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Post by coachcb on Jan 16, 2012 11:27:59 GMT -6
coachshepherd, We played the 3-2 Monster and had some success with it. But we found ourselves in our 3-4-1 adjustment more often than not so we just stuck with it. When they spread the field? That is typically what we did. But if we against a primarily 2 RB set, we were in a Monster D, just feel like it helps shut down anything an offense can present. coachcb - what do you do out of your 3-4? Do you Slant, play 2-gap? We played the 3-2 Monster the way a very successful team in the state does it and it hurt us against a double back-double end set: ................CB..............CB .................W.....M.......S ...............5........0........5 .................E..G..C..G...E .........................Q .........................F ........................H As you can see, we're 1-1 in the box and we got chewed up on the run. We originally had the CBs playing a quarters technique (7 yards deep) in this situation and reading the Ends. We figured we could get 8 guys fitting on the run which would make up for the light box. It didn't. Even with rep after rep after rep, they still started putting their eyes in the backfield and we had ends flying right past them on PA. So, we ended up with this adjustment: ......................M .......CB......W.......S........CB .............4i......0........4i ............E....G..C...G....E ......................Q .......................F ......................H This worked out much better for us and was simpler as it was the same front we ran against spread formations. We ran a mix of single gap (shaded) and double gap technique this year and I'll never do it again. The DL got a lot of quality turns at it as we kept everything really simple but they still struggled. We finally just ended up in a single gap look the end of the year.
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 16, 2012 11:32:14 GMT -6
When they spread the field? That is typically what we did. But if we against a primarily 2 RB set, we were in a Monster D, just feel like it helps shut down anything an offense can present. coachcb - what do you do out of your 3-4? Do you Slant, play 2-gap? We played the 3-2 Monster the way a very successful team in the state does it and it hurt us against a double back-double end set: ................CB..............CB .................W.....M.......S ...............5........0........5 .................E..G..C..G...E .........................Q .........................F ........................H As you can see, we're 1-1 in the box and we got chewed up on the run. We originally had the CBs playing a quarters technique (7 yards deep) in this situation and reading the Ends. We figured we could get 8 guys fitting on the run which would make up for the light box. It didn't. Even with rep after rep after rep, they still started putting their eyes in the backfield and we had ends flying right past them on PA. So, we ended up with this adjustment: ......................M .......CB......W.......S........CB .............4i......0........4i ............E....G..C...G....E ......................Q .......................F ......................H This worked out much better for us and was simpler as it was the same front we ran against spread formations. We ran a mix of single gap (shaded) and double gap technique this year and I'll never do it again. The DL got a lot of quality turns at it as we kept everything really simple but they still struggled. We finally just ended up in a single gap look the end of the year. Where did you LBs line up in your monster defense? We play outside eye of the G. We try and funnel everything to the A gaps, so the Monster can come and clean up while NT occupies the blocks. You have to have the horses up front to run it. We didn't have a dominant NT like we did last year, so we struggled on D a bit. Will be the same case next year, so we are going to slant out of a 3-4 and also out of an inverted 3-2.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 16, 2012 11:38:00 GMT -6
coachshepherd, They were lined up outside eye of the guard as well. Honestly, our problem really wasn't scheme, it was fundamentals as is generally the case. We stressed and repped fundamentals all day long but we had a lot of problems with it, for a number of reasons. I have a thread up about it on the General Defense board.
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Post by carookie on Jan 16, 2012 11:59:14 GMT -6
How would you respond defensively to 2 wr 2 te balanced look? (No RB)
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Post by coachcb on Jan 16, 2012 12:05:09 GMT -6
How would you respond defensively to 2 wr 2 te balanced look? (No RB) .............................M ..CB.................W..........S.............CB ..................5..........0.........5 ....................E...G...C...G...E ....Z...................................................X ...............................Q This would be the general alignment with either C1 or C0 with some kind of four-man blitz coming. You can force them to keep an end in on pass protection by attacking both A-gaps with some kind of 4-man stunt. This is one of the hard things about 8-man football. You can end up in one-one coverage real quick.
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 16, 2012 12:07:07 GMT -6
How would you respond defensively to 2 wr 2 te balanced look? (No RB) We auto-check to a stack-3 look, or play a 2-4
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Post by coachcb on Jan 16, 2012 12:10:36 GMT -6
We really didn't see a whole lot of empty sets this year. One team ran them a lot but they were friggin terrible. So, we didn't make a whole lot of adjustments against it.
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mojoben
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by mojoben on Jan 16, 2012 18:08:32 GMT -6
You can find some great coaches all over but I've found the 8-Man coaches from Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma are ahead of the game. 8-Man football in those states definitely aren't basic and are very multiple.
A great coach to talk/learn from is Fred McClain at Madison, Kansas. His offense and defense are very tough to defend and go against. He is in the New Jersey Sports HOF already as well.
Another great one would be Jeff Blattner at South Gray (Montezuma, KS). Much like Melby at Pike Valley (Scandia) he has been around a long time with a lot of success.
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 16, 2012 19:02:31 GMT -6
One of the great defensive minds I know of is Jeff Savage, has had loads of success wherever he's been. I believe he is at burden central now, but has had different stops throughout KS, including a very successful program in Quivera Heights. He adapted Michigan's slant defense to 8 man, based out of a 3-4 defense. Really good stuff. I have the powerpoint he gave out at a clinic he talked at before, if anyone wants it pm me.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jan 16, 2012 21:44:06 GMT -6
Great thread, learning a bunch already, thanks guys.
I'm not ready to talk defense yet, still hung up on trying to figure out what offense I want to work with. However, just a opening shot in the dark here, does everyone play with a Nose and run contain philosophy defense like in the old days of say-the 5-2 Monster or 5-3?
The rules with running a 11 man "spill" philosophy is that you have to have someone to spill to-well duh. But, with 8 there doesn't seem to be a weakside/strongside to set the defense to.
I'm not explaining myself well, and it's probably because I know nothing of 8man yet. What I"m trying to ask in my very clumsy way, is that is there anyway to adapt a Miami 4-3 spill philosophy defense to 8man?
Thanks guys, I'm peddling as fast as I can. OJW
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 16, 2012 23:40:02 GMT -6
Great thread, learning a bunch already, thanks guys. I'm not ready to talk defense yet, still hung up on trying to figure out what offense I want to work with. However, just a opening shot in the dark here, does everyone play with a Nose and run contain philosophy defense like in the old days of say-the 5-2 Monster or 5-3? The rules with running a 11 man "spill" philosophy is that you have to have someone to spill to-well duh. But, with 8 there doesn't seem to be a weakside/strongside to set the defense to. I'm not explaining myself well, and it's probably because I know nothing of 8man yet. What I"m trying to ask in my very clumsy way, is that is there anyway to adapt a Miami 4-3 spill philosophy defense to 8man? Thanks guys, I'm peddling as fast as I can. OJW I think it's tough to play spill in 8 man, the game is so fast, that if you do let a guy get to the edge, and you don't have fast pursuit it can bite you. Can it be done, I think so, I just think it's a bit more difficult than playing contain. I'm more of a bend don't break on defense.
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Post by carookie on Jan 17, 2012 0:27:23 GMT -6
OJW,
I was wondering something similar, maybe running some sort of C4 and spilling to the safeties. The thing I keep coming back to though is how versatile these guys end up having to be; they may have to play a safety technique one play, the next roll up to the LOS.
In general it seems to be less specialization amongst the different positions.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 17, 2012 8:49:44 GMT -6
OJW, I was wondering something similar, maybe running some sort of C4 and spilling to the safeties. The thing I keep coming back to though is how versatile these guys end up having to be; they may have to play a safety technique one play, the next roll up to the LOS. In general it seems to be less specialization amongst the different positions. This is exactly how we did it and it wasn't pretty. Maybe you'll have more success but it hurt us. There's just so much room on the edge for that back to work with. I wasn't happy kicking over to a containment philosophy but we just weren't getting it done when spilling.
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Post by bluecrazy on Jan 22, 2012 11:02:32 GMT -6
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Post by bluecrazy on Jan 22, 2012 11:03:59 GMT -6
This Defense worked great for us
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Post by szimm29 on Jan 22, 2012 11:24:02 GMT -6
Another great guy to talk with is Ken Moore of Simla, CO. He won several championships here and played in several more. He was very innovative and has a great mind for 8 man football. John Barber of Merino High School in colorado also won several championships in the last decade. He is now retired, but his teams were always great.
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mojoben
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by mojoben on Jan 26, 2012 22:19:08 GMT -6
Yes, Savage is a good one. I know about him more due to his offense. He really likes to spread it out and wing it around. It helps that he has his son at QB and a very good WR the last few years at Central Burden. None the less he had great success at Quivira Heights (now called Central Plains with a consolidation with Claflin) throwing as well.
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Post by scknightrider on Jan 27, 2012 0:18:04 GMT -6
Has anyone ever started an 8man program from the birth of the program? Or has anyone ever turned an unsuccessful program around? If so, then I would like to ask a few questions, pick your brains a little.
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coachood
Sophomore Member
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. -Vince Lombardi
Posts: 173
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Post by coachood on Jan 28, 2012 9:26:37 GMT -6
I helped start a program at a school down here 5 years ago what do you need to know?
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Post by tatter09 on Feb 5, 2012 16:40:31 GMT -6
I am a coach in Idaho, only been 8 man for two years and adjusting still. Anyone know any info on the 2-4-2 defense? ANything would be helpful.
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Post by youthcoach33 on Sept 28, 2012 11:49:16 GMT -6
I too would love some 2-4-2 or 2-5-1 information to see how it compares to the way I run it for my youth team.
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Post by paulfrantz on Sept 30, 2012 18:24:35 GMT -6
I also coach 8 man. We run a single wing O, and a 3-2-3, or 3-4-1 depending on how you view it. In a balanced O formation, I play wide side as strong. My N is in a 1(strong), my T is in a 3 weak, and my E is 4i strong. 2 LB 40 strong, and 40 weak. 2 cb and a safety. Believe it or not we do run a cover 2 against a spread.
..........................T............................ ..........................F............................ ..........................Q........................... ..................E..G..C..G..E................... ..............C.....T....N.....E....C.............. ..................D..............S..................... ..........................M...........................
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 30, 2012 20:12:03 GMT -6
In 9-man I've never seen anyone spill, leastways not effectively. You just don't have enough guys to play two guys in the flats, two overtop, one in the middle, and have an effective line.
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Post by paulfrantz on Oct 1, 2012 5:31:18 GMT -6
I agree cclement. I always have my corners or LB set the edge, depending on the call and the O set. Sending LB on a dog inside with a spread formation will even have a T or E as the force player. The main thing though is to keep the ball inside where help is. As some have already said, one mistake in 8 man can quickly become 6.
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