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Post by fantom on Oct 31, 2011 14:33:20 GMT -6
I'm interested in the playoff systems in different states. What I'm looking for is the threshold for missing the playoffs in your area. What is the best record that you regularly see teams miss the playoffs with?
PLEASE RESTRICT THIS TO HIGH SCHOOL VARSITY. I want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples.
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Post by gapshoot76 on Oct 31, 2011 14:45:59 GMT -6
Technically 5-4 in illinois this year but voted 6-4 with losses
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Post by kcbazooka on Oct 31, 2011 14:51:35 GMT -6
theorectically in mIssouri you could finish 9-1 and not make the playoffs -- on the other hand we have three 1-9 teams that made the playoffs this year -- two from each four team district and then points if a tie is what matters. Change is coming next year where we will have eight team districts and seed after the ninth game - then just like baseball/basketball state tournaments- everybody is in.
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Post by fballcoachg on Oct 31, 2011 15:17:12 GMT -6
Just looked at the Ohio playoffs and saw atleast three 9-1 teams that didn't get in and a slew of 8-2 teams, some because of a stacked region some because of strength of schedule. Either situation has to be rough for your kids.
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Post by fballcoachg on Oct 31, 2011 15:18:35 GMT -6
Just thouroughly read the title, this is this year only not regularly but I would assume that there are regularly 8-2 teams that are left packing their lockers.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 31, 2011 15:33:52 GMT -6
At 1-7 we had to see how the other 1-win team played, and they won, otherwise we'd have gotten in on tiebreaker after we split a home-and-home. Which is weird, because it's an 8-team league, but they drop the bottom team in each division and give byes to the top 2, why not just invite everyone at that point?
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Post by coachcb on Oct 31, 2011 15:43:33 GMT -6
theorectically in mIssouri you could finish 9-1 and not make the playoffs -- on the other hand we have three 1-9 teams that made the playoffs this year -- two from each four team district and then points if a tie is what matters. Change is coming next year where we will have eight team districts and seed after the ninth game - then just like baseball/basketball state tournaments- everybody is in. Holy sh-t, do they get a participation trophy and a cookie too? Go 1-9 and make the playoffs? We were 2-5 on the year and there's no way in h-ll we deserved a playoff game. |
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Post by Defcord on Oct 31, 2011 15:52:11 GMT -6
In Indiana everyone is in. We have had multiple teams with losing records win state though. Our conferences are not based on school size though. They are based on location so we have some classes with 2A schools an 5A schools in the same conference. If it is all about the kids our system is fine in my eyes. It would be nice to see it seeded though.
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Post by shamespiral on Oct 31, 2011 16:59:07 GMT -6
In La. It's all strength of schedule. Sometimes 7 win teams don't make it. Sometimes 2 & 3 win teams do. Just never know. 6 wins will get you in most years.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 31, 2011 17:36:12 GMT -6
In La. It's all strength of schedule. Sometimes 7 win teams don't make it. Sometimes 2 & 3 win teams do. Just never know. 6 wins will get you in most years. I don't know about that coach. I can't recall a 7 win team not making the playoffs since the advent of power points. However, due to the Louisiana power point system, there is a greater propensity for the smaller classifications to get teams with worse records in--bonus points for playing up. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Oct 31, 2011 17:47:26 GMT -6
In Texas ...
Class 5A ... 32 total districts - with 6 to 8 teams in a district (a few have 10 teams)
top 4 teams from each district will make the playoffs - based solely on league games. meaning, you could play in a 6 team district, go 0-5 in nonleague, then win 2 games in your district and depending on how the tiebreaker worked out in your league games you could get in. rare, but happens.
Same thing in 4A
In 3A - only top 3 teams will go.
2A, 1A - same.
So, it isn't all that rare for 4-6 teams to make the playoffs. There have been many instances where a 4-6 played a 10-0 in 1st round & won... 2 years ago a 4-6 team played to the state quarterfinals - they won 3 playoff games and finished 7-7. 13 years a program I was involved in went 6-4 in the regular season - then won State... defeating 2 undefeated teams in the playoffs.
If you look solely at overall record, it can be misleading. A team in a neighboring district will make the playoffs this year at 3-7. They are a 3A school & played 5 non-district games, losing them all. They then went 3-2 in district. Are they not deserving because they played four 4A teams (a classification up) in non-district - 3 of which are playoff teams themselves - and a playoff bound 3A team - even though they lost to all of them?
Is a team that plays 4 slaps in nondistrict, going 4-0, then gets into their district and loses 4 games any more worthy? They finished 6-4... but didn't win the games that mattered... are they more worthy than the 3-7 team?
We don't get to pick our districts. We don't get to pick the criteria for the 'selection' process. We know what it is going in, and have to play by these rules. All that matters is that you knew the game before you played, and either you did what was asked or you didn't.
As for other states ... I can't answer that. But, if it is a power ranking thing, then I guess scheduling is a much bigger factor. Since we don't use ratings - and go solely on leagues that were assigned to us - scheduling is totally moot in regards to whether you make the playoffs. So, it is a little harder to say one team is 'more worthy' or 'not worthy' of a playoff spot.
I feel for the guys that have to deal with computer rankings, coaches polls, or whatever subjective criteria is being used. Obviously, objective is better, but even that may not be perfect as some districts (leagues) are just stacked from the outset... there is a district east of here where the 4th place team (not going to playoffs) could probably be the league CHAMPION in several other districts across the state. THAT'S not fair, but it is what it is, since leagues are geographic for the most part. At the same time their 5-5 record isn't necessarily an indication they are a mediocre team anymore than someone else's 9-1 record 100% equates to them being a great team.
Creating change may be beneficial to some... may not help other organizations.... but it is different from state to state.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 31, 2011 19:32:50 GMT -6
4 Regions (conferences) per Division:
Region 1 #1 vs. Region 2 #4
Region 3 #2 vs. Region 4 #3
Region 2 #1 vs. Region 3 #4
Region 4 #2 vs. Region 1 #3
Region 3 #1 vs. Region 4 #4
Region 1 #2 vs. Region 2 #3
Region 4 #1 vs. Region 1 #4
Region 2 #2 vs. Region 3 #3
Conference records are the only consideration. This year has had a few interesting seedings. One team started season 5-0 and lost 4 of 5 conference games so they ended 5-5 and are out. Another team was shutout the first 5 weeks but won 3 of their conference games so they made the playoffs with a 3-7 record.
I like it much better than the CA "BCS" system where teams are arbitrarily ranked and not everyone is given a fair shot. Regions (conferences) must have all schools of the same size (All D1's or All D2's). In CA there is a league with everything from D1 all the way to D5 in the same league. Making an accurate comparison of teams is impossible in that case.
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Post by coachguy83 on Oct 31, 2011 20:11:43 GMT -6
In Illinois all teams 6-3 or better and confrence champions make the playoffs automatically, but 5-4 teams are elgible. There are 256 playoff spots which they put in all of the 6-3 or better teams and confrence champions and fill out the rest with 5-4 teams based on playoff points. Playoff points are simply the total wins of all of your opponents. Once they have the 256 teams they then divide the bracket into eight classes based on enrollment.
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Post by shamespiral on Oct 31, 2011 20:12:42 GMT -6
In La. It's all strength of schedule. Sometimes 7 win teams don't make it. Sometimes 2 & 3 win teams do. Just never know. 6 wins will get you in most years. I don't know about that coach. I can't recall a 7 win team not making the playoffs since the advent of power points. However, due to the Louisiana power point system, there is a greater propensity for the smaller classifications to get teams with worse records in--bonus points for playing up. South Terrebonne didn't make it last year. I think New Iberia will have seven and they won't make it this year. Happens in 5A because there are no bonus points. |
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Post by carookie on Oct 31, 2011 20:40:38 GMT -6
4 Regions (conferences) per Division:I like it much better than the CA "BCS" system where teams are arbitrarily ranked and not everyone is given a fair shot. Regions (conferences) must have all schools of the same size (All D1's or All D2's). In CA there is a league with everything from D1 all the way to D5 in the same league. Making an accurate comparison of teams is impossible in that case. I coached in CA a couple years ago, the BCS thing only takes place for the post playoff state championships. Before that they do have CIF championships; which are the equivalent to state playoffs. The thing about CIF is that there are TEN different sections, and some sections have upwards of 12 divisions (though most have 4 or 5). So basically at the end of the year (before the BCS esque state games) you have about 60 CIF champions. When I was there you'd see some 5-5 teams make it, some 6-4 not; 7-3 was almost a lock to get in. |
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 31, 2011 21:29:44 GMT -6
4 Regions (conferences) per Division:I like it much better than the CA "BCS" system where teams are arbitrarily ranked and not everyone is given a fair shot. Regions (conferences) must have all schools of the same size (All D1's or All D2's). In CA there is a league with everything from D1 all the way to D5 in the same league. Making an accurate comparison of teams is impossible in that case. I coached in CA a couple years ago, the BCS thing only takes place for the post playoff state championships. Before that they do have CIF championships; which are the equivalent to state playoffs. The thing about CIF is that there are TEN different sections, and some sections have upwards of 12 divisions (though most have 4 or 5). So basically at the end of the year (before the BCS esque state games) you have about 60 CIF champions. When I was there you'd see some 5-5 teams make it, some 6-4 not; 7-3 was almost a lock to get in. True... but the section playoffs are seeded arbitrarily as well. Teams that are 9-1 can get a 5-seed while team that is 8-2 can get a 3 seed based on strength of schedule. Always an issue with who plays who. I hated it. |
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CLuttrell
Sophomore Member
OCHS Titians new assistant coach
Posts: 133
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Post by CLuttrell on Oct 31, 2011 21:30:33 GMT -6
I coached in California for 6 years. That system is broken.
Each section has its own playoff format, its own seeding committies, etc. So no section is the same... Thats why there is a poll to decide the final 2 for state championship games in 3 divisions (1, 2, and open).
In the section of CA I coached in, central section, teams decide if they want to participate in playoffs or not. For example, in division 6 there are 9 total teams (83 in the section total...). Of those 9, each team plays another divsional opponents in maybe 5 games. All other games are playing up. So the section allows the school district to set standards for making playoffs!
Awesome example of how messed up the CA system is... The worst single season record in state history was recently set, 0-11. Thats right, they made the playoffs at 0-10, then lost...
Need a CA coach with the CIF record book that came out a few years ago to fact check me on the name of the school, but they are central section.
I have to admit though, after going 0-10 in my final season as a head coach in CA, I was sure glad some other guy went 0-11!
CL
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CLuttrell
Sophomore Member
OCHS Titians new assistant coach
Posts: 133
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Post by CLuttrell on Oct 31, 2011 21:37:55 GMT -6
By the way...
Currently coaching for cqmiller in Utah. Love the system here!
Coach Huey, the Texas system and Utah systems are similar is seems.
CL
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Post by downdownkick on Oct 31, 2011 23:41:02 GMT -6
In Oregon we have a play-in (since last year), which pretty much everyone makes. For example 1-8 Estacada and 0-9 Clackamas are both in it.
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Post by carookie on Nov 1, 2011 8:20:29 GMT -6
Well in AZ its pretty much done by PPTs; the big change here is that this year they did away with leagues/regions. Each state classification is divided into 3 regions, the top 3 ppts from each region automatically advance (final 7 filled out by overall ppts). The issue: there are 12-14 teams per region so you don't play everyone within your region. In fact your region plays no role in your schedule; the computers just schedule the 8 closest teams to you and you get to chose the other 2. Many coaches unhappy with this system
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 1, 2011 8:40:34 GMT -6
Where's the 11-0 choice? Back when I was playing in high school I remmeber reading about a CT team that was 11-0 and they didn't make the playoffs. Kind of crazy.
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Post by ajreaper on Nov 1, 2011 9:01:39 GMT -6
Well in AZ its pretty much done by PPTs; the big change here is that this year they did away with leagues/regions. Each state classification is divided into 3 regions, the top 3 ppts from each region automatically advance (final 7 filled out by overall ppts). The issue: there are 12-14 teams per region so you don't play everyone within your region. In fact your region plays no role in your schedule; the computers just schedule the 8 closest teams to you and you get to chose the other 2. Many coaches unhappy with this system Up until this year I thought AZ had a great system for selecting teams- I guess thats why the interscholastic association decided to "tweak" it was working well and coaches, over all were happy with it. |
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Post by carookie on Nov 1, 2011 9:31:05 GMT -6
Well in AZ its pretty much done by PPTs; the big change here is that this year they did away with leagues/regions. Each state classification is divided into 3 regions, the top 3 ppts from each region automatically advance (final 7 filled out by overall ppts). The issue: there are 12-14 teams per region so you don't play everyone within your region. In fact your region plays no role in your schedule; the computers just schedule the 8 closest teams to you and you get to chose the other 2. Many coaches unhappy with this system Up until this year I thought AZ had a great system for selecting teams- I guess thats why the interscholastic association decided to "tweak" it was working well and coaches, over all were happy with it. Watch yourself, I dont need AIA trying to censor this board too  |
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newb
Sophomore Member
Posts: 191
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Post by newb on Nov 1, 2011 9:32:13 GMT -6
Where's the 11-0 choice? Back when I was playing in high school I remmeber reading about a CT team that was 11-0 and they didn't make the playoffs. Kind of crazy. About 15 years ago in OH a 10-0 team lost out to a 6-4 team even though the 10-0 team beat the 6-4 team by 28 points |
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Post by gdoggwr on Nov 1, 2011 9:50:19 GMT -6
In Kansas the playoffs are based on 4 team districts. we take the top two from each. the districts are geographical so there are regularly 2 loss teams that don't make it (were undefeated regular season then dropped two district games). Occasionally even a 1 lost team doesn't make it.
The flip side is a weak district means losing records get in. there's a 4-5 district champion with a 2-7 runner up for 6A (largest class). I'm sure its the same at the lower classes as well.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 1, 2011 10:06:03 GMT -6
In PA there are 12 districts that host their own playoff system to crown a district champion in 4 class( AAAA-A) the districts have 3-4 weeks for playoffs then the district winners advance to the inner district playoffs to determine a state champ.
Like I said each district is different and takes a different number for each class in each district. Our class has 8 teams in the district playoff while the class above us only has 6 this year. Some big districts, like around Pittsburgh,take 16 in each class. It's not a bad system and seems to work very well. Don't hear much complaining about it.
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Post by fantom on Nov 1, 2011 10:25:30 GMT -6
In Kansas the playoffs are based on 4 team districts. we take the top two from each. the districts are geographical so there are regularly 2 loss teams that don't make it (were undefeated regular season then dropped two district games) For us non-Kansas folk that's going to take some explaining. I don't understand what this means. For us there are 10 regular season (league games + a few non-league games based on how many teams are in your league) games then there are playoffs. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 1, 2011 10:28:55 GMT -6
I'm trying to gather info here. Please, when you're voting, vote for the record that would LIKELY miss the playoffs, not one that you heard about several years ago. If every 8-2 team in your area has made the playoffs over the last ten years except one and you vote 8-2 that scews the numbers.
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Post by blb on Nov 1, 2011 10:33:52 GMT -6
Michigan similar to Illinois.
Nine-game regular season. All teams with six wins (five if eight-game schedule) qualify. Then 5-4 teams with highest playoff point averages to fill out 256 (22 this year).
So best record not to make playoffs would be 5-4.
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Post by tvt50 on Nov 1, 2011 10:42:42 GMT -6
I have been 9-1 and not made it.
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