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Post by carookie on Jan 4, 2012 18:10:18 GMT -6
In an odd, non football motivated, career move I may find myself spending the next year (yeah just one year....don't ask its complicated) coaching 8 man ball.
So I'm looking for anyone here who has experience with this (I didn't notice an 8 man section). Just basic theory questions; what are the most common defenses, and offenses, what do most teams try to do. On the field stuff.
Thanks
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ssm
Freshmen Member
Posts: 72
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Post by ssm on Jan 7, 2012 0:41:08 GMT -6
I know that it's sorta the same thing but you should try finding an indoor team. We all play 8v8 in the same vein but on a smaller field. The concepts are the same, but I think that some of the rules differ.
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Post by coachorr on Jan 7, 2012 2:20:17 GMT -6
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Post by coachschro on Jan 7, 2012 11:07:04 GMT -6
In our part of the country I would not compare high school 8 man football to arena league. Here all we see is 21 and 22 personel. Hardly ever see more then one receiver in the game and most teams throw less then 10 times per game.
My brothers team was spread 3 and 4 wide the whole game and saw almost exclusively cover 0 and cover 1...
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Post by carookie on Jan 7, 2012 13:22:28 GMT -6
Thanks for everyone who posted on this or PM'd me. The good thing is that the techniques stay the same for the most part; but I will say strategy wise its fairly unique. If anyone has anything else it would be appreciated.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 7, 2012 14:39:30 GMT -6
Indoor football is nothing like 8-man. Differen rules, different game.
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Post by tigeroption on Jan 8, 2012 18:01:04 GMT -6
Most basic defense in 8 man is a 3-4 (0 nose, DE's outside TE's like a 5 tec.) 20 tec ILB's over the guards, 1 free safety and two hybrid CB/OLB's. You will also see some 3-3 and 4-1 looks as well.
A lot of stuff you can do offensively, have seen a change from 2 TE, 2 RB Iso, Trap, Option stuff to alot more spread passing just like at the 11 man levels in recent years.
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coachood
Sophomore Member
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. -Vince Lombardi
Posts: 173
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Post by coachood on Jan 11, 2012 19:29:06 GMT -6
I'll echo what tigeroption said, and add some 4-4 with hybrid corner/ olb/ safety. also see some single wing on offense.
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Post by bucklateral on Jan 11, 2012 20:40:22 GMT -6
Coach,
Great Coach and Teacher in Kansas Eight Man, is Don Melby, Scandia, Kansas.
Do we see shades of Eight Man football on Saturdays and Sundays?
Could 11 man Coaches learn from the Eight Man game?
Buck
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jan 12, 2012 18:17:21 GMT -6
Bucklateral,
I found a Don Melby at Pike Valley HS, is this the same guy? It be hard to figure if there were two guys with the same name, unless one's a Jr. coaching football in Kansas.
The only 8man guy is know on this board is coachcb, he really knows his stuff.
Thanks, OJW
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 12, 2012 21:44:43 GMT -6
I coach 8 man as well, know Coach Melby, coached against while I was in KS, and also played against a few of his teams when I has in high school.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jan 12, 2012 22:02:44 GMT -6
This is great, got some more coaches coming out, thanks for posting. If you don't mind I'll PM.
OJW
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Post by bucklateral on Jan 12, 2012 23:03:51 GMT -6
OJW--Coach Shepard,
Yes, you know the same Don Melby at Pike Valley, Scandia Ks. A true gentleman and Professional. I Know he would take the time to visit with you.
Buck
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Post by bucklateral on Jan 12, 2012 23:07:10 GMT -6
Coach Shepherd,
Excuse me for misspelling your name on the last post.
Buck
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Post by kwesterlind on Jan 12, 2012 23:22:01 GMT -6
I coach eight man in AZ. Watching the indoor game can help with pass routes and formations, but not much else. The defense is limited in the indoor game in terms of who can blitz and what line stunts are allowed.
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 13, 2012 9:14:01 GMT -6
OJW--Coach Shepard, Yes, you know the same Don Melby at Pike Valley, Scandia Ks. A true gentleman and Professional. I Know he would take the time to visit with you. Buck Yes sir. My old high school played them 3 times while I was playing and coached against him twice when I was at my alma mater. |
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Post by coachcb on Jan 13, 2012 9:53:35 GMT -6
Bucklateral, I found a Don Melby at Pike Valley HS, is this the same guy? It be hard to figure if there were two guys with the same name, unless one's a Jr. coaching football in Kansas. The only 8man guy is know on this boar d is coachcb, he really knows his stuff. Thanks, OJW Thanks coach. Our record over the last two years would beg to differ though. LOL. |
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Post by coachseven on Jan 13, 2012 10:04:52 GMT -6
I played 8 man in high school in oklahoma. There are some really good 8 man coaches in Oklahoma they compete is Class B and Class C here. Best I know is Joe Sindelar he is the principal and head coach at Woodland High School in Fairfax Oklahoma. They have been 11 man and darn good and are moving back to 8 man next year. He was a part of all the great Morrison teams that won like 100 games in a row he was the DC and later the head coach. He is a very nice man and I am sure would be very helpful. If I remember right they ran sort of a wing-t and a 3-4 defense.
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Post by tigeroption on Jan 13, 2012 12:15:14 GMT -6
I played 8-Man and coached it for 5 years (2 as HC) another great resource would be Kevin Ayers at Sharon Springs Kansas. He's won like 85% of his games as a Head Coach and multiple state titles when he was at Jetmore, KS kansas8manfootballassociation.webs.com/ |
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Post by bucklateral on Jan 13, 2012 12:20:12 GMT -6
Coachseven
Late seventies and 80's Mid Way Denton in NE Kansas ran an offense similar to an offense in Oklahoma. The offense was that of Turpin Oklahoma. Very effective; Dive, HB Counter, QB Boot or Roll out. Midway Denton early on was very successful with a Crossing Pass Pattern. Mark Juhl was the coach, Great coach.
Coach Juhl will tell You, they had maybe 5 Plays, but; Rep Rep Rep. and thier key was Variable Blocking Schemes up Front. great Trap Team.
Buck
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Post by coachcb on Jan 13, 2012 12:27:36 GMT -6
Coach, Great Coach and Teacher in Kansas Eight Man, is Don Melby, Scandia, Kansas. Do we see shades of Eight Man football on Saturdays and Sundays? Could 11 man Coaches learn from the Eight Man game? Buck I think an 11-man coach could learn alot about proper defensive fundamentals and their EXTREME importance in 8-man. There is a lot of open grass to play around with in an 8-man game; one missed tackle can result in a score. |
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 13, 2012 18:02:38 GMT -6
Coach, Great Coach and Teacher in Kansas Eight Man, is Don Melby, Scandia, Kansas. Do we see shades of Eight Man football on Saturdays and Sundays? Could 11 man Coaches learn from the Eight Man game? Buck I think an 11-man coach could learn alot about proper defensive fundamentals and their EXTREME importance in 8-man. There is a lot of open grass to play around with in an 8-man game; one missed tackle can result in a score. Especially tackling in open space, if you can't do it in 8 man - good night. |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jan 13, 2012 19:27:51 GMT -6
CB said,
"I think an 11-man coach could learn alot about proper defensive fundamentals and their EXTREME importance in 8-man. There is a lot of open grass to play around with in an 8-man game; one missed tackle can result in a score."
CB, this is what scares me. Although the game is similar, all that space is really messing with my head. I am counting on getting alot of help here. Thanks for Carookie starting this post.
But man o man, I've got a long way to go.
OJW
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Post by tigeroption on Jan 15, 2012 18:51:14 GMT -6
Coachseven Late seventies and 80's Mid Way Denton in NE Kansas ran an offense similar to an offense in Oklahoma. The offense was that of Turpin Oklahoma. Very effective; Dive, HB Counter, QB Boot or Roll out. Midway Denton early on was very successful with a Crossing Pass Pattern. Mark Juhl was the coach, Great coach. Coach Juhl will tell You, they had maybe 5 Plays, but; Rep Rep Rep. and thier key was Variable Blocking Schemes up Front. great Trap Team. Buck That is exactly the offense that I ran in high school, I played after Midway-Denton's big run but they were in our district almost every year. Great offense, same offense Chuck Fesseden ran for years and still does at Northern Valley High School in NW KS. |
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ballcoach20
Freshmen Member
Throw it to the flat until you can't.
Posts: 30
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Post by ballcoach20 on Jan 15, 2012 22:50:37 GMT -6
I run a 1 back/no back offense and mostly saw 2 or 3 man fronts with cover 0 or cover 1. Most teams around here run 21 and 22 personnel offense against a 3-4 or 4-4 defense. About every play is ten yards or a touchdown. One on one tackling and team pursuit tackling is crucial.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jan 16, 2012 10:03:26 GMT -6
Coaches,
I need help, anything you send me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to Coachshepherd and CoachCB for your help already. The stuff that I've done over all these years just doesn't work right on paper. It's rough feeling like a rookie again, but this is almost a completely different game.
Thanks, OJW
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Post by coachcb on Jan 16, 2012 10:12:50 GMT -6
CB said, "I think an 11-man coach could learn alot about proper defensive fundamentals and their EXTREME importance in 8-man. There is a lot of open grass to play around with in an 8-man game; one missed tackle can result in a score." CB, this is what scares me. Although the game is similar, all that space is really messing with my head. I am counting on getting alot of help here. Thanks for Carookie starting this post. But man o man, I've got a long way to go. OJW The better defenses around here are operating what would be considered "prevent" schemes. The 3-2-3/3-4-1 are becoming really prevalent. We were only shut down completely by one team this last year and they played a 3-2-3 with their CBs/OLBs playing 5-6 yards deep and 3-4 yards off of the EMLOS. Their safety was 10 yards deep. The ILBs played force; turning everything back inside for the CBs/OLBs to clean up. Everyone took awesome angles to the ball, shed and tackled well and just played sound fundamental defense all afternoon. We just couldn't break anything on them and we were used to 3-4 20+ yard pops a game. The made is move it incrementally down the field and waited for us to make mistakes. Our guys got frustrated and fell apart. |
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 16, 2012 10:28:26 GMT -6
CB said, "I think an 11-man coach could learn alot about proper defensive fundamentals and their EXTREME importance in 8-man. There is a lot of open grass to play around with in an 8-man game; one missed tackle can result in a score." CB, this is what scares me. Although the game is similar, all that space is really messing with my head. I am counting on getting alot of help here. Thanks for Carookie starting this post. But man o man, I've got a long way to go. OJW The better defenses around here are operating what would be considered "prevent" schemes. The 3-2-3/3-4-1 are becoming really prevalent. We were only shut down completely by one team this last year and they played a 3-2-3 with their CBs/OLBs playing 5-6 yards deep and 3-4 yards off of the EMLOS. Their safety was 10 yards deep. The ILBs played force; turning everything back inside for the CBs/OLBs to clean up. Everyone took awesome angles to the ball, shed and tackled well and just played sound fundamental defense all afternoon. We just couldn't break anything on them and we were used to 3-4 20+ yard pops a game. The made is move it incrementally down the field and waited for us to make mistakes. Our guys got frustrated and fell apart. I've always felt the 3-2 Monster, is the best defense, but just my personal opinion. FS acts as a 3rd LB, but has enough depth away from the 2 ILB he is able to navigate the flow and make plays. The Defense is predicated on containing the C gaps, and forcing everything into the two A-Gaps - Allowing the Monster to come and clean up. |
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Post by coachcb on Jan 16, 2012 10:40:49 GMT -6
coachshepherd, We played the 3-2 Monster and had some success with it. But we found ourselves in our 3-4-1 adjustment more often than not so we just stuck with it.
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 16, 2012 11:03:39 GMT -6
coachshepherd, We played the 3-2 Monster and had some success with it. But we found ourselves in our 3-4-1 adjustment more often than not so we just stuck with it. When they spread the field? That is typically what we did. But if we against a primarily 2 RB set, we were in a Monster D, just feel like it helps shut down anything an offense can present. coachcb - what do you do out of your 3-4? Do you Slant, play 2-gap? |
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