caseys8527
Junior Member
You are either coaching - or letting it happen
Posts: 296
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Post by caseys8527 on Apr 9, 2012 10:08:33 GMT -6
in your summer ball - how much focus do you place on installation? How much focus do you put on individual skill development?
With team camp/ 7 on 7/ and other various scrimmages it seems like the emphasis should be on install and then individual technique.
Just want to see what others do?
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2012 10:33:45 GMT -6
We do a few 7-on-7s during June and July, primarily to teach-review Pass Offense and Defense (mostly the latter).
We have a three-day camp last week in July (as close to start of practice as we can).
Our camp is pretty much like the first three days of No-Pads practice in August minus the Kicking Game and conditioning.
So it's equal parts installation and skill development but with emphasis on Offense.
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Post by jgordon1 on Apr 9, 2012 12:01:17 GMT -6
I would focus on install at this point and time
check out my tag
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Post by airman on Apr 9, 2012 13:16:03 GMT -6
i have a very different approach. I create athletes. like it or not the better your athletes it does not matter how sloppy their technique. a 4.4 rb can out run the most assignment sound defenders who are not as good of athletes.
a wr with great footwork can break the ankles of a good cover corner on pass routes.
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2012 13:20:21 GMT -6
Please share your secret of creating a 4.4 rb.
The question was in "summer ball...team camp/7 on 7..."etc.
Nobody said anything about not doing player development (SAQ).
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Post by airman on Apr 9, 2012 13:26:38 GMT -6
Please share your secret of creating a 4.4 rb. The question was in "summer ball...team camp/7 on 7..."etc. Nobody said anything about not doing player development (SAQ). [tr][/tr] why you do not have at least one guy on your team that can run 4.4? |
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2012 13:30:05 GMT -6
why you do not have at least one guy on your team that can run 4.4? Not unless they know a short cut. I have NEVER had a kid who ran 4.4. Obviously I'm doing something wrong. |
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jlc
Freshmen Member
Posts: 53 
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Post by jlc on Apr 9, 2012 13:41:06 GMT -6
Have had one kid who ran a laser timed 4.4 in 15 years... Of course he was a junior in college by the time he did it. I would love to know the secret to turning good high school athletes into world class speedsters as well...
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 9, 2012 13:43:56 GMT -6
Please share your secret of creating a 4.4 rb. The question was in "summer ball...team camp/7 on 7..."etc. Nobody said anything about not doing player development (SAQ). [tr] [/tr] why you do not have at least one guy on your team that can run 4.4? [/quote] A REAL 4.4....or a "4.4" Since only 34 of the 230+ guys at the NFL combine ran bettter than a 4.49 this year.... Also airman, I am curious why you posted your comment as an apparent either/or situation. How does your creation of athletes preclude either installing schematics or individual skill development. |
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Post by pvogel on Apr 9, 2012 14:29:01 GMT -6
Back to the original question id prefer to do install in the spring and summer. Mostly because I find it really hard to teach proper technique at most positions without pads. QBs, DBs, and WRs can do some fundamental stuff but otherwise i hate teaching blocking and tackling without pads.
So I use spring and summer non pad time to perfect our everyday drills and perfect our alignment and assignments.
It is also a good time for agility/athletic type circuits.
and for lifting of course.
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Post by airman on Apr 9, 2012 14:56:37 GMT -6
why you do not have at least one guy on your team that can run 4.4? Not unless they know a short cut. I have NEVER had a kid who ran 4.4. Obviously I'm doing something wrong. train them like a track sprinter by using overspeed training. |
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Post by airman on Apr 9, 2012 14:59:57 GMT -6
[/tr] why you do not have at least one guy on your team that can run 4.4? [/quote] A REAL 4.4....or a "4.4" Since only 34 of the 230+ guys at the NFL combine ran bettter than a 4.49 this year.... Also airman, I am curious why you posted your comment as an apparent either/or situation. How does your creation of athletes preclude either installing schematics or individual skill development. [/quote] because it takes time to develop sprinter style athletes and most coach would rather work on football skills(which makes sense) then athletic skills. most coaches I know would not dedicate 3 hours per week to speed skills and sprint training. most want weights and football skills. Yes I have had some legit 4.4 guys. I ran a legit 4.52 electronically timed at the university of Nebraska back in the day. |
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jlc
Freshmen Member
Posts: 53
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Post by jlc on Apr 9, 2012 15:38:47 GMT -6
Not to hijack the thread but...
We use an overspend treadmill 2x per week during summer workouts which are run by our oc/head track coach who was a d2 all American 100, 200 and decathlete. The other day they are doing track workouts. Each day they lift. In addition we have a phy Ed class in the am that is an hour and a half 3x per week and includes the same coaches training them in running and lifting. Track team has won state three out of the last 6 years. Have had over a dozen kids go d1 track in the last 15 years.
Legit 4.4 in high school is ridiculously rare.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 9, 2012 15:49:36 GMT -6
Not to hijack the thread but... We use an overspend treadmill 2x per week during summer workouts which are run by our oc/head track coach who was a d2 all American 100, 200 and decathlete. The other day they are doing track workouts. Each day they lift. In addition we have a phy Ed class in the am that is an hour and a half 3x per week and includes the same coaches training them in running and lifting. Track team has won state three out of the last 6 years. Have had over a dozen kids go d1 track in the last 15 years. Legit 4.4 in high school is ridiculously rare. Not everyone agrees www.elitefts.com/documents/gimmick.htm To get back on the original subject, I think pvogel has a good take on the topic. You can practice SOME fundamentals and skill development, but football is a game played with equipment, and many of those sills require the equipment to be worn to develop them. That said, I can see a benefit to having each WR catch 150 balls a day in summer... rather than running endless routes on air. |
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Post by newt21 on Apr 9, 2012 15:53:10 GMT -6
I prefer to dabble in both. We have an indy period each workout for half the time, then we work on our base concepts for the other half of the time. Who says you can't do both? You can work on any football skill without pads as long as you break it down into chunks and are smart about it. Tackle drills? No problem, we just tackle the sled or tackling dummies. You can always have them work on their form with a partner, simple fit stuff.
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 9, 2012 16:31:44 GMT -6
We are not allowed "Spring Football"...
Only allowed to do strength and conditioning as team activities (non-mandatory). Drill work can be done but only 3 players in a drill at a time. We do all skill development until about a month prior to 7on7. We then have position group meetings (again, non-mandatory) where we install our personnel groups and basic pass plays.
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Post by hback41 on Apr 9, 2012 16:37:39 GMT -6
What state cqmiller?
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 9, 2012 16:38:58 GMT -6
UTAH
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2012 17:05:19 GMT -6
4.4 is nice but over 80% of movement in a football game is non-linear and dependent on visual as well as auditory cues.
Spending that much time on training "sprinter style" is counter-intuitive for football, especially when each kid has a genetic ceiling - and none of mine has been, is, or I dare say will be 4.4.
Did have one young man who finished second in the state D-I 100-meter finals, ran a 4.49 hand held on our track. He is the all-time leading rusher and scorer in a league that produced Lamarr Woodley and Mark Ingram among others.
But that had very little to do with training protocols. Otherwise, we would have more kids similar to him.
To trot out (pun intended) an old but true expression - I don't care how much you train a donkey, he ain't going to win the Derby.
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Post by davishfc on Apr 9, 2012 17:34:35 GMT -6
We focus on installation during the summer and look to emphasize technique once we're suited up when practices begin. For offense, we want our players to understand "who" to block then we'll teach them "how" to block. Alignment and assignment...then technique. Just our philosophy. We do two-day full days of camp the last week of July to be the culmination of installation done throughout the summer.
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Post by coachks on Apr 9, 2012 17:49:42 GMT -6
Overall, offensive installation is the primary goal of summer work.
If the offense is ready to play by day 1 of pads (from an installation standpoint), it really makes things a lot easier. The tempo of practice improves and you get a lot more reps. This lets the defense get more work and makes defensive installation a lot easier. Broken plays hurt the defensive practice just as much as the offensive practice in that early period. Lineman that pull slow, blow assignments and plays that hit too slow allow the defense to get away with sloppy reads and technique. An offense that can play makes the defense get up to speed (or, get beaten like mule).
Defensively, the most important thing in the summer is formation recognition. If the defense is slow to align, or is misaligned, that hurts offensive practice. The defense needs to be able to align to any formation (our) offense is going to throw at them during doubles so we can get quality practice in.
I like to introduce a good chunk of my drills during the summer as well. That way, I don't have to waste practice time teaching how to perform a drill during practice. Ditto with practice tempo. It should be ingrained during our summer work.
In Michigan we get 9 days (IIRC) of 7 on 7 work and 3 days of "team" camp. Then we have 3 non-padded days to open doubles. If we can end that period with the offense installed, the defense able to line-up to everything and our kids ready to practice than we are in pretty good shape.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 9, 2012 18:57:06 GMT -6
We have no spring but....we have no limits on time we can spend with kids in the offseason. So around here as long as I have been playing or coaching during July it's 3 days a week of football workouts. Lift then hit the field for an hour and a half. Back in the day it was no equipment, then just helmets, NOW we can go in shells all summer with no direct player to player contact. So we are basically running a regular practice those 3 nights a week in July. We do fundamentals and insertion.
It has just been the last two years in shells but it has put us to the point where we are seriously thinking of cutting back to one practice a day the second week of full pads.
On a side note if you can make yours guys run 4.4 I would love to learn how because we must be doing something wrong...
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Post by coachcb on Apr 10, 2012 7:49:17 GMT -6
Equals parts fundamentals and installation, at least on offense. It's a little difficult to get the kids running a play crisply if they're struggling to execute the basics. Defense as d-mn mainly fundamentals with the basic concepts rolled in.
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