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quittng
Dec 3, 2011 23:58:16 GMT -6
Post by coachirish on Dec 3, 2011 23:58:16 GMT -6
I recently finished my first year as head coach. We won 5 games and qualified for the playoffs. The school had previously been on a 2 year losing streak. We definately have kids excited about football. In the past few years there would always be kids that would start the season and then quit if they didn't like the playing time. I understand this is going to happen but I want to try to cut back on it. I am making every kid who quit last season run 10 miles in 3 days to get back on the team. Anybody do anything like this?
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Post by fantom on Dec 4, 2011 7:39:10 GMT -6
I recently finished my first year as head coach. We won 5 games and qualified for the playoffs. The school had previously been on a 2 year losing streak. We definately have kids excited about football. In the past few years there would always be kids that would start the season and then quit if they didn't like the playing time. I understand this is going to happen but I want to try to cut back on it. I am making every kid who quit last season run 10 miles in 3 days to get back on the team. Anybody do anything like this? I don't think I understand what that's supposed to accomplish. |
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Post by blb on Dec 4, 2011 7:58:50 GMT -6
I recently finished my first year as head coach. We won 5 games and qualified for the playoffs. The school had previously been on a 2 year losing streak. We definately have kids excited about football. In the past few years there would always be kids that would start the season and then quit if they didn't like the playing time. I understand this is going to happen but I want to try to cut back on it. I am making every kid who quit last season run 10 miles in 3 days to get back on the team. Anybody do anything like this? I don't think I understand what that's supposed to accomplish. Apparently, to keep their numbers down. They're teenagers. Sometimes they make hasty or short-sighted decisions. We would not do anything such as you propose. If a kid wants to try again next year and is eligible, let 'em. |
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 4, 2011 8:40:27 GMT -6
I recently finished my first year as head coach. We won 5 games and qualified for the playoffs. The school had previously been on a 2 year losing streak. We definately have kids excited about football. In the past few years there would always be kids that would start the season and then quit if they didn't like the playing time. I understand this is going to happen but I want to try to cut back on it. I am making every kid who quit last season run 10 miles in 3 days to get back on the team. Anybody do anything like this? You're trying to boost numbers/keep numbers up and you want to punish these kids with 10 miles of running? That doesn't make any sense. This is high school. I strongly believe at this level that every new season is a clean slate. If someone quit the previous season, this is their chance to redeem themselves. For example. We had a player that was very good as freshman on the freshman team. His sophomore year he played JV and a little varsity. He felt he should be playing more varsity and quit. He didn't play his junior year and decided to comeback this year for his senior year. He started with a clean slate this year and had a very successful season. |
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Post by carookie on Dec 4, 2011 9:17:29 GMT -6
I see both sides of this argument, you want to keep decent numbers to further support your programs growth; but in the same vein you don't want kids to think they can just skip their underclassmen years (and all the growth that comes along with that) it is a dangerous precedence to set. Especially since this kid has already proven he is willing top quit. My first piece of advice is talk to the kid, find out why he quit and why he wants to comeback; assure him that he has had his second chance and will get no slack.
I'd also recommend letting your seniors vote, anonimously if possible to prevent peer pressure; in most cases they will vote to let the kid back. But if they care about the success of the team they will vote down a kid who will be a cancer or just quit again.
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Post by coachbuck on Dec 4, 2011 9:41:00 GMT -6
I think letting kids vote is a bad idea. I agree with the other coaches, every year is a new year. Evaluate the talent you have and put the best on the field.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 10:23:18 GMT -6
Post by tvt50 on Dec 4, 2011 10:23:18 GMT -6
only 10 miles? come on bear bryant make it 20 lol
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 10:34:59 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 4, 2011 10:34:59 GMT -6
coachirish--I understand what you are trying to accomplish, I just don't know if it can be done through negative reinforcement methods.
How big is the school? What kind of numbers do you have frosh-Sr? How many teams do you offer (frosh, jv, varsity etc?)
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 10:51:21 GMT -6
Post by coachirish on Dec 4, 2011 10:51:21 GMT -6
The school has averaged about 25 to 30 players on the entire team the last few years and that is when they were on a 25 game losing streak. I understand the clean slate theory but I believe there should be consequences to choices. We finished last season with 26 players and had a .500 record, winning more games than the school had won in 7 years. Giving players consequences to their actions was the best thing I did this season.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 11:06:21 GMT -6
Post by blb on Dec 4, 2011 11:06:21 GMT -6
The consequences of quitting are they don't get to be part of the team, play, or earn a letter.
I think you are heading unnecessarily towards some self-defeating stuff here.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 11:51:12 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Dec 4, 2011 11:51:12 GMT -6
You want consequences? Make them go through your full offseason program. If they play another sport have them come in early. I love football and I wouldn't do what you're making them do.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 12:36:45 GMT -6
Post by wingtol on Dec 4, 2011 12:36:45 GMT -6
I coach at a small school as well so I have to ask...you have 30 kids and playing time is an issue? Dang. If you can't find the field with 30 guys wow.
But anyways...a kid quits in the middle of the year on us? Thanks for coming out hope you have success in something else because you aren't gonna be back on this team. Now there are exceptions, we have a kid who hung it up in camp because for some severe anxiety issues. He's coming back this year to try and play after a few years off. I understand that.
Also if a kid hangs it up at the end of a year then decides they want to come back and play again, that's ok at least they made it through a season.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 14:19:52 GMT -6
Post by coachirish on Dec 4, 2011 14:19:52 GMT -6
I had been on a staff were a few kids quit during a game and then were allowed to come back next season like it never happened only to quit during a game again. I've noticed that once a kid quits once his chances of quitting again go way up.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 14:37:17 GMT -6
Post by ftbll7801 on Dec 4, 2011 14:37:17 GMT -6
Quit me once and I will let you come back...quit me a second season and I don't let them back out.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 15:41:39 GMT -6
Post by blb on Dec 4, 2011 15:41:39 GMT -6
So, you have a kid or two who decides he made a mistake.
He decides he'll try your 10 miles in three days thing to get another chance.
He's in less than optimum physical (and probably mental-emotional) shape - and he collapses while trying and is in an emergency situation.
You justify this - how?
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 18:35:43 GMT -6
Post by syfbcoach on Dec 4, 2011 18:35:43 GMT -6
I agree with ftbll7801. Sometimes kids quit for a variety of reasons, some are legitimate and some that are not (girlfriends is a big one). Quitting can become a habit. If a kid quits once, the slate is clean beginning with the off season program. If he quits again, he is done. Go run cross country.
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quittng
Dec 4, 2011 19:11:21 GMT -6
Post by newt21 on Dec 4, 2011 19:11:21 GMT -6
I think that the best way to make them earn their way back and to prove themselves to their teammates is to set a specific number of offseason workouts that they must attend to be able to participate the next year. Make them prove that they are committed by doing this and it will benefit them (getting them physically ready to play) and it will benefit the team (shows their dedication).
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Post by blb on Dec 5, 2011 6:35:01 GMT -6
It is against MHSAA regulations to make out-of-season activities a criteria for team membership.
What OP proposed strikes me as punitive and like fantom I don't know what else it's expected to accomplish.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 5, 2011 9:15:19 GMT -6
If you want the kids that quit to do something extra what about some sort of community volunteer work. I don't like the idea of physical punishment in this situation.
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Post by k on Dec 5, 2011 9:54:04 GMT -6
Come out for spring practice and decide you don't like it? Its cool you're welcome to give it a try next year. You didn't quit you came out for the trial period and chose not to join the team. No hard feelings.
Quit on the team after the first day of fall practice? Go play soccer or run cross country cause you're done with football.
Approach with freshmen is different. You're welcome out at any point in the season and if you decide its not for you that is ok too. The day the freshman season ends you're considered a sophomore in the program.
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quittng
Dec 5, 2011 13:19:20 GMT -6
Post by dblwngr on Dec 5, 2011 13:19:20 GMT -6
Sounds like we are about the same size as you guys, 30-40 kids each year. We fund raise each off season to pay the participation fee's for all of our kids. The catch is....you quit, you owe the fee! We have the parents write a check at the beginning of the season and if their kids doesn't quit, the check gets returned. It's amazing how much more support you get from the parents concerning "finishing what you start" when the repercussions effect them as well.  |
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quittng
Dec 5, 2011 13:24:03 GMT -6
Post by spos21ram on Dec 5, 2011 13:24:03 GMT -6
Sounds like we are about the same size as you guys, 30-40 kids each year. We fund raise each off season to pay the participation fee's for all of our kids. The catch is....you quit, you owe the fee! We have the parents write a check at the beginning of the season and if their kids doesn't quit, the check gets returned. It's amazing how much more support you get from the parents concerning "finishing what you start" when the repercussions effect them as well. Good idea. To the couple others that have said if you quit during the season then you are done with football completely are you even able to that? I'm pretty sure our AD wouldn't let us turn kids away. Now if the kid does something extreme before/while in the process of quitting like swearing/yelling at coaches, physical altercation of some sort, then yes that's easy to never allow the kid back the following year. But if the kid just quietly comes to you as the HC coach and says he's quitting then I don't think legally we can turn him away the following year. Doesn't mean we'd have to give him playing time, but to just turn a kid away I don't think you can do that. |
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quittng
Dec 5, 2011 13:59:39 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Dec 5, 2011 13:59:39 GMT -6
Sounds like we are about the same size as you guys, 30-40 kids each year. We fund raise each off season to pay the participation fee's for all of our kids. The catch is....you quit, you owe the fee! We have the parents write a check at the beginning of the season and if their kids doesn't quit, the check gets returned. It's amazing how much more support you get from the parents concerning "finishing what you start" when the repercussions effect them as well. Good idea. To the couple others that have said if you quit during the season then you are done with football completely are you even able to that? I'm pretty sure our AD wouldn't let us turn kids away. Now if the kid does something extreme before/while in the process of quitting like swearing/yelling at coaches, physical altercation of some sort, then yes that's easy to never allow the kid back the following year. But if the kid just quietly comes to you as the HC coach and says he's quitting then I don't think legally we can turn him away the following year. Doesn't mean we'd have to give him playing time, but to just turn a kid away I don't think you can do that. Meybe some of these guys have more players than we do but I can't see turning away a kid who can help us. |
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Post by ajreaper on Dec 6, 2011 9:11:18 GMT -6
This is what I have found over the years- quitting is a part of one's charactor. It is who and what a person is- things are tough or I am not getting what I want then I quit. Very rarely does this change. I don't have any problem with setting conditions that require them to 1) show a strong desire to return, 2) place them in circumstances that gives them the easy out and see if they take it and 3) demonstrate to their former team mates a strong desire to return and a willingness to earn back trust from coaches and players.
I think teenagers need to understand quitting comes with consequences- in the real world rarely does quitting allow one an immeadiate clean slate with those you quit on. It's like declaring bankrupcty having your debt discharged then going back to the same creditors and "saying I have changed my ways you can count on me now so how about granting me some credit"?
You can grant them a second chance but it should come with a price and explain to them they are in a different sub group of the teams players- those guys have earned my trust and I have faith in them while you have to earn that trust back.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 6, 2011 9:16:52 GMT -6
Coach, is this about teaching the kids a lesson or about your frustration with them quitting? I will echo those who have said running them will accomplish nothing. I do understand your frustration; I had a kid walk on me halfway through his sophomore season but came back out this year as a junior. He just showed up during two-a-days; I had no idea he planned on playing
. He had a good year but I pulled him aside early on and told him that, although I wiped the slate clean for myself, his teammates weren't going to be so forgiving. He had something o prove to them.
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bjones
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84 
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quittng
Dec 6, 2011 10:00:49 GMT -6
Post by bjones on Dec 6, 2011 10:00:49 GMT -6
What are some specific things that a kid would have to do to get back on the team? How does he have to earn that trust back?
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quittng
Dec 6, 2011 10:15:17 GMT -6
Post by coachfd on Dec 6, 2011 10:15:17 GMT -6
Just a thought...
I would have every member (returning &prospective) of the team write an essay about "What it means to play for the ______'s football family." Have them all think about and express what playing football means to them, what playing for their particular school & program means to them (or if they aren't happy with what it stands for: what they WANT it to stand for, because they can help make it happen during their time within the program), and also why they play the game of football in general: both why (ie-fun, winning, scholarships, their future, etc.) and WHO (ie-mom or dad--people who sacrificed for them, brother or sister--people who look up to them; their own future family, their best friend's memory, their teammates, their coaches, etc.)
If it means something to each individual, and if they can identify that meaning, (and even express it: have them share whatever they would like with the team) then they are going to INVEST themselves more into the team.
Just my thoughts
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quittng
Dec 6, 2011 10:15:48 GMT -6
Post by John Knight on Dec 6, 2011 10:15:48 GMT -6
One of my best lineman this past year was a senior who sat out his JR year. His parents divorced and he was depressed. I blew it off, and said we don't need him. He was a great player for us and didn't miss a game this year, which I would have bet my stipend would not have happened, glad there were no takers.
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quittng
Dec 6, 2011 10:26:58 GMT -6
Post by coachfd on Dec 6, 2011 10:26:58 GMT -6
Make it mean something to play football in your program: a simple idea for a team-building exercise:
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quittng
Dec 6, 2011 10:35:34 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Dec 6, 2011 10:35:34 GMT -6
Years ago we had a kid quit and the circumstances weren't pretty. He cussed out the HC so badly that we had to stop the other players from kicking his a$$. He was a sophomore. He sat out his junior year but before his senior year he went to the HC and literally begged to come back. We talked to some players and they agreed that he was sincere. We told him that he could come back out if he made every workout and kept his nose clean.
He ended up being an all-conference player, joined the Army after graduation, and became a productive citizen and a good father. Frankly I'm not sure that he would have made it if he'd stated on the path he was on.
What did it cost? It would have been just as easy to get rid of him as it was to keep him.
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