|
|
Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2012 13:21:18 GMT -6
Our school's academic coach and myself were pondering a question today because I hold my players more accountable than most other programs by having study tables, dealing with behavior issues, and so on. Our academic coach said one of the other coaches in the building said if they are eligible and don't miss practice he isn't going to hold them to any higher standard.
What standard do you hold your athletes to in the classroom and around the school behavior and academic wise?
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Feb 15, 2012 13:37:25 GMT -6
Our school's academic coach and myself were pondering a question today because I hold my players more accountable than most other programs by having study tables, dealing with behavior issues, and so on. Our academic coach said one of the other coaches in the building said if they are eligible and don't miss practice he isn't going to hold them to any higher standard. What standard do you hold your athletes to in the classroom and around the school behavior and academic wise? If they are eligible and don't miss practice. |
|
|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Feb 15, 2012 13:54:08 GMT -6
If you are earning below a 70% in any class I'm talking to you. What this discussion means and where it goes depends on the kid, the class, and the reason for the grade, but we're having the discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by tigeroption on Feb 15, 2012 14:01:51 GMT -6
During season any grade below a 70% in any class means mandatory study hall before school with me. Any discipline problems the Principal will handle and we will also have extra stuff after practice for them to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigm0073 on Feb 15, 2012 14:09:47 GMT -6
As a head coach here is where I stand -
Behavior - When it comes to this I do not "play"... I am a stickler about behavior and demand it. I look at my players like my kids. They are a reflection of me. If they are disruptive in class, disrespectful to teachers, cutting class..... It is on me... I will not allow it!
Grades - They must maintain good academic standing. If not Grade sheets and suspensions.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachfd on Feb 15, 2012 16:34:58 GMT -6
We have used a series of "Incentive" program and other academic/behavior/character development programs in the past.
They've worked very well, as our GPA's increased, disciplinary problems decreased, school attendence went up, and overall group morale and attitudes improved. There are a number of ideas and programs that we used, that I have attached in a .pdf.
"The Champions Club" has been really successful in the past for us.
(It's on pages 8-10 of the attachment.) It rewards things like positive attitude, attendance, good grades, reliability and accountability, etc.
While these are all things that "should be done anyway" ... we all know that they're often not. After all, kids are kids, and will sometimes do dumb things. So, the more we can do to help get them squared away, the better it makes our own situation... we shave-off a lot of the potential problems we might otherwise end up dealing with in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Feb 15, 2012 17:31:19 GMT -6
Let me clarify what I said earlier.
We work to keep our kids straight academically and behaviorally. We check grades and handle behavior problems. BUT
If you're talking about sitting kids in-season who meet eligibility standards? No.
|
|
z
Junior Member
Posts: 332
|
Post by z on Feb 16, 2012 5:17:08 GMT -6
@ Coach FD. This is a great piece. Glad that I downloaded it, and more importantly, I READ IT! Great "blueprint" for what can and must be done with today's high school players. Great post!
|
|
|
|
Post by bigm0073 on Feb 16, 2012 8:04:10 GMT -6
As Coach FB said.. I agree... When your teams GPA goes up your discipline/attendance issues go down. What I have found going into my 9th year as a head coach is players with low GPA's at the schools I teach at have them because of a lack of focus, poor work habits, lack of initiative/drive and overall inability to finish what they start. IMO this translates to the football field.
Last year I had two players play for me with over 4.0 GPA. Both captains (QB and MLB). They led our team. Both were under 6 feet, both under 200 lbs and neither of them great athletes. But hard working kids, good grades and HIGH, HIGH Character kids.
To me a players GPA says a lot about them as a person and the ability to "trust them".
One thing too is players with higher GPAs and are smarter allow us to do things with them that are multiple and give us an advantage.
Example - Our Middle Linebacker made 95 % of our calls this year for our defense. Lot of check with me's. From weekly film study and analaysis with our DC. He had us in the right fronts, slant, coverage 95 % of the time.
My experience also with players with low gpa's = (below a 2.0)
1. Poor work habits.. Missing weight room
2. Missing practice.. always has an excuse why they need to miss something.
3. Discipline is an issue
4. They screw you IMO. When you need them most they do something STUPID in class.. Curse out a teacher during game day (this has happened to me in the past). Walk out of class the day before a game and tell a teacher the f off)... Get into a fight at lunch the day of a game... Steal something the day of a game or before...
Selfish acts and put their needs before the team.
In all of my years as a coach players with higher GPAs (2.5 - 3.0 or higher) are less likely to do this.. Players with a 3.2 or higher have been players we have had a lot of success with. THey really get it!
Sorry for the rant but the success of the two programs I have been a head coach at is directly connected to this.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachirish on Feb 16, 2012 19:15:50 GMT -6
I gave my admn a roster of the team. Anytime any one of my players are called to the assistant principals office I get an email from her telling me about the player who was in trouble. That day at the end of practice EVERYBODY has extra conditioning for that player getting in trouble. After a few times of that extra conditioning the players start to police theirselves and its no longer an issue. I not only do that for getting in trouble at school but things such as back talk at practice or loafs that I count on film or at practice. This is one of the best things I have ever done as a coach.
|
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Feb 16, 2012 20:09:11 GMT -6
We have used a series of "Incentive" program and other academic/behavior/character development programs in the past. They've worked very well, as our GPA's increased, disciplinary problems decreased, school attendence went up, and overall group morale and attitudes improved. There are a number of ideas and programs that we used, that I have attached in a .pdf. "The Champions Club" has been really successful in the past for us. (It's on pages 8-10 of the attachment.) It rewards things like positive attitude, attendance, good grades, reliability and accountability, etc. While these are all things that "should be done anyway" ... we all know that they're often not. After all, kids are kids, and will sometimes do dumb things. So, the more we can do to help get them squared away, the better it makes our own situation... we shave-off a lot of the potential problems we might otherwise end up dealing with in the future. Coach, this is excellent! I like that it both praises and rewards positive team members while disciplining negative members. It's hard to reward the ones doing it right, you've developed a solid system for doing that. Consider it borrowed. |
|
|
|
Post by PSS on Feb 16, 2012 21:10:59 GMT -6
I'm in a unique situation here. We still use corporal punishment for behavior problems. If an athlete is a behavior problem in class they get a "pop" from a coach. Needless to say we don't have many discipline problems.
BTW, this is a school policy also. If it happens to be an athlete they are referred to us.
|
|
|
|
Post by k on Feb 17, 2012 6:01:59 GMT -6
We also beat our players who are out of line. In fact second offense is a hand grenade down the throat. We find that violence against children is the most effective way to modify their behavior.
In all seriousness our standards are higher than general students when it comes to effort and behavior but not for straight grades. I've had kids who got C-s in low level classes who had me thrilled with that while I've had kids with B+s or A-s in AP classes that I had to come down on hard. In fact we're sending a pair of kids to play at Ivys this year that in both cases I had to have serious discussions about effort in class as underclassmen. It is all about effort. If they are doing their best that is all I can ask. I expect perfect behavior and citizenship both in the community at large and in the building. For the most part our kids are trying to avoid letting us down and are outstanding citizens in the building. Don't need to threaten them with violence to accomplish our goals.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Feb 17, 2012 10:09:16 GMT -6
Yea, not that we had a lot of problems around here but I have actually sat in the classroom of a couple of kids that were giving a teacher a hard time
|
|
|
|
Post by coachsticks on Feb 17, 2012 13:33:50 GMT -6
I'm in a unique situation here. We still use corporal punishment for behavior problems. If an athlete is a behavior problem in class they get a "pop" from a coach. Needless to say we don't have many discipline problems. BTW, this is a school policy also. If it happens to be an athlete they are referred to us. A coaches dream, no doubt. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Feb 19, 2012 10:51:03 GMT -6
What the heck is an "academic coach"?
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Feb 21, 2012 13:28:36 GMT -6
1. Grade checks every couple of weeks. I am in a small school and it doesn't take much for me to figure out how the kids are doing in school. If they have anything below a C, they run their a$$es off until that grade comes up. I would sit them for a game but numbers don't really allow me to do so.
2. If they get in school suspension on Monday-Thursday, they run their a$$es off. If they get it Friday, they don't play. I don't care if it's a half a period, they don't play. One day of out of school suspension and they don't play that week. Two days and they're gone from the team. This is all relative too; I had a kid who was kicked out for a day because he sexually harassed a girl. I found out the specifics (nasty little sh-t) and I booted him, no questions asked.
3. I have two preps as well and I wander the halls when I can and I catch football players screwing around. They run for it.
Honestly, if you're in a position to hold the kids to a higher standard, friggin do it.
|
|
wvcoach
Junior Member
[F4:@coach_wellman]
Posts: 288
|
Post by wvcoach on Feb 23, 2012 20:33:33 GMT -6
How lenient are you on your kids during practice? What are your disciplinary methods, other than running their ***** off? I feel I can sometimes be too easy going, which can result in disaster at the middle school level. Had a really rough workout today in terms of focus and behavior and had to run our first gassers of the year.
|
|
|
|
Post by woodyboyd on Feb 24, 2012 7:56:30 GMT -6
How lenient am I? Not at all. WTF you mean lenient? No. Lets see - last year first day of practice we had 9 kids late. So I calmly told them "guys, this isn't going to work, we have to be here on time. This is a friendly warning, next time won't be so friendly." Very next day - 13 kids late. I didn't say a word. Kids came out for warm-up I lined them all up along the sideline, told them to lay down parallel with the sideline...and I rolled them...like you would roll in the grass as a kid. I rolled them across the field, then we ran a gasser (width of the field twice), then I rolled them back, then ran another gasser, then we went straight into our conditioning circuit for the next 25 minutes. No one quit - I was surprised by that. Some stopped like they weren't going to keep rolling...mistake. I told them "go home, don't come back, we DO NOT NEEEED YOU." No one was late the rest of camp. I rolled them again once we were in season because after 8 days of school 3 players had 5 tardies to class. I rolled the entire team and announced that Jim, Jeff and John couldn't figure out how to get to class on time, and since the behavior of 3 reflected on all, we all should experience the effects. - I did have to send out an email to the staff and tell them that those 3 students may have some "assistance" getting to class for a few days. - I was smart to send that email, apparently all 3 were escorted to class everyday for 2 weeks. (it's like Ron White said "I don't know how many it would have taken to whoop my @ss...but I knew how many they were going to use). ~one of the kids was late 3 times to first period. His mother brings him to school. After we rolled for it she catches me after practice and tells me she's sorry, it's not his fault, she's the reason he was late. I told her "I don't care why he's late. Late is late. But if you can't get him to school on time then maybe you should be the one rolling." I'm sure that got me crossed off the christmas card list but he hasn't been late to school again this year. Later in the year there was some screwing around at practice. I told them to knock it off a few times, they didn't so we ran some gassers - 3 of them. First one we did 5 up/downs at every intersection. So 5 to start, 5 at the first hash, 5 at the 2nd hash, 5 on the other sideline, and 5 on each of them both trips across the field. Then the 2nd gasser they had 5 pushups at each intersection and on the 3rd 5 situps at each. That's pretty much the only 3 things I had to do this year for any kind of discpline things. After the rolling experience all I had to do was say "guys, I'm asking you nicely...next time I won't be asking" and someone would always say "yea, next time we will be rolling." and after the "Happy Trail" (my nickname for the gassers with up/downs, pushups and situps) we didn't have any more grap@ssin at practice. There is a running aspect to anything in football, but we don't just take off and run to run. They didn't sign up for cross country. When I first began coaching, we commonly referred to those as "breakfast rolls" because we would bring the kids who were tardy in at 6:30am and roll until we see breakfast. It's been a long time since we've ever had to do those again. Plus, we have a lot of hills around our school campus and a few rolls down those get breakfast up in a hurry. |
|
|
|
Post by blb on Feb 24, 2012 8:15:07 GMT -6
dc, I love reading your posts.
If you ever write a book I'll be first in line.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2012 9:47:35 GMT -6
How lenient are you on your kids during practice? What are your disciplinary methods, other than running their ***** off? I feel I can sometimes be too easy going, which can result in disaster at the middle school level. Had a really rough workout today in terms of focus and behavior and had to run our first gassers of the year. I'm not a big punishment guy unless we're talking about disciplinary issues in school or grades. I handle on the field bullsh-t pretty simply; "GO SIT AND THE STANDS AND BE A SPECTATOR. COME BACK WHEN YOU WANT TO BE A PLAYER! DON'T TAKE REZ TIME DECIDING EITHER!" It's their choice; come back within a reasonable amount of time or go away for good. I had in the stands until the end of practice and I told him that he made his decision and he needed to get his a$$ off of my field for good. |
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Feb 24, 2012 11:15:16 GMT -6
How lenient are you on your kids during practice? What are your disciplinary methods, other than running their ***** off? I feel I can sometimes be too easy going, which can result in disaster at the middle school level. Had a really rough workout today in terms of focus and behavior and had to run our first gassers of the year. I'm not a big punishment guy unless we're talking about disciplinary issues in school or grades. I handle on the field bullsh-t pretty simply; "GO SIT AND THE STANDS AND BE A SPECTATOR. COME BACK WHEN YOU WANT TO BE A PLAYER! DON'T TAKE REZ TIME DECIDING EITHER!" It's their choice; come back within a reasonable amount of time or go away for good. I had in the stands until the end of practice and I told him that he made his decision and he needed to get his a$$ off of my field for good. Unless it was a point to make to the whole team...that's pretty much what I would do to an individual...what ended up happening was that in the beginning i had an asst handle discipline, I found it just wasn't taken the same as when the HC did it..so then I started doing it and I found I was just wasting time dealing w/ an idiot I couldn't rely on and my coaches were sitting on there a$$es waiting on me..My father used used to say it was a dollar waiting on a dime (whatever)..anywa, if a kid pi$$ed me off enough I would just send him home and tell him to come back at an appointed time if he still wanted to play..a couple never did come back and the ones that came back were still Pi$$ed because I suspended them for a game for missing practice..got the point across with very little effort for me or my coaches |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2012 11:46:58 GMT -6
I very rarely punish the whole team for something. Unless they really mess up and I need to send a message. We were beating a team 57-7 this last year and our guys decided that they didn't like the PAT call(we hadn't been making them) and wanted to run the "Fire" fake and throw it in to the end zone. We did "Run-Bear-Runs" (20 yard sprint, 20 yard bear crawl) up and down the field for 30 minutes.
But, I prefer dealing with things at an individual level. It's easier just to remove the kid than futz with him for being an idiot.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Feb 24, 2012 12:18:48 GMT -6
It they aren't cutting in the class room, after you have tried to help, usually sitting in the stands, in full gear doing their home work will do the trick.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2012 13:43:30 GMT -6
It they aren't cutting in the class room, after you have tried to help, usually sitting in the stands, in full gear doing their home work will do the trick. Run them while having them recite Shakespeare, the noble gasses, and the quadratic formula. And then, follow PSS's example and smack 'em. |
|
|
|
Post by Coach Bennett on Feb 24, 2012 13:50:50 GMT -6
I'm sort of gravitating to the opposite end of this spectrum. It actually drives me a little nuts to hear "one your football players ________." I'm all for talking to a player about their behavior or academic issues if a teacher brings it to me, but it bothers me when a colleague uses me as an extension of their discipline (or lack thereof).
At the beginning of the season I make it perfectly clear what the scholastic/building standards are according to our board and high school policies. Let's say, for instance, a player gets in a fight during lunch. I'm not going to punish the kid for his behavior at lunch. Here's what should happen - he gets called to the dean, is given after school detention (or suspended).
When he doesn't make practice on time because he's sitting detention, then my disciplinary actions kick in. This may sound like splitting hairs, but at some point the player needs to be responsible unto himself and deal with the organized chain of events that will ensue if he doesn't tow the line.
If I have a problem with a student in class, I don't go looking through his schedule, find that he's in the chorus ensemble, and then go to the choral director and say "one of your ensemble kids, _________, is out of line in class. Can you please do something about this?"
Although I may discuss this with the director as a means of trying to help the kid, I won't be asking him discipline him because of my inability to control my class.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2012 14:36:29 GMT -6
How lenient am I? Not at all. WTF you mean lenient? No. Lets see - last year first day of practice we had 9 kids late. So I calmly told them "guys, this isn't going to work, we have to be here on time. This is a friendly warning, next time won't be so friendly." Very next day - 13 kids late. I didn't say a word. Kids came out for warm-up I lined them all up along the sideline, told them to lay down parallel with the sideline...and I rolled them...like you would roll in the grass as a kid. I rolled them across the field, then we ran a gasser (width of the field twice), then I rolled them back, then ran another gasser, then we went straight into our conditioning circuit for the next 25 minutes. No one quit - I was surprised by that. Some stopped like they weren't going to keep rolling...mistake. I told them "go home, don't come back, we DO NOT NEEEED YOU." No one was late the rest of camp. I rolled them again once we were in season because after 8 days of school 3 players had 5 tardies to class. I rolled the entire team and announced that Jim, Jeff and John couldn't figure out how to get to class on time, and since the behavior of 3 reflected on all, we all should experience the effects. - I did have to send out an email to the staff and tell them that those 3 students may have some "assistance" getting to class for a few days. - I was smart to send that email, apparently all 3 were escorted to class everyday for 2 weeks. (it's like Ron White said "I don't know how many it would have taken to whoop my @ss...but I knew how many they were going to use). ~one of the kids was late 3 times to first period. His mother brings him to school. After we rolled for it she catches me after practice and tells me she's sorry, it's not his fault, she's the reason he was late. I told her "I don't care why he's late. Late is late. But if you can't get him to school on time then maybe you should be the one rolling." I'm sure that got me crossed off the christmas card list but he hasn't been late to school again this year. Later in the year there was some screwing around at practice. I told them to knock it off a few times, they didn't so we ran some gassers - 3 of them. First one we did 5 up/downs at every intersection. So 5 to start, 5 at the first hash, 5 at the 2nd hash, 5 on the other sideline, and 5 on each of them both trips across the field. Then the 2nd gasser they had 5 pushups at each intersection and on the 3rd 5 situps at each. That's pretty much the only 3 things I had to do this year for any kind of discpline things. After the rolling experience all I had to do was say "guys, I'm asking you nicely...next time I won't be asking" and someone would always say "yea, next time we will be rolling." and after the "Happy Trail" (my nickname for the gassers with up/downs, pushups and situps) we didn't have any more grap@ssin at practice. There is a running aspect to anything in football, but we don't just take off and run to run. They didn't sign up for cross country. These type of actions...(tried and true if you ask me) are what have me worried in the "coach sued" thread. I worry that things will slowly start to snowball, and as things continue to trend where the wants/"needs" of the pushy individual outweigh the wants/needs of the many. And sadly DC.. with the way things are going..your famous line of "I AM going to coach football, it doesn't HAVE to be here"....might be obsolete if legal measures start to interfere with coaching styles. |
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Feb 24, 2012 16:06:22 GMT -6
I'm sort of gravitating to the opposite end of this spectrum. It actually drives me a little nuts to hear "one your football players ________." I'm all for talking to a player about their behavior or academic issues if a teacher brings it to me, but it bothers me when a colleague uses me as an extension of their discipline (or lack thereof). At the beginning of the season I make it perfectly clear what the scholastic/building standards are according to our board and high school policies. Let's say, for instance, a player gets in a fight during lunch. I'm not going to punish the kid for his behavior at lunch. Here's what should happen - he gets called to the dean, is given after school detention (or suspended). When he doesn't make practice on time because he's sitting detention, then my disciplinary actions kick in. This may sound like splitting hairs, but at some point the player needs to be responsible unto himself and deal with the organized chain of events that will ensue if he doesn't tow the line. If I have a problem with a student in class, I don't go looking through his schedule, find that he's in the chorus ensemble, and then go to the choral director and say "one of your ensemble kids, _________, is out of line in class. Can you please do something about this?" Although I may discuss this with the director as a means of trying to help the kid, I won't be asking him discipline him because of my inability to control my class. This one brought to mind in Bear Bryant's book when he talks about certain members of Kentucky's academics working on an athletic investigation on the basketball program. He said Adolf Rupp said "come on in you bastards I've been waiting for you. I was wondering how in the helll I sent you an A student and he has a C in English" or something along those lines. That story cracks me up because if we sent our kids to the teachers for football issues they would think we're nuts. |
|
wvcoach
Junior Member
[F4:@coach_wellman]
Posts: 288
|
Post by wvcoach on Feb 24, 2012 16:18:22 GMT -6
Great ideas by all. My defensive coordinator and I do our best to keep things in control, but we're 21 and 24 respectively and look even younger. Kids have a habit to try taking advantage of that. Unfortunately, our 30-something head coach would often rather be "one of the boys." He somehow tells them to stop their BS, things get quiet, then he tells his own joke. Incredibly inconsistent.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Feb 24, 2012 16:23:36 GMT -6
I'm sort of gravitating to the opposite end of this spectrum. It actually drives me a little nuts to hear "one your football players ________." I'm all for talking to a player about their behavior or academic issues if a teacher brings it to me, but it bothers me when a colleague uses me as an extension of their discipline (or lack thereof). At the beginning of the season I make it perfectly clear what the scholastic/building standards are according to our board and high school policies. Let's say, for instance, a player gets in a fight during lunch. I'm not going to punish the kid for his behavior at lunch. Here's what should happen - he gets called to the dean, is given after school detention (or suspended). When he doesn't make practice on time because he's sitting detention, then my disciplinary actions kick in. This may sound like splitting hairs, but at some point the player needs to be responsible unto himself and deal with the organized chain of events that will ensue if he doesn't tow the line. If I have a problem with a student in class, I don't go looking through his schedule, find that he's in the chorus ensemble, and then go to the choral director and say "one of your ensemble kids, _________, is out of line in class. Can you please do something about this?" Although I may discuss this with the director as a means of trying to help the kid, I won't be asking him discipline him because of my inability to control my class. I don't agree with this at all. If a kid is having academic or behavior issues in class I want to know about it so that I can head it off before it becomes a real issue. To me, the teacher is doing us a favor. I don't understand why a coach wouldn't want that. |
|
