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Post by touchdowng on Jan 13, 2007 16:16:44 GMT -6
Anybody out there with some specific recommendations (based on practical experience) for a spread team that is going to add some two back stuff to it's arsenal?
We went to the spread because of our lack of strength/size on the Oline and were able to move the ball because of our good skill kids.
As our players get stronger, we'd like to add some two back (under center) to our O systems. We've coached two back (off set I) before with lots of success but want to know if there are some "things" we should be aware of based on experience so that we don't have to go through that trial and error that takes up so much time.
We don't just want to package this and want to be as multiple between two systems as possible.
Thanks for any comments that you have.
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Post by djwesp on Jan 13, 2007 18:51:44 GMT -6
When we play spread teams that go down under center into the I, our eyes usually light up.
I think since you have worked in the I before, your greatest focus should be on run blocking from a 3 point stance. At the high school level, there seems to be a big adjustment for the offensive line to become as aggressive as power oriented teams, also a lot of the running backs have a hard time running more downhill (they tend to dance a lot).
I'd think you'd really have to focus on the attitude it takes to run a 2-3 back offense. That starts in the trenches, and moves into the style of the backs. A good fullback goes a long ways, and if he instills that attitude you have you will probably be successful.
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 14, 2007 9:12:18 GMT -6
Haven't seen that (Offset I in Gun) but have seen the "Pistol" ran by U of Nevada. I will trip down to Reno to spend time with their OC - Kris Klanakis during spring ball. He's (quietly) been one of the better spread people in the country and has ran a spread system for over 12 years at UofN and Southern Miss with great results.
There is a good point made with the mentality of the 3 pt stance with OLINE (out of the I) and a 2 pt OLINE stance from the gun.
Some spread teams up here stay with a 3 point with a lot of success.
We're just exploring right now because we finally have some personnel to do some things.
I was once told by a H/C in the WAC that there was no way we (at my previous H.S.) that we could be effective at the one back and the two back. He felt we could only be decent at one. We stuck with our plan (ran both) and was 2nd in our league in total offense and 1st in scoring offense for two consecutive seasons averaging just under 38 points per game. This was at the hightest classification in the state of Washington.
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 14, 2007 11:22:26 GMT -6
We ran the Gun I formation alot this year we used it in adition to our normal two back gun set. We ran our normal spread plays (IZ, OZ, Zone Read, Dart, Counter)
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Post by lochness on Jan 14, 2007 11:30:51 GMT -6
djwesp-
Why would your eyes "light up?"
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Post by djwesp on Jan 14, 2007 12:31:52 GMT -6
djwesp- Why would your eyes "light up?" Because USUALLY (keyword there), when spread teams try to play in the "power sets" they are playing into our strengths and something that we can usually do better than them. I guess this happens because they don't rep this stuff as much, don't work on that type of running style with the backs, and don't spend much time with the offensive line regaining that very different personality especially with the run blocking. When they pass out of these sets(if they are spread team rarely under center), we usually bring a lot of pressure because the drop back passing game takes time to adjust to, and inside brings pressure relatively quickly to what the QB is used to seeing. We defend the spread fairly well, but obviously, every time a team lines up and tries to play your type of football (especially when they spend a lot of time in something else), your confidence level that you can out execute them goes thru the roof. (this being said, recently a lot of spread teams have began to break the non-physical stereotype, i just think that it is a little harder to teach that mentality from the spread---not impossible) When they can spread the ball out and retain that aggressive/old school football personality you have the best of both worlds. A spread team with the attitude of a Single Wing team, scares the living bejesus out of us and a lot of staffs.
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Post by CVBears on Jan 15, 2007 2:38:44 GMT -6
If you look at toprowguy's diagram, we did have the top formation last year, and we are putting in the bottom one this year. In our spread, we are using the pistol formation as our base. In the bottom formation of the diagram, there are a lot of opportunities to run counter, option, double dive, load option and PA passes, sprint out series and motioning one of the backs into the a 2x2 or 3x1 set out of this formation. Doing this, it keeps the amount of items we have to teach down and the number of looks we give to the defense up.
I am assuming that you have a receiver that can run or a runner that can be a receiver. Hopefully you have two of them. Also, at the start, try aligning your set in your normal spread set and then motioning to two back. This helps making the blending of the systems much easier for the kids; they can see the transition. After motioning for a while, then just have them line up where you want them, if that is the look you are going for.
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hwkfn1
Junior Member
Posts: 258
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Post by hwkfn1 on Jan 15, 2007 12:22:04 GMT -6
We run both spread and I formation. The way I set up practice is that we run our I formation run plays during our Inside run period. At the same time, we running our 7-on-7 spread plays. Since our runs plays can be run both out of spread and I (inside and outside zone and wrap), there is no additional coaching. During our team periods, we run period of spread stuff and one period of I formation stuff. This past season, we had two backs with over 600 yards rushing. One was our I formation back and the other was our Spread formations back. It is very nice, because if one isn't working in a game, we can go to other. So far teams haven't been too successful at stopping both.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2007 12:35:59 GMT -6
I'm just a defensive guy, but something our offense does that gives so many teams problems in our league is how we use our 2nd TE / Fullback / H-back. Our offense specifically finds our best big, fast, athlete to play that spot so we line him up as a WR who can legitimately run routes against secondary players, then line up as a TE and block well. Sometimes he's a fullback. He's not that prototypical H-back, 2nd TE as much as a big receiver. The past three years we've had kids there about 6'3" 210. We'll come out in a doubles right, flop the TE over and shift the H to the backfield and have changed strength and moved to a 2-back. If the QB doesn't get the D adjust he wants to run the ball, he motions that WR/FB into slide motion to get to the point of attack.
Pretty easy how our guys call it. They just will call something like Doubles Left,Queen, Ready 32 and go. Really force the defense to play a different front a lot or to have the ability to shift in and out on the run.
I've gotta give our offensive guys credit, we're a good adjustment team because of them.
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 15, 2007 15:24:01 GMT -6
This will be our 3rd two back set for the up coming year. I think this will put a bind on the D because you can run to the stregth and weakside.
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Post by djwesp on Jan 15, 2007 17:02:19 GMT -6
This will be our 3rd two back set for the up coming year. I think this will put a bind on the D because you can run to the stregth and weakside. You know, you could run a jet spin quadruple option off of that. 1. Ball is snapped to QB, at same time C begins motion. 2. QB takes ball, spins clockwise faking or giving handoff to FB. (#4 is read) 3. QB returns to front, where he is met by C, faking or giving handoff. 4. QB then begins sprint option with tailback. (#3 is read)
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Post by lsrood on Jan 17, 2007 9:36:33 GMT -6
We run both the two back look from the spread and from under center and had no real difficulty switching back and forth. I think the fact that we put equal emphasis in practice to both looks helps along with the fact that we are more of a spread run team than pass, helps with the lineman's run block mentality. We will also run our same plays out of the spread that we do under center like the power, trap, stretch (outside zone) and options. We keep the blocking the same for the line and it is on the backs to make the adjustments depending on their alignment. We will also use the offset I and a one back set in the spread with motion to get the second back involved in the play. Our goal is to give defenses multiple looks to prepare for, while allowing us the maximum amount of reps with essentially the same plays. It worked well enough for us in our first season last fall that we plan to contiune the combination this year.
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Post by dubber on Jan 17, 2007 10:39:07 GMT -6
My $0.02.....if the blocking scheme stays the same from gun to 2-back, there should be little adjustment. Basically, stick with your inside/outside zone, throwing out a power or an iso every now and then. I coached at a small college last year that was spread/2 back hybrid, ran about 50% zone--lead the HCAC in total offense, points scored, etc. Keep working the zone combos. Another thing we found was that it was sometimes easier to pass from a two back look, simly because the defense over-adjusted. I'd say the same amount of passing yards came from our PA out of two back as did our spread game.
One more thing, I've found it better to teach three-point stance with a two-point pass stance as the alternative, as opposed to the alternative.
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Post by gridiron on Jan 17, 2007 11:02:15 GMT -6
toprowguy,
What else are you planning on running from that formation? I am looking at running some gun spread, but don't want to waste a couple of pretty good fullbacks.
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Post by struceri on Jan 17, 2007 11:07:43 GMT -6
we are typically a 4 wide 1 back team but this past season we went primarily 2 back from the gun(back on either side of Qb) and ran mostly inside zone, sweep, dart, option and a little power. We do get under center w/ a 2 te 1 back look and a 2te 2 back I. They are mostly short yardage situations for us but we do use them on any down occasionally. The block rules stayed the same for us because it was mostly zone. We also set aside a 10 minute period in practice where we run nothing but the 2 te stuff. it has really been effective for us and our players love that 10 minute session because it's up tempo and physical.
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Post by ccscoach on Jan 17, 2007 12:09:53 GMT -6
I think that you may want to look at some old Florida State and some current University of Georgia playbooks they do a good job of incorporating the spread and two back stuff in there offense.... A book you may want to look at in Coaching Footballs Fastbreak offense or something like that it outlines florida states attack when Mark Richt was the OC there pretty good stuff from what I have been told.....All and all though coach you can definately run the both a 2 back and spread attack. Formations aren't what gets tricky its the number of blocking schemes you have if you run IZ, OZ, Counter/ Power, and Trap. You have 4 blocking schemes well some would argue 3 but four at the most, with the zone nothing changes but what the backs might do same with the counter/power stuff, Reguardless if you are under center or in the gun..... Just my opinion.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 17, 2007 14:08:53 GMT -6
As long as you don't get overly involved in either aspect, I think you could run both. I mean, you're probably not going to be able to install a full Air Raid package along with double back offense but you could be successful with the basics of each.I'd keep the blocking simple; zone, iso, G /GT/GF counter, trap and a double G sweep pull and just go from there.
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Post by dubber on Jan 18, 2007 22:08:11 GMT -6
Exactly, minimizing blocking schemes is the key
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 21, 2007 1:06:44 GMT -6
THIS IS GREAT FEEDBACK. Thanks for the input. We'll continue to move forward and I'll call out as we need some tweaks with our double system.
Thanks!
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Post by joetexas on Jan 21, 2007 7:55:45 GMT -6
What would you limit your blocking schemes to in two back gun...if you were just implementing it?
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