kids in for underage drinking? I work on a dry reservation but that doesn't mean much when you're talking about the kids of prominent, wealthy ranching families in the area. Nepotism is the name of the game down here. |
|
|
|
Post by mholst40 on Apr 13, 2012 10:32:14 GMT -6
Four years ago, we had our best player (who was a junior at the time) and had been in trouble for team discipline issues previously, get caught drunk at a school dance midway through the season. Our campus security who caught him did not report him to the school, but told our head coach.
After meeting as a staff, we decided to cut the kid loose. We thought it would be best for him long term. The following year, he was a stand up student athlete, one of our leaders and a the league Defensive MVP.
|
|
|
|
Post by pirate1590 on Apr 13, 2012 10:41:49 GMT -6
I myself never really drank in high school, but I did get a citation for underage drinking on St Patties Day in 04. It hurt me pretty badly that I was breaking the law, and i stopped drinking for a while after that. not the most difficult thing to do but the right thing. It allowed me to see perspective. If a good kid with a 3.7 in the classroom comes in caught drinking I will give him a second chance, but he sits for a game. If it happens again its 4 games and third your done. If a player is caught doing weed he is done period. I will allow occasional drinking but no drugs. Had to kick 3 players off for it. Had to kick a player off the team this year for slapping a girl in the hall, he was our best athlete but there are situations when you have to get rid of someone. If your guy is just doing something piddly-Fake ID- drinking he can have another chance but i dont budge on drugs.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 13, 2012 10:57:38 GMT -6
Do you have a dry reservation? or do they just bring kids in for underage drinking? I work on a dry reservation but that doesn't mean much when you're talking about the kids of prominent, wealthy ranching families in the area. Nepotism is the name of the game down here. I can't imagine that flying around here. The dry reservation, not the nepotism. |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 13, 2012 10:59:45 GMT -6
I myself never really drank in high school, but I did get a citation for underage drinking on St Patties Day in 04. It hurt me pretty badly that I was breaking the law, and i stopped drinking for a while after that. not the most difficult thing to do but the right thing. It allowed me to see perspective. If a good kid with a 3.7 in the classroom comes in caught drinking I will give him a second chance, but he sits for a game. If it happens again its 4 games and third your done. If a player is caught doing weed he is done period. I will allow occasional drinking but no drugs. Had to kick 3 players off for it. Had to kick a player off the team this year for slapping a girl in the hall, he was our best athlete but there are situations when you have to get rid of someone. If your guy is just doing something piddly-Fake ID- drinking he can have another chance but i dont budge on drugs. Why? What's the difference? |
|
|
|
Post by chopwood19 on Apr 13, 2012 11:07:00 GMT -6
No kidding.. hows alcohol get you three strikes but marijuana is one and done?.... In my opinion Id almost rather the kid smoke weed vs alcohol..
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 13, 2012 13:52:55 GMT -6
I can't imagine that flying around here. The dry reservation, not the nepotism. It doesn't really matter down here, the law doesn't do any good. Alcoholism rates are through the roof; triple the national average. Booze can't be served or sold on the rez but we have bars right on the edge of the border. It's a joke and it's not enforced. It has a seriously negative impact on the kids too. The kids live on a dry rez, they're told that it's illegal for everyone and that it's the bane of the tribe but the powers-that-be don't do anything when they get caught. It sends a really bad message. |
|
|
|
Post by ajreaper on Apr 13, 2012 14:09:19 GMT -6
I myself never really drank in high school, but I did get a citation for underage drinking on St Patties Day in 04. It hurt me pretty badly that I was breaking the law, and i stopped drinking for a while after that. not the most difficult thing to do but the right thing. It allowed me to see perspective. If a good kid with a 3.7 in the classroom comes in caught drinking I will give him a second chance, but he sits for a game. If it happens again its 4 games and third your done. If a player is caught doing weed he is done period. I will allow occasional drinking but no drugs. Had to kick 3 players off for it. Had to kick a player off the team this year for slapping a girl in the hall, he was our best athlete but there are situations when you have to get rid of someone. If your guy is just doing something piddly-Fake ID- drinking he can have another chance but i dont budge on drugs. alcohol is a drug and its no legal for high school kids to even have it much less drink it. i think its best the school and program have a plan already in place to address these things- takes emotion out of it. here is what you did here are the consequences. |
|
|
|
Post by tothehouse on Apr 13, 2012 14:52:38 GMT -6
Guys...the point though (aj) is when this happens off campus. You say, "go with the plan that's in place". That works when the kid is drunk at lunch on campus. If you are in season then it works. What if it's a football player who is not playing another sport and gets busted today, in the spring season, off campus? That is more of the question. The player is not under "your watch" right now. Can the school discipline him?
Again, scenario. Football player is smokin weed at a party tonight and gets busted by police. He isn't playing any other sport. Could you, as the football coach, discipline him? Kick him off the team? He isn't on the team yet anyway...? Right? I'm just asking here...I don't really know what our school would do.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 13, 2012 15:42:08 GMT -6
Guys...the point though (aj) is when this happens off campus. You say, "go with the plan that's in place". That works when the kid is drunk at lunch on campus. If you are in season then it works. What if it's a football player who is not playing another sport and gets busted today, in the spring season, off campus? That is more of the question. The player is not under "your watch" right now. Can the school discipline him? Again, scenario. Football player is smokin weed at a party tonight and gets busted by police. He isn't playing any other sport. Could you, as the football coach, discipline him? Kick him off the team? He isn't on the team yet anyway...? Right? I'm just asking here...I don't really know what our school would do. The school used to have a "24/7" policy where the kids could be disciplined for anything they did and were heavy handed with it. Unfortunately, they don't use that policy anymore.. There was some grumbling about legal action when I kicked the kid off the team for dealing weed. The school couldn't discipline him so they figured I couldn't either. But, he and his mom signed a contract and the athletic handbook where it states that discipline policies are at the coach's discretion. So, screw 'em. I would have quit before I had a kid on the team that got busted over a grand worth of weed on him. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 13, 2012 21:28:58 GMT -6
I can't imagine that flying around here. The dry reservation, not the nepotism. It doesn't really matter down here, the law doesn't do any good. Alcoholism rates are through the roof; triple the national average. Booze can't be served or sold on the rez but we have bars right on the edge of the border. It's a joke and it's not enforced. It has a seriously negative impact on the kids too. The kids live on a dry rez, they're told that it's illegal for everyone and that it's the bane of the tribe but the powers-that-be don't do anything when they get caught. It sends a really bad message. Alcoholism on the reservations is limited by the abject poverty and the extreme isolation (some of them make your place look urban), so huffing has become the bigger problem. But those schools don't have any sports, all their teachers are fresh grads who come up on 6-month contracts and promptly leave. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 22:37:40 GMT -6
Tothehouse, maybe I wasn't clear, but the policy I described in my last post would effect the situation you describe--it's a year-round, 24/7/365 "athletic code". So, if we had a player get busted tonight and he plays no other sports, he'd be facing a three-game suspension in the fall. Nothing more or less the coach can do about it. This policy, for better or for worse, does "kick" kids off, because some would rather not play at all then serve their suspension then come back.
To be honest, this is the only policy I've ever known, so I'm not sure what I'd do if I had to come up with punishment on my own.
|
|
|
|
Post by tothehouse on Apr 13, 2012 23:54:48 GMT -6
Tothehouse, maybe I wasn't clear, but the policy I described in my last post would effect the situation you describe--it's a year-round, 24/7/365 "athletic code". So, if we had a player get busted tonight and he plays no other sports, he'd be facing a three-game suspension in the fall. Nothing more or less the coach can do about it. This policy, for better or for worse, does "kick" kids off, because some would rather not play at all then serve their suspension then come back. To be honest, this is the only policy I've ever known, so I'm not sure what I'd do if I had to come up with punishment on my own. That is interesting coach. To be locked down completely as an athlete. Does the band or choir have something similar to that? How do the parents feel about something like that? Just asking because I don't know if that idea would float in the parts I live in. Interesting. Good discussion. |
|
|
|
Post by jlenwood on Apr 14, 2012 4:50:19 GMT -6
I am on the fence about some of the "off campus" rules that schools put on kids. I know this is a carrot and stick approach to keeping kids out of trouble, but at the same time I personally don't think it is any of the schools business what a kid does when he is away from school.
Having said that though, during a season of a sport the kid is playing, I think the rules are legit ways to keep kids out of trouble. I know this sounds contradictory, but I really have a problem with schools being so into a kids business away from campus.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Apr 14, 2012 7:04:15 GMT -6
I am on the fence about some of the "off campus" rules that schools put on kids. I know this is a carrot and stick approach to keeping kids out of trouble, but at the same time I personally don't think it is any of the schools business what a kid does when he is away from school. Having said that though, during a season of a sport the kid is playing, I think the rules are legit ways to keep kids out of trouble. I know this sounds contradictory, but I really have a problem with schools being so into a kids business away from campus. Remember coach, I believe we are talking about an "athletic code of conduct" not a "general population code of conduct". Athletics is a privilege, not a law given right to the students. I don't think the schools are keeping kids who get in trouble from taking their Spanish final. |
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Apr 14, 2012 7:22:14 GMT -6
I myself never really drank in high school, but I did get a citation for underage drinking on St Patties Day in 04. It hurt me pretty badly that I was breaking the law, and i stopped drinking for a while after that. not the most difficult thing to do but the right thing. It allowed me to see perspective. If a good kid with a 3.7 in the classroom comes in caught drinking I will give him a second chance, but he sits for a game. If it happens again its 4 games and third your done. If a player is caught doing weed he is done period. I will allow occasional drinking but no drugs. Had to kick 3 players off for it. Had to kick a player off the team this year for slapping a girl in the hall, he was our best athlete but there are situations when you have to get rid of someone. If your guy is just doing something piddly-Fake ID- drinking he can have another chance but i dont budge on drugs. Sounds a little too vague...surprised that your district administration allows such a policy. |
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Apr 14, 2012 7:32:10 GMT -6
Tothehouse, maybe I wasn't clear, but the policy I described in my last post would effect the situation you describe--it's a year-round, 24/7/365 "athletic code". So, if we had a player get busted tonight and he plays no other sports, he'd be facing a three-game suspension in the fall. Nothing more or less the coach can do about it. This policy, for better or for worse, does "kick" kids off, because some would rather not play at all then serve their suspension then come back. To be honest, this is the only policy I've ever known, so I'm not sure what I'd do if I had to come up with punishment on my own. That is interesting coach. To be locked down completely as an athlete. Does the band or choir have something similar to that? How do the parents feel about something like that? Just asking because I don't know if that idea would float in the parts I live in. Interesting. Good discussion. I have worked in some districts where any student involved in extracurricular activities, not just sports, could be disciplined for athletic code violations that occur off-campus and year-round. I have worked at other districts where athletic code violations only apply to athletes. Some of those districts only applied in-season, some of those policies were 24/7/365. As a head coach, I have always deferred to official district policy when confronted with a situation involving drugs, alcohol, or criminal activity, regardless of where it occurs. |
|
|
|
Post by jlenwood on Apr 14, 2012 7:46:29 GMT -6
"Remember coach, I believe we are talking about an "athletic code of conduct" not a "general population code of conduct". Athletics is a privilege, not a law given right to the students. I don't think the schools are keeping kids who get in trouble from taking their Spanish final."
Good point.
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Apr 14, 2012 8:00:26 GMT -6
As a head coach, I have always deferred to official district policy when confronted with a situation involving drugs, alcohol, or criminal activity, regardless of where it occurs. This is the way I operate also. |
|
|
|
Post by coachks on Apr 14, 2012 9:11:16 GMT -6
I'll play Devil's Advocate here.....
How many school employee's are under 24/7/365 supervision? Would you accept a job with those parameters? EVERYTHING you do makes you subject to suspension.
Lets look at what that really means. I know the focus here is on kids who get caught, but is that really fair? So one player gets busted drinking, but you KNOW that there were other students at that party and you know the kids he hangs out with (guilt by association). Unless you have your head buried in the sand, it's almost impossible to not over-hear some stuff you do not want to hear.
Are you going to suspend every student (from every sport) that you heard was at a party? Good luck (legally and with your administration).
Would you tolerate that in your personal life? Somebody said they saw you drinking at the bar, saw you get in your car and drive home. Now you are fired/suspended.
Of course not.
My personal opinion is that I wish schools would spend all the time, energy and resources they spend on kids who get in trouble at home on improving the school. It's an impossible fight, I personally think it's an over-reach of the role of education and I think it's somewhere between sanctimonious and hypocritical.
That's not the same as saying a coach should ignore these issues. Have a talk with the player, have a talk with the parents. If a player gets busted in-season, now he is easily punishable for missing practice/school.
But some uniform, CYA policy that treats students like pieces of property are BS. That doesn't help anybody, except the rep of some administrator who can talk about how tough he is on drinking/drugs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 12:55:44 GMT -6
tothehouse, there has been talk of making the "athletic code" an encompassing "extra-curricular" code, but talks on that never got very far.
|
|
