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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 29, 2012 18:58:02 GMT -6
I looked but couldn't find this (even though I vaguely remember a thread like it).
What are some things that great/consistently good programs do that contribute to their success? I could care less about schemes but what are program building things, expectations, ways they create buy in all around, etc.? Anything that you would consider as a prereq or major contributor to success.
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Post by lochness on Jan 29, 2012 19:29:07 GMT -6
From what I've seen in my state, at the HS and small college level:
-Maintain consistency in the coaching staff
-Maintain consistency in schemes and techniques. Don't chase the magic scheme every 2-3 years.
-Great weight room and summer camp participation
-Committment to constant improvement
Simple
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 29, 2012 19:41:41 GMT -6
I looked but couldn't find this (even though I vaguely remember a thread like it). What are some things that great/consistently good programs do that contribute to their success? I could care less about schemes but what are program building things, expectations, ways they create buy in all around, etc.? Anything that you would consider as a prereq or major contributor to success. The best teams have #1 excellent commitment to the weight room 2. Do an excellent job teaching fundamentals, especially tackling 3. Same scheme, terminology, coaching points from top to bottom throughout program. |
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Post by coachfd on Jan 29, 2012 19:51:43 GMT -6
15 Keys to Building a Long-Term Successful Football Program
(from a 2011 issue of American Football Monthly)
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Post by davishfc on Jan 29, 2012 21:10:23 GMT -6
15 Keys to Building a Long-Term Successful Football Program (from a 2011 issue of American Football Monthly) What number issue from 2011? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 29, 2012 21:15:11 GMT -6
I looked but couldn't find this (even though I vaguely remember a thread like it). What are some things that great/consistently good programs do that contribute to their success? I could care less about schemes but what are program building things, expectations, ways they create buy in all around, etc.? Anything that you would consider as a prereq or major contributor to success. The best teams have #1 excellent commitment to the weight room 2. Do an excellent job teaching fundamentals, especially tackling 3. Same scheme, terminology, coaching points from top to bottom throughout program. I would disagree with #3 if you are including 8th grade and under in the "top to bottom" description. I DON'T disagree that successful teams don't have that vertical integration...just that I believe it is more a by product of other critical attributes rather than a contributing factor to the success. I believe that schools such as Curtis, Evangel, West Monroe (all here in Louisiana) would still have great success if they randomly pulled a scheme out of a hat at the Jr. High Level. The vertical integration is evidence of how the Varsity recognizes and takes an active role in the youth development program. I believe THAT is the contributing factor, as opposed to running the same scheme. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 29, 2012 21:19:47 GMT -6
Maybe I am jaded but the best programs in this area consistently have D1 scholarship players on their team.....my question is..in my years as a hs coach, we have never had a kid get a scholarshiop at any level..how do you get these players to go to your school..these schools are always attracting transfers..chicken or the egg?
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 30, 2012 7:05:34 GMT -6
"my question is..in my years as a hs coach, we have never had a kid get a scholarshiop at any level..how do you get these players to go to your school..these schools are always attracting transfers..chicken or the egg?"
Do you have a recruiting program in place? Because I think this can be a key component of "building" and sustaining a top notch program. If kids in the system start to see that if they play football, the coaches work hard to get you opportunities at a college program. Now if they take advantage of that opportunity is up to them, but at least the kids see the effort.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 30, 2012 8:28:51 GMT -6
Well I do recruit throughout the school...A football parent from the previous school i worked at asked about coming to my school he told me he was looking for a "cheap house to rent w/ an acre of land....he ended up tranfering to another school..started at LB..played some FB..oh BTW they won the state championship ...maybe I am wrong, niave or stoopid but I am not going down that road...also, I WAS coaching a second year program..we won 4 games last year..I "retired"
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Post by blb on Jan 30, 2012 8:37:18 GMT -6
One year they give you a new car, the next year they give you the gas to get out of town. Or after awarding you a "life time contract," you have a losing season, they have you declared legally dead and "retire" you anyway. |
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Post by fantom on Jan 30, 2012 10:30:31 GMT -6
A football parent from the previous school i worked at asked about coming to my school he told me he was looking for a "cheap house to rent w/ an acre of land.. In Loudoun County? LOL. |
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Post by 42falcon on Jan 30, 2012 10:31:53 GMT -6
Maybe I am jaded but the best programs in this area consistently have D1 scholarship players on their team.....my question is..in my years as a hs coach, we have never had a kid get a scholarshiop at any level..how do you get these players to go to your school..these schools are always attracting transfers..chicken or the egg? You are not jaded at all if anything you are realistic in the sense that to be a power house you need the raw talent. We are in a similar boat brand new school / program we compete in the smallest division but are projected to have one of the largest school populations in the City / Province. We ask the same thing "how do I get the top end kid here?" None of our coaches recruit community kids it is against the rules even though there are teams who do it. To get back on the thread topic we approach this the same way a TCU or a Boise has in the past. You get the 2-3 star kid, maybe you end up with 1 4 star, you run a program they can buy into, you are honest with the kids, you coach the heck out of the basics like coach Bud mentioned above & lastly you have the best off season program there is. What ends up happening is they all of a sudden see that they are getting stronger, bigger and faster. They then compete more on Friday nights & even knock off a few teams they normally don't. I think then you start to see kids coming to your school. |
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Post by fantom on Jan 30, 2012 10:47:21 GMT -6
I've been a part of a pretty good program and there are a few things that we did that we did that from reading this board it seems doesn't happen everywhere:
1. All of the coaches were on the same page. Our HC was a strong leader with a clear vision
of how things should be done but he was willing to listen. We didn't have any back-biting.
The HC encouraged ideas and discussion but made the final decision. Although there were
differences of opinion they always stayed in the staff room.
2. Constant research and development. During the offseason we were always looking into
new ideas, whether it was Xs and Os, organizational ideas, or S&C. If we see something
that we like we look at how it can fit into our program.
3. Commitment to the offseason program.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Jan 30, 2012 11:05:02 GMT -6
I've been a part of a pretty good program and there are a few things that we did that we did that from reading this board it seems doesn't happen everywhere: 1. All of the coaches were on the same page. Our HC was a strong leader with a clear vision of how things should be done but he was willing to listen. We didn't have any back-biting. The HC encouraged ideas and discussion but made the final decision. Although there were differences of opinion they always stayed in the staff room. 2. Constant research and development. During the offseason we were always looking into new ideas, whether it was Xs and Os, organizational ideas, or S&C. If we see something that we like we look at how it can fit into our program. 3. Commitment to the offseason program. All of these plus PLAYERS....IMHO you dont win anything without players.... I have also learned that this doesnt always mean 6'5 245 4.5 forty... PLAYERS come in different shapes and sizes. And there is also a difference in an athlete and a PLAYER.! I want PLAYERS. I have never seen championships won or consistant winning without players... Some can catch lightning in bottle for short while but not over long haul. |
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Post by mholst40 on Jan 30, 2012 11:08:27 GMT -6
A team in our league understood that in order to get the best players from his school out for football they needed to win and consistently make the playoffs.
So, they schedule a cupcake non-league schedule to ensure they would have 4-5 wins prior to starting league play. The kids don't reallly know which of these teams are good, but more kids want to play if you consistently field a winning team.
It may not do much for you as far as facing competition once you reach the playoffs, but the thought is that you will eventually get the highest level of talent you can playing for your team. At that point, you can challenge yourself schedule wise.
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Post by fantom on Jan 30, 2012 11:10:36 GMT -6
I've been a part of a pretty good program and there are a few things that we did that we did that from reading this board it seems doesn't happen everywhere: 1. All of the coaches were on the same page. Our HC was a strong leader with a clear vision of how things should be done but he was willing to listen. We didn't have any back-biting. The HC encouraged ideas and discussion but made the final decision. Although there were differences of opinion they always stayed in the staff room. 2. Constant research and development. During the offseason we were always looking into new ideas, whether it was Xs and Os, organizational ideas, or S&C. If we see something that we like we look at how it can fit into our program. 3. Commitment to the offseason program. All of these plus PLAYERS....IMHO you dont win anything without players.... I have also learned that this doesnt always mean 6'5 245 4.5 forty... PLAYERS come in different shapes and sizes. And there is also a difference in an athlete and a PLAYER.! I want PLAYERS. I have never seen championships won or consistant winning without players... Some can catch lightning in bottle for short while but not over long haul. Of course you have to have players. |
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 30, 2012 11:27:09 GMT -6
A team in our league understood that in order to get the best players from his school out for football they needed to win and consistently make the playoffs. So, they schedule a cupcake non-league schedule to ensure they would have 4-5 wins prior to starting league play. The kids don't reallly know which of these teams are good, but more kids want to play if you consistently field a winning team. It may not do much for you as far as facing competition once you reach the playoffs, but the thought is that you will eventually get the highest level of talent you can playing for your team. At that point, you can challenge yourself schedule wise. That's what I have done at both my schools... Really helped to rebuild... First ever playoff appearance at my alma mater and last year had the first playoff appearance in nearly a decade at my current school... Some say it doesn't toughen your team up but our league is brutal... I'll put it up with any league in northern CA... We went 5-0 in non league last year, made the playoffs and nearly pulled off a major upset in first round (lost by 6, tied up til 5 minutes to go) We had more buzz, support, and school spirit this year than in a decade The fact is kids see wins, losses, and how many points you score... They don't know the difference between a non league win over a cupcake compared to a win over a solid program, especially if you play someone more than a 30 minute drive away |
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Post by fantom on Jan 30, 2012 11:53:49 GMT -6
What do you guys mean "you have to have players"? what are you defining as "a player"? Players who are equal or better than the teams you'll play. They don't have to be D.1 prospects but you can't win if you don't have players. |
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Post by runtoball on Jan 30, 2012 14:01:12 GMT -6
To me a good program still wins 4-6 games in a bad year when they don't "have the players". When they do have the players, they make a run in the playoffs. They win those 4-6 games in the "bad" years because of what fantom said. They have a coaching staff that has been implementing the same things for anywhere from 5-30 years, and kids who have bought into, so they work their butts off in practice and the weight room. To me, that is a great program. Granted, this is looking at it from the perspective of a small school, where you don't have a large talent pool from year to year.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 30, 2012 14:34:47 GMT -6
I agree with everything that's been posted above, especially the consistency in staff. I have seen many programs fall apart because the HC simply couldn't pull together a solid staff. There's a lot of factors involved there but I have seen communication be an issue in these situations.
The best staffs I have worked on are more than willing to battle something out in the coaches office. Something needs to be addressed so it's handled. The poor programs I have worked in are quite the opposite; they are all afraid of conflict. So, it gets catty because people are getting thrown under the bus or it just gets tense and nasty.
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Post by sdfbcoach on Jan 30, 2012 14:58:17 GMT -6
I agree with everyone has been saying. I definitely agree you need some good players but you also need those program guys that arent the most talented but they work hard, they are dependable and accountable and they allow you to have not necessarily a great team but a good team from year to year. When you get the really players to go along with them then you are able to have a truly great team. Also, character is huge. You have to teach it, preach it, model it, and expect it at all times. If kids dont or wont demonstrate then they get shown the door.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 30, 2012 15:29:01 GMT -6
You know, one of the best programs in this state (possibly the best) only sends about 1-2 kids a year to the next level. And, they're generally going NAIA, D2, or D3. The kids are just very, very well coached and the program is a friggin blue-print for success.
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Post by love353football on Jan 30, 2012 15:30:00 GMT -6
1- you need good leadership- set the course, steer the ship, weather the storms.
2- a dedicated, hardworking, AVAILABLE staff.
3- kids. Hard working kids. Get an identity and sell it to the kids, it becomes their identity.
4- support- administrative, parents too.
5- good solid off season program (basketball coach and baseball coach dont discourage your kids from training)
6- discipline and accountability- every level, coaches and players
7- finances to fix big issues, ability to move on when things are beyond your control. Worry only about what you can control.
8- academic support for your players. Its not going to do anyone any good if they cant stay eligible.
9- qualified medical responders. Incompetence here will lose games for you.
10- student of the game at every level, study, prepare, get better.
I didnt say schemes, but they play a part as do adjustments and game day problem solving. I didnt say fundamentals, they are part of the whole deal impacted by the other things I posted.
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Post by lochness on Jan 30, 2012 20:32:02 GMT -6
Maybe I am jaded but the best programs in this area consistently have D1 scholarship players on their team.....my question is..in my years as a hs coach, we have never had a kid get a scholarshiop at any level..how do you get these players to go to your school..these schools are always attracting transfers..chicken or the egg? How long have you been on this message board?  Install Oregon's offense (or at least something that's fast-paced no-huddle and shotgun) and TCU's defense and you'll get players out! Put something in that's modern and exciting, and everyone will want to play for you! And, now your schemes are designed for the worst possible athletes in the world to be successful, so when you start to get "PLAYERS," you'll be completely dominant. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 21:14:54 GMT -6
Maybe I am jaded but the best programs in this area consistently have D1 scholarship players on their team.....my question is..in my years as a hs coach, we have never had a kid get a scholarshiop at any level..how do you get these players to go to your school..these schools are always attracting transfers..chicken or the egg? How long have you been on this message board? Install Oregon's offense (or at least something that's fast-paced no-huddle and shotgun) and TCU's defense and you'll get players out! Put something in that's modern and exciting, and everyone will want to play for you! And, now your schemes are designed for the worst possible athletes in the world to be successful, so when you start to get "PLAYERS," you'll be completely dominant. Not sure if serious..... |
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 31, 2012 7:20:23 GMT -6
How long have you been on this message board? Install Oregon's offense (or at least something that's fast-paced no-huddle and shotgun) and TCU's defense and you'll get players out! Put something in that's modern and exciting, and everyone will want to play for you! And, now your schemes are designed for the worst possible athletes in the world to be successful, so when you start to get "PLAYERS," you'll be completely dominant. Not sure if serious..... When you get to 1000 posts then you'll know for sure |
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Post by lochness on Jan 31, 2012 7:55:49 GMT -6
How long have you been on this message board? Install Oregon's offense (or at least something that's fast-paced no-huddle and shotgun) and TCU's defense and you'll get players out! Put something in that's modern and exciting, and everyone will want to play for you! And, now your schemes are designed for the worst possible athletes in the world to be successful, so when you start to get "PLAYERS," you'll be completely dominant. Not sure if serious..... Ummm...I'm [glow=red,2,300] ALWAYS[/glow] serious, sir.  |
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Post by blb on Jan 31, 2012 8:02:54 GMT -6
I think the majority of us could identify the ingredients of successful (or "great") HS Football programs.
The problem is getting a job at one that has the desire and wherewithal to do all or at least most of those things.
Those communities and districts are few and far between.
For example since Michigan began playoffs in 1975, almost one-third of the state championships have been won by a dozen schools (out of approximately 620 playing Football).
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Post by davishfc on Jan 31, 2012 11:58:24 GMT -6
I think the majority of us could identify the ingredients of successful (or "great") HS Football programs. The problem is getting a job at one that has the desire and wherewithal to do all or at least most of those things. Those communities and districts are few and far between. For example since Michigan began playoffs in 1975, almost one-third of the state championships have been won by a dozen schools (out of approximately 620 playing Football). Great point blb. The state championship tradition is within a select group of programs throughout our state. Not to say it can't happen for other schools but the likelihood is much lower for those schools. It just brings to mind a quote I read here...it may have been your's..."there are more great football coaches than there are great football programs." Like you said, being in a place that has the required conditions for success is absolutely vital. Some coaches are fortunate enough to get there and some never do. However, I do believe there are some programs that have the state championship blueprint but it's not happening because the conditions are not exactly what they need to be. |
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Post by mrjvi on Jan 31, 2012 13:29:19 GMT -6
I agree. If football was more important in our school it would be easier to have top level success more often. In some of our area schools, football is blatently the most important and highest prestige sport. It's a bit easier for them to have success but not impossible for others. Sometimes poor coaches in those schools do well despite their coaching. It is what it is. I guess that's the challenge.
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