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Post by superpower on Nov 13, 2006 13:44:42 GMT -6
Coaches, I know that not everyone will agree with me, but I am going to use this thread to vent my frustrations with our all-league selection process.
The league coaches met about a week ago after submitting nominations in advance. Being new to the league, I wasn't sure what to expect; and being in a league with some very good talent, I chose to nominate only those players whom I felt really deserved to be selected to an all-league team. I don't believe in nominating kids just so I can tell their parents that they were nominated. Our league selects 12 offensive and 12 defensive players and then 6 honorable mentions on both sides of the ball.
We finished as league runner-up, but I only nominated three offensive players and three defensive players (the kids from our team who I felt were deserving of the honor). We were 4-2 in the league while the league champ was 6-0. Another team, whom we beat head to head, was 4-2; two teams were 3-3; another team was 1-5; and the last team was 0-6. My experience has been that league finish should have some bearing on all-league selection, but that wasn't the case. The first place team had 10 players named either all-league or honorable mention. The third place team had 7 kids honored, while the fourth and fifth place teams each had 6 kids honored. The sixth place team had 3 kids honored, and the last place team had 1 kid honored. Based on those numbers, it would be fair to expect that the league runner-up would have had at least 6 kids honored, but we only had 3 kids honored (2 on offense and 1 on defense with no honorable mentions).
I am sure some people will say it was my own fault for not nominating more kids, but I would argue that nominating just to nominate waters down the process. I would agree, however, that some coaches do use that approach (and it is obvious that some of those coaches are in our league). The last place team, which gave up 41 ppg, nominated 4 kids on defense! How can that coach justify those nominations? The third place team gave up 24 ppg, but their coach nominated 8 defensive players. Again, how can he justify those nominations? The fifth place team was 3-3 in the league, but they nominated 7 players on offense and 7 on defense. I would hope that if I had 7 offensive and 7 defensive players worthy of all-league selection that I would be better than .500 in the league. And if I had 4 all-league types on defense, I wouldn't be giving up 41 ppg. And 8 all-league kids on defense should mean that my team only gave up two TDs per game.
My kids are upset and I have a long memory. The message that was sent is that we didn't beat people badly enough to earn more recognition for what our kids did on the field, and the one good unintended consequence is that our players are using this for even more motivation.
I am interested in how others would handle this situation.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 13, 2006 14:05:59 GMT -6
superpower -
Is this you?
From coachwyatt.com:
A coaching friend related to me a horror story about his league's all-star selection process. Essentially, several of the teams he finished ahead of nominated slews of kids while he nominated only those he considered worthy, and as a result, lesser teams wound up with a disproportionate number of all-star selections.
Here's what I wrote:
Of all the things I like about coaching football, I think post-season all-star selections is one of the things I like least.
Having worked for three years in the Portland Interscholastic League, I must say that for all the many things that the league does wrong, it did get the All-Star thing as fair and as painless as you can get.
(1) The league e-mailed out a blank roster for teams to fill in their nominations with appropriate comments for each player. The number of nominations a team could make was based on its league finish. (I can't tell you exactly how the nominations were apportioned, but I can tell you that if you're tied for last place, you won't get more than four or five nominations.) Coaches marked up their ballots and e-mailed them to the league office.
(2) After receiving the nominations, the office then printed all names (and appropriate comments) on a ballot and e-mailed the ballots to all head coaches (10-team league) as word documents
(3) Coaches marked up their ballots and e-mailed them back to the league office.
(4) Results were published.
No muss, no fuss, no meetings, no long-winded B-S by the last-place coach about how great his kid was. And no way that a last-place team can nominate 15 players. (I've often wondered if those coaches realize what it says about them to have had so many good players and yet finish dead last.)
PS- What never ceases to amaze me is how much effort coaches will put into getting a punter onto the all-league second team, but they won't get off their ass to write a letter nominating a deserving kid for the Black Lion Award.
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Post by PowerDown on Nov 13, 2006 14:12:44 GMT -6
I love that statement about wondering if those coaches realize what it says about them to have had so many good players and yet finish dead last. Most coaches I know that do that justify it by throwing every other kid on their team under the bus saying that the star players nominated had no support. Yet the following year they nominate those same players they said were not very good.
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Post by knight9299 on Nov 13, 2006 14:28:21 GMT -6
Every conference/district I've been involved with has a slotted number of guys based on the teams finish in said conference or district. On the subject of post season awards. How about a head coach voting for himself as coach of the year? That guy is a real diamond in the rough  |
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Post by superpower on Nov 13, 2006 14:42:49 GMT -6
wildcat, that would be me in Coach Wyatt's reference.
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Post by coachpoe on Nov 13, 2006 14:47:16 GMT -6
Agree...In our league it is terrible. Under our last head coach, who nominated just about everybody, we had numerous all-league selections no matter what our record was. Under our current head coach, who nominates just the people he considers to be worthy, we get shafted. We had a player who our coach did nominate, who was the best tackle in the league period, who didn't even make honorable mention. It seems like it is just a power brokering between coaches and is essentially meaningless, to me at least. Just feel bad for our kids who deserve to be on the team and didn't make because other coaches nominated undeserving guys, it sucks.
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Post by superpower on Nov 13, 2006 15:34:00 GMT -6
I think the ideas listed by Coach Hugh Wyatt above make sense...allot nominations according to league finish. That would make it fair.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Nov 13, 2006 18:52:53 GMT -6
For us, the number of all conference players on each team is determined by conference standings. Each coach nominates his allotted number of all conference honorees and then 1 or 2 honorable mentions. 2 of the total honorable mentions are then voted in on as being all conference as well. Coach of the year just goes to the conference champion. Only thing voted on and debated on is the MVP awards and such.
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Post by fbdoc on Nov 13, 2006 20:15:28 GMT -6
Our conference sets the # of nominations based upon final standings. First Place gets 10, second place 8, third gets 6, etc. Definitely eliminates the last place mega-nominations. SUggest you present a plan to your conference coaches before the season starts next year.
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neil
Sophomore Member
Posts: 218
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Post by neil on Nov 13, 2006 20:57:09 GMT -6
We went 10-0, 5-0 in District. Our defense led the District in scoring defense and was 3rd in the state. I put up our best LB for 1st team, even though two of them were worthy. We have 6 teams in district. 5 LB's were nominated. The 6th coach who didn't nominate a LB had to break the 5-way tie. He said he did not want to have to pick the player who wouldn't make it. So he drew names out of a hat! Of course, it was our LB who was the odd man out. The 2nd and 3rd place finishers in district told me that they were going to vote for him as the District MVP for Defense.
We only had 2 players make 1st team Defense and we were District Champs and undefeated with the best Offense and Defense in the District.
I took it as a compliment to our obviously superior coaching, since they must think our players stink, and we still whipped thier butts!! (I'm being sarcastic of course).
I like the idea of the slotted number of positions according to district finish.
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Post by airman on Nov 13, 2006 21:32:04 GMT -6
I do not like these all confrence, all region, all state teams. football is a team sport team should be nominated not players. these teams give players the idea they are some how great.
I know the media will do it but coaches should not endorse these teams. heck, I do not even believe in a starting lineup. we introduce the team as a group.
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Post by knighter on Nov 13, 2006 22:10:36 GMT -6
Greg-
Get this in our district (league)
Each place get's a specific number of picks as set by the coaches of each team...then there is not even a VOTE. Those are the guys who are on. No debating at all. We can' t even field a team with the guys on either side of the ball unless we are going to play a 2-7-2 defense. And our district winning coach is automatically the coach of the year in the district (not that I wanted it, hell I said I had no problem with him being it when it was debated by fellow coaches who do not like him at all).
Our all district selection process screws kids who deserve to be on base on quality of play. I know I had 2 OL better than some of the OL that are first teamers this year.
I believe you nominate a person at each position, you vote as coaches and winners get on based on how they played. So an all district kid wins by majority of votes (even a first teamer could have a bad game or two and still make it). All district is a joke, and all state is even worse at the moment.
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Post by brophy on Nov 14, 2006 8:17:21 GMT -6
What I really don't like about these teams is either the bias towards winning teams (putting entire rosters on the league team) or voting kids in based on their size or recruiting process.
I know there have been several players I've seen that can play the pants off of the State Champ teams, but because they had a poor W/L record, those kids don't get a whiff of the top teams. Meanwhile, the kid who's 6'4" 280 lbs gets the 1st team ballot, even though HIS PLAY was about that of a 5'11" - 201 lbs kid....
I dunno.....super rant...I know (still {censored} not one of our defensive players got 1st team mention last year.......when it was pretty clear #22 kicked everyone's ass single-handedly)
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Post by superpower on Nov 14, 2006 8:23:28 GMT -6
There is no perfect way to select these teams, and I am going to spin it as our superior TEAMWORK didn't allow for many of our players to shine individually. However, it really does suck when you know that your kids are better than some of the schmucks who will get their names in the paper.
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Post by brophy on Nov 14, 2006 9:07:22 GMT -6
Oh.....and EVERY year......the only true SPREAD team in the conference complains that their QB didn't get 1st team QB.....arguing "Well, he threw for 2,400 yards!"
Even though there are option QBs who were better field general's and leaders (AND throwers) than this guy...but arguments based off of stats get fuzzy.
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Post by superpower on Nov 14, 2006 9:45:40 GMT -6
Good point, Brophy. Stats can carry too much weight as they really are relative to what system a kid is in.
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Nov 14, 2006 10:35:29 GMT -6
good point- we had a LBer who made 121 tackles this year (2nd in conference) had 6 sacks 9 TFL 3FF and 2 FR.
Sounds like a 1st teamer, but we were terrible and our defense never left the field. Plus, the majority of his tackles came 4 or 5 yards downfield. He didn't even receive honorable mention (I would have at least given him that)
Don't get me wrong, he is a good and will be a great player. But, he didn't deserve first team. We ran into players that made every play and were a ton better. But, they were so good they kept the ball on offense all the time. It is tough because we want recognition for our players, but I think all-conference stuff just ends up being politics or stats too often.
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Post by superpower on Nov 14, 2006 10:38:22 GMT -6
Greg- Get this in our district (league) Each place get's a specific number of picks as set by the coaches of each team...then there is not even a VOTE. Those are the guys who are on. No debating at all. We can' t even field a team with the guys on either side of the ball unless we are going to play a 2-7-2 defense. And our district winning coach is automatically the coach of the year in the district (not that I wanted it, hell I said I had no problem with him being it when it was debated by fellow coaches who do not like him at all). Our all district selection process screws kids who deserve to be on base on quality of play. I know I had 2 OL better than some of the OL that are first teamers this year. I believe you nominate a person at each position, you vote as coaches and winners get on based on how they played. So an all district kid wins by majority of votes (even a first teamer could have a bad game or two and still make it). All district is a joke, and all state is even worse at the moment. Brad, I agree, and it makes me wonder why we even bother with the all-league and all-state stuff. So many of these all-star teams are a joke. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 14, 2006 10:43:50 GMT -6
the politics of the all-conference teams ........and how it insinuates All-State selections.
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Post by los on Nov 14, 2006 10:59:37 GMT -6
#22 gets my vote Brophy! KATN's, lol.
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bigcroz
Junior Member
Go STAGS!!
Posts: 356
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Post by bigcroz on Nov 14, 2006 11:48:45 GMT -6
OUr place in the conference gets the team a certain number of nominatiions. Then all the coaches get together and blah, blah, blah....about each of their kids then we all vote. not too bad except for the politics. Now the kicker. If a kid is voted as first team anything he cannot be voted for for any other position, regardless if he was the best player at both positions or not. Case in point, last year we had a kid voted first team LB, very nice! However he was voted by the media to the all-state team as a RB. To me it is hard to understand how someone could not even be in the 2 best RB in the conference but be in the top backs in the state. The only 1 award thing is IMO the participation ribbon!!!!! rant over.
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Post by tribepride on Nov 14, 2006 12:21:04 GMT -6
We must have one of the most laid back conferences around. Each team is givinen x amount of all conference and honorable mentions based on your place out of eight teams. Team coaches then decide how they want to divide up their picks for their own team. There are two at large all-conference selections that can be debated but who ever asks for one will usally get it. No fuss....it really goes quite well. The bottom two or three teams usually give back an all-conference selection because they feel they don't deserve them and then the teams that do can pick up another selection for their team.
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