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Post by John Knight on Feb 22, 2012 11:49:49 GMT -6
How many of you have seen this study? www.sbes.vt.edu/nid.php At the Glazier in cincy last week we listened to the Xenith guys extoll their new X2 and I would like to know if any of you have tried them. |
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Post by coachhart on Feb 22, 2012 11:58:45 GMT -6
We swear by the Revo Speeds - the vast majority of our new helmets are of that variety. We haven't used any Xenith's yet so I'd be intrigued to hear as well.
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Post by veerman on Feb 22, 2012 12:08:23 GMT -6
I'm a fan of the DNA. Like the speeds, but different parts kept breaking and they do not use standard helmet accessory pieces, so don't think they are a good investment unless you buy multiple, but if you had a grant or could just straight afford a bunch of them then yeah Speeds are great. Best bang for the buck IMO is the DNAs though.
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red
Freshmen Member
Posts: 71
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Post by red on Feb 22, 2012 12:17:45 GMT -6
We had some Xeniths last year, Some kids liked them some did not. However the way the chinstraps work you better have some extras around, cause if they break you are out of luck. And it is not a quick fix in the middle of the game to repair a broken chinstrap. Also have you asked about the reconditioning aspect. I might be wrong but they dont recondition them. You will have to have some place else recondition for you. And I am not sure I want someone else messing with that chinstrap / cable system??
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 22, 2012 12:41:48 GMT -6
I appreciate that used VSR4's are the control, because that's what everyone wore for 15 years, but it seems unfair to give it a 1 star and compare it directly to brand new current-generation models.
Our youth league wears nothing but poorly fitted, non-adjustable Adams A2000, with a mish-mash of cheekpads that you have to force in. You often see kids with two different sized cheekpads and a crooked helmet. I think the kids might actually be safer without the helmets, at elast then they're aware that they aren't protected.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 22, 2012 13:08:11 GMT -6
We had some Xeniths last year, Some kids liked them some did not. However the way the chinstraps work you better have some extras around, cause if they break you are out of luck. And it is not a quick fix in the middle of the game to repair a broken chinstrap. Also have you asked about the reconditioning aspect. I might be wrong but they dont recondition them. You will have to have some place else recondition for you. And I am not sure I want someone else messing with that chinstrap / cable system??
The xenith rep says the X2 has a little different chinstrap and less problems and they do recondition because the bragged about how each bonnet and shell were coded so you always had the same year of compnents unlike other recoditioners who don't code the parts.
This is all from his sales pitch so it could be all BS.
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Post by tango on Feb 22, 2012 14:48:52 GMT -6
Which helmet has produced the least concussions according to independent studies?
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 22, 2012 16:15:19 GMT -6
I don't believe anybody has done a real study with real players, just lab tests on impact transfer. There would be too many variables to do a real study, I think.
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Post by mholst40 on Feb 22, 2012 16:28:17 GMT -6
There is not a good helmet on the market for preventing concussions IMO.
We had more concussions this year than any previous year and every kid who got one wore a Riddell Revolution Speed. I don't know what that means. Are we diagnosing concussions more often or are kids hitting each other harder?
All I know is that the majority of our kids want a Speed above all else and they are way more comfortable than the old school Riddell VSR or the Schutt Air.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 22, 2012 19:37:48 GMT -6
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 22, 2012 21:46:49 GMT -6
There are definitely studies on the effects of concussions, but nothing really valuable on the usefulness of new helmets in a real-world setting.
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Post by tango on Feb 22, 2012 21:56:37 GMT -6
If concussions are due to the brain moving back and forth, does it matter if you buy the more expensive helmets?
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 22, 2012 23:13:32 GMT -6
Not to be snide, but yes. A good helmet has a hard shell to diffuse the impact and prevent skull fractures, and a soft interior to slow the head gradually. A concussion is the brain bruising when it bounces off the inside of the skull, which occurs when the skull changes velocity to quickly for the brain to keep up. That's why so many concussions occur when a head hits a hard surface; the skull stops immediately while the brain is still moving down at full speed. A good helmet has more effective padding that slow down the head more gradually.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 23, 2012 6:19:56 GMT -6
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Post by John Knight on Feb 23, 2012 6:23:35 GMT -6
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 23, 2012 7:01:28 GMT -6
The claims are based off lab tests off the helmets. You put a fake head with a fake brain full of sensors inside the helmet, then you whack it a bunch of times in a bunch of different ways, and you see which head had sharper acceleration forces, which is what is going to cause your brain to hit your skull, or the other way around, cause your skull to hit your brain if you were standing still when you got hit.
As for combat helmets, there's a little secret about combat helmets that many people don't realize: Theyd don't stop bullets. At least, no combat helmet will ever stop a rifle bullet making square contact, there's just too much energy, the helmet would become too heavy. They might stop pistol rounds at longer ranges; they stop a lot of shrapnel, which is very, very good; and they can definitely save you by deflecting a glancing blow from a rifle bullet. But mostly, they're like battlefield bike helmets. Combat tends to suffer from confusion, and not just the grand sort. There's a lot of plain old discombobulation. Guys run the wrong way, crash into each other, trip over stuff, whatever. The helmet keeps you from hitting your head off stuff in those situations.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 23, 2012 7:39:57 GMT -6
www.atsuconcussion.com/concussion-prevention.htmlExactly, even in football the helmet is not made to prevent concussions, that is what the lawsuit is about. Claiming helmets reduce concussions. Helmets are meant to prevent catastophic damages like skull fracture. www.bu.edu/cste/files/2011/07/Daneshvar-et-al.-Helmets-and-Mouth-Guards.-2011.pdfMany of the studies on the protective effect of equipment on concussive risk have been complicated by retrospective, nonrandomized study designs. Individuals may choose to wear specialized protective equipment based on previous injury history, which has been shown to increase risk of future injuries, or because of a risky playing style. The preponderance of evidence seems to indicate that helmets and mouth guards provide a significant benefit in protecting against many catastrophic head, neck, and orofacial injuries. However, there is not yet significant evidence to advocate their effectiveness in preventing concussion. Nonetheless, additional research is needed both in the laboratory to improve equipment design and on the field to verify findings epidemiologically. Although newer equipment remains a promising potential tool in minimizing concussion severity and incidence, other methods such as rule changes, improved concussion education, and proper coaching and training may prove more effective in the immediate future.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 23, 2012 7:40:46 GMT -6
bjsportmed.com/content/43/Suppl_1/i56.abstractResults: In total, 51 studies were selected for review. A comparison between studies was difficult due to the variability in research designs, definition of concussion, mouthguard/helmet/headgear/face shield types, measurements used to assess exposure and outcomes, and variety of sports assessed. The majority of studies were observational, with 23 analytical epidemiologic designs related to the subject area. Selection bias was a concern in the reviewed studies, as was the lack of measurement and control for potentially confounding variables. Conclusions: There is evidence that helmet use reduces head injury risk in skiing, snowboarding and bicycling, but the effect on concussion risk is inconclusive. No strong evidence exists for the use of mouthguards or face shields to reduce concussion risk. Evidence is provided to suggest that full facial protection in ice hockey may reduce concussion severity, as measured by time loss from competition
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Feb 23, 2012 8:02:12 GMT -6
In the world we live in, with these articles out there, it is almost impossible in my opinion to put a kid in a helmet that is not the top-rated helmet in a study.
All a parent has to say is that you didn't put their child in the safest available equipment.
Use the word SAFETY to an admin. and they will usually open their wallets a little wider.
For that reason, I would buy nothing other than a Revo, or Revo Speed.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 23, 2012 8:14:20 GMT -6
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Post by tango on Feb 23, 2012 10:18:40 GMT -6
At a seminar on concussions and a coach states that he bought 16 speed helmets and all his concussions occurred with players using the speed helmet. $240 compared to $170 is there any reason to buy the $240 lid. The Dr. said, I do not know and we do not have any studies that I know of.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 23, 2012 11:02:05 GMT -6
A specific study to show that a more expensive helmet will prevent more concussions?
No one knows if those concussions were much less severe because of the better helmets or not, or if they actually prevented some concussions. There is no way to do that study.
Some years kids get more concussions and more severe injuries than others.
Kind of like the old question, do knee braces prevent injuries or increase ankle injuries?
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