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Post by fantom on Feb 9, 2012 10:19:52 GMT -6
This isn't fan talk. I think that this leads to an interesting philosophical question.
With all of the talk about where Peyton Manning is going to end up there's a lot of talk about the Redskins. Some of the talking heads are saying that that wouldn't work because Manning doesn't fit Mike Shanahan's philosophy. I have no idea whether that's true or not and that shouldn't be the focus of this discussion.
Here's my take: if I can't get along with a player like Peyton Manning I'm a freakin idiot. I know this: it's easier to win with great players than without them. If I have to tweak my system, if I don't get the credit for being a "genius", I'll live with it if it means Super Bowls.
Your thoughts?
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Post by wybulldogs on Feb 9, 2012 10:28:08 GMT -6
It's one thing to tweak the system to fit that player, however you can't overhaul the entire system. No one player should be above the system and team. On top of that what do you do if that player goes down? Then you have a system tailored for one person, who now can't play.
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Post by fantom on Feb 9, 2012 10:46:14 GMT -6
It's one thing to tweak the system to fit that player, however you can't overhaul the entire system. No one player should be above the system and team. On top of that what do you do if that player goes down? Then you have a system tailored for one person, who now can't play. I believe that any system should have flexibility built into it to account for differences in personnel. I may like the flexbone but if my hoss can chuck it, that's what we'll do. Injuries? I coach OL. We'll do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn't happen. |
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 9, 2012 11:00:03 GMT -6
No question about it. You have to adapt your offense for a very great special player. This is a lot easier at the college or NFL...well probably pretty easy at any level except for if you have been a double wing team for 20 years then get a QB that is a 5 star recruit. Which brings up the question. What if you have been running the DW or Flex Bone for your whole coaching career then get a 5 star pure passer like a Peyton Manning. Do you still run the DW but throw more or do you spread things out to throw more, but try to keep as much of your philosphy in tcked but with more passing.
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 9, 2012 11:07:22 GMT -6
No question about it. You have to adapt your offense for a very great special player. This is a lot easier at the college or NFL...well probably pretty easy at any level except for if you have been a double wing team for 20 years then get a QB that is a 5 star recruit. Which brings up the question. What if you have been running the DW or Flex Bone for your whole coaching career then get a 5 star pure passer like a Peyton Manning. Do you still run the DW but throw more or do you spread things out to throw more, but try to keep as much of your philosphy in tcked but with more passing. There is a triple guy down this way lost his first 3 games..then started throwing the ball and they ripped off like 10 straight making it very deep into the playoffs |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2012 11:59:12 GMT -6
Spos21ram, we had a situation similar to what you describe. At the time, we ran a double TE Wing T and then had a group come up that wasn't quite as big and powerful on the line, not quite as quick and strong in the backfield, but had a better throwing QB than we were accustomed to. We maintained the base system with a couple of wrinkles for the QB. It sounds simple, but we really did "run the same plays, just called the pass plays more often." There were quite a few games that year where our run/pass ration was right at 5O/5O. Almost got us kicked out of the Wing T community, if I remember right...  |
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Post by mholst40 on Feb 9, 2012 12:01:48 GMT -6
If you're an offensive guru, you should be able to tailor your scheme to anyone. Isn't the whole point of a pro style offense to adapt to your strengths and hide your weaknesses. I could put Peyton Manning in our triple option offense and be effective. We just wouldn't be a triple option team anymore.
Teams with a good defense, but a subpar QB or teams that need to get over the hump and into the playoffs would be good fits.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 9, 2012 12:47:51 GMT -6
It's all about the ego's at that level. It's also a business above a game at that level.
I don't think you change as much as you adapt to the talent you have. Reggie Bush and Alex Smith played on the same team in HS. They ran the wing-t. The system was adapted to feature their talents. Not changed because of them.
Not to go all fan boy and hope this doesn't sound like it but Manning is gonna go to a team where he is the defacto OC. Just like in Indy. I can't see an "offensive guru" like Shananhan sitting back and giving that much to control up.
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Post by shotgunfivewide5 on Feb 9, 2012 12:54:45 GMT -6
what you would hope for is that you have an offense diverse enough to begin with that be retuned towards a great player, our system can feature a running game and cover for bad passing or the other way around...things need to be simple enough so we dont confuse your other palyers and your star too....first year as an offensive coordinator i developed an offense for a kid that was an incredible player.....needless to say he was injured early and finally quit the team, also, the players that backed him up were no where nearly as good.....the system should stay the same and can inflate with a great player or shrink when youth is involved or covering up lack of athletes
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Post by veerman on Feb 9, 2012 21:54:17 GMT -6
Didn't Dan Marino one of, if not the greatest passer in NFL history (think he could have thrown for 6000+ with the rules of NFL today) play in a wing-t system in high school?
I think any offense can adjust to talent. I prefer the flexbone option, but with peyton we would still run the plays within our system but like one coach said play calling might change. He would still practice his reads some, but with him he may spend more time down with wr on passing while others did the full time doing reads. Again, play calling needs to be adjusted, but as far as offensive philosophy I will still run what I know how to teach best.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 10, 2012 8:40:35 GMT -6
This is exactly why we call the "talking heads" the talking heads.
I think that there are subtle changes that can be made in a system to accommodate a total stud athlete. For example, our system is based heavily on misdirection and getting the ball spread around. None of our positions are overly emphasized in our offense. We realized that our FB needed to be getting more touches because he's faster than hell. So, we installed an I formation to go along with our standard package. We moved him to the TB spot, plugged our second string FB into the FB position and ran more Power, Toss and Counter with him. We had everything within our package anyway; just tinkered with formations and personnel.
If we can do that at the high school level, with the diversity of schemes, I'm pretty sure an NFL team can make room for a HOF QB.
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