|
Post by coachbuck on Sept 22, 2011 13:16:27 GMT -6
One thing I always tell fellow coaches. As the season goes on I always hear x town is full of studs, they are always good. I always chime in, there is no substitute for hard work and there is no magic where they are at, its hard work.. Our baseball team has been bad. By "bad" I mean 1-19 consistently. Our baseball coach has often said that we just don't have baseball kids at our school. What the hell is a "baseball kid"? One of the best baseball programs in the league is in the same city, two miles away, on the same road. Are all the "baseball kids" zone to live there? fantom your dead on. I always am pessimistic about upcoming season. I dont know why, but I believe I prepare, study and work the kids harder or as hard as any coach. I give it 100%. No excuses, we play to win. Yes we play more talented teams and sometimes we lose. Still no excuses because we didnt and never will play a perfect game. So we go back to work at practice and get better. Basically we will be better fundementally than most every team, we will tackle better and the kids will know there job. We practice hard and expect to win and so do the kids. I know enough rah rah stuff. I just hate coaching excuses. Jv team this year is 1-2, last year we beat everyone ,averaged 40pts a game gave up maybe 6. Our closest game was 30-6. Yesterday at practice we are going over our gameplan walkthroughs. I look over and jv's are having a punting contest players and coaches.
|
|
|
Post by outlawjoseywales on Sept 22, 2011 17:56:31 GMT -6
KS, my point has nothing to do with "toughness." I didn't even mentioned the word in my little post. I was saying that kids are different when it comes to being "climatized" here in Florida. I don't mean beating them in the head with a ball bat, I'm talking about bringing them into 2-a-days slower now than we used to do. But, that has nothing to do with someone sticking their head into anything, not my point.
To others who may not be as old and crabby as me. Family structure is different than it was when I came up. That means alot when it comes to mainly discipline. Without a doubt family structure is different than it was 40 years ago. I know that many of you young guys would say that things haven't changed in your years. That is true, I think the last 20-25 years or so, things are pretty much the same.
Well, besides todays bad economy, yeah. But that isn't what the O.P was talking about. It was talking about us OLD guys and how things are different. They certainly are.
I think in many ways they are better than when I was a kid. You do realize that when I was a kid those terrible rediculous segregation laws were in place. That's a bad thing that changed for the better. About 15 years ago, when I was back coaching in my home town. One of my staff coaches was a terrific man that when he in school had to go to a different school than I did because of his race. I was a kid then, so was he. But we ended up at the same high school because the laws changed then. It made me so upset when I realized that "Marvin" had to go across town because of his race as a child. I didn't even remember that when I hired him on, it was such a long long ago. I told him I was so sorry when I realized what had happened to him. ] Guess what-He laughed. After I wiped the tears from my eyes, I laughed too. He grew a foot taller in my eyes at that point. No bitterness ever, just a good man. I don't know If I could ever be as big a man as "Marvin."
That is something that changed, thank God, for the better. But players sitting in the house all day playing video games? NO, that's not better.
OJW
|
|
|
Post by CoachCP on Sept 22, 2011 19:20:12 GMT -6
Did not mention race (demographics) at all.......you are making an assumption....................but I do know that here, in Texas....it doesn't matter if you are black, white or hispanic....your attitude....your perspective toward sports is different if you are raised in a rural setting......as compared to that of suburban or inner city.............................. What I have said is a rule of thumb.......there are exceptions to everything.....as you have mentioned.........................affluence....(money) gives you opportunity for a wider variety of influences that take away from sports in many cases.......where those oppotunities are not as available to many rural kids................ I never said that you said anything about race. My point was only to show that two very different schools have had great success. I've coached small town rural football. I've coached suburbia football. The suburbia kids were tougher without a doubt, and more dedicated. This isn't Texas, but still. Heck, I had a kid tell me he had to miss a whole week for FLIPPING HARVEST. It wasn't his call, but he was jacked up for it (don't know why, I'm from suburbia). So they'll find excuses to be distracted no matter what, be it suburban living, girls, getting a job so they can get a car to show off to the girls, ect. I am pretty confident the 2-3 most physical programs in my state, not counting size or number, just beat the crap out of you physical brand of football, reside in suburbs or urban areas, not the rural areas. Probably because these kids can't waste energy bailing hay or some silly thing like that so they have to take it out on the football field ;D
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Sept 23, 2011 7:22:54 GMT -6
I never said that you said anything about race. My point was only to show that two very different schools have had great success. I've coached small town rural football. I've coached suburbia football. The suburbia kids were tougher without a doubt, and more dedicated. This isn't Texas, but still. Heck, I had a kid tell me he had to miss a whole week for FLIPPING HARVEST. It wasn't his call, but he was jacked up for it (don't know why, I'm from suburbia). So they'll find excuses to be distracted no matter what, be it suburban living, girls, getting a job so they can get a car to show off to the girls, ect. I am pretty confident the 2-3 most physical programs in my state, not counting size or number, just beat the crap out of you physical brand of football, reside in suburbs or urban areas, not the rural areas. Probably because these kids can't waste energy bailing hay or some silly thing like that so they have to take it out on the football field ;D That's a pretty sweeping generalization, coach. I live in a very rural state and most folks around here would tell you the opposite. All perception.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Sept 23, 2011 9:32:34 GMT -6
I've coached small town rural football. I've coached suburbia football. The suburbia kids were tougher without a doubt, and more dedicated. This isn't Texas, but still. Heck, I had a kid tell me he had to miss a whole week for FLIPPING HARVEST. It wasn't his call, but he was jacked up for it (don't know why, I'm from suburbia). So they'll find excuses to be distracted no matter what, be it suburban living, girls, getting a job so they can get a car to show off to the girls, ect. I am pretty confident the 2-3 most physical programs in my state, not counting size or number, just beat the crap out of you physical brand of football, reside in suburbs or urban areas, not the rural areas. Probably because these kids can't waste energy bailing hay or some silly thing like that so they have to take it out on the football field ;D That's a pretty sweeping generalization, coach. I live in a very rural state and most folks around here would tell you the opposite. All perception. What difference does it make if the "average" kid at a school is pretty tough? Suppose it's true that the average rural kid is tougher than the average city kid (or vice versa). Who cares? We're not looking for "average". If a school has 1000 kids you don't need all 1000 to be tough guys. You only need about 50.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Sept 23, 2011 10:41:33 GMT -6
Man, coaches sure do get softer as they age... ;D Only from the neck down.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Sept 23, 2011 10:50:40 GMT -6
In order to keep some of the other threads from deteriorating into a "kids today are soft" I'll post this in a new thread. I'm one of the older coaches on this board. There are several of us. I'll be 58 soon and I've coached for 32 years. That means that I could have coached many of the coaches on this board. You know those things that we say about today's kids? Guess what? We probably said that about you. My coaches probably said them about me. Do you really think that as freshmen you came in totally focused and ready to go every day? Do you really think that on the first day in your first year of organized football you were ready and able to execute form tackles and drive blocks? There certainly are fewer kids today who are willing to pay the price to be a good football team. There are certainly more distractions and excuses. So what? You have the kids that you have and you can't change that. Think the kids in the schools that you compete with are different? They're not. Everybody's entitled to the right to gripe or vent to their peers. It's natural and normal. If you've really convinced yourself that the problem, year in and year out, is that your kids are intrinsically softer and lazier than others you're kidding yourself. Man, coaches sure do get softer as they age... ;D Especially around the waist.
|
|
hawke
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
|
Post by hawke on Sept 23, 2011 14:06:57 GMT -6
I haven't read all the posts but as someone who did coach the originator (fantom) I can hardly not agree with him. Kids have not changed, SOCIETY has and the kids have adapted to THEIR SOCIETY!! just as you adapted to yours. Now as someone who has coached for 48 years I have seen many changes - attitudes, importance, physical stature, etc. As a coach, you must adapt to the times. I'm still the sarcastic SOB between the lines,out but punishment doesn't work as well today. Dysfunctional families, drugs, 'roids, all these are common today. Mom and Dad screaming at you that you have no idea what talent is. Never heard of these things previously. Coaches were the "GODS" of high school. Today we are, in most cases, who are, according to many parents, guys who are trying to live their past or to make a name for ourselves. Don't blame the kids. Try to understand where they are coming from. I'm involved as a player or a coach, at every level from the little guys to pro ball as a player and 48 as a coach. That's 63 years Remember to teach them that the ride still continues if you lose but winning makes it more enjoyable and that this is a game of "PASSION" for which nothing in life worthwhile can be accomplished without it. And for you as a coach, the game must be a "Magnificent Obsession." If it is not, GET THE HELL OUT!!!
Hawke
|
|
|
Post by jrk5150 on Sept 23, 2011 14:26:05 GMT -6
Anyone ever see the movie Hoosiers?
The one where the community got together to remove a HS coach because they weren't happy about how the team played?
That was made in 1986 (25 years ago), depicting 1954.
Personal experience - 1984, father of the star basketball player in my school wanted to fight our HC because of the way he used his son, and that he disciplined him for something. Kid was a punk, it was valid.
1986 - kid kicked off the football team for using tobacco in school, which was a violation of the written contract we signed preseason that said you'd be kicked off. Father intervened, kid reinstated by administration.
What's different now?
The more things change...
|
|
|
Post by lcrusaders on Sept 24, 2011 22:11:35 GMT -6
2009 for me! ha! im tryin my best to let these kids know that with enough work, they can be the next breed
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Sept 25, 2011 19:39:55 GMT -6
here's what I have learned over the years...each kid ..in his own mind..has important problems...you and I know that mostly these problems are nothing like they will see as they get older..but these weigh heavily on them on a day to day basis.....even my 4 year old granddaughter commented on how "busy" she is because she has to make a birthday card and a present for her friend and how she didn't know how she could possibly do it
|
|
|
Post by robinhood on Sept 26, 2011 9:33:31 GMT -6
The players you have are the players you have. I learned a long time ago that I can't coach the kids I don't have on the team. It doesn't matter whether or not the kids are softer, slower, weaker, etc. You still have to coach the ones you have. Find an offense/defense they can play with their skill set and have at it.
BTW I started in 1977.
|
|
|
Post by ajreaper on Sept 26, 2011 11:32:16 GMT -6
What we ask of kids today has changed in a huge way vs. when many of us older coaches played. There was the season, when it ended few schools had weight and speed training programs year around. You had summers basically off- no lifting and spead work and 7 on 7 and full contact camps did not exsist or were very rare. The ability to ask or expect players to watch film in the evenings or weekends was not there- truth is we have added, in a huge way many expectations on our players that we never had ourselves as players. When you demand more you'll have a greater percent of students who are unwilling to do that so you'll see that reflected in a drop in numbers. Personally with all the additional expectations we place upon players I think those we have are in many ways better then ouselves and are peers- they dang sure have to give and sacrifice more, just my thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Sept 26, 2011 12:24:05 GMT -6
AJ, very true. I still would have rather done a 7 on 7 and lifted over my workout program. Bailing hay, mixing mortar, carrying blocks/bricks and busting firewood can make a hell of a football player out of a boy as well!
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Sept 27, 2011 10:01:47 GMT -6
OJW's comment on acclimating the athletes is dead on. We fought hard to get numbers out during two-a-days and had a lot of athletes not show up until school started. As such, about half of the team didn't get many reps in that hot, nasty August sun.
We played a 1pm game on Saturday in 93 degree heat. We were beaten as soon as we hopped off of the bus into the heat.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 11:11:24 GMT -6
It's amazing how fast the requirements ajreaper posted about changed. My high school playing days were 1996 and 97, so not that long ago in the grand scheme of things, and his post is very true to my situation even.
|
|
|
Post by 42falcon on Sept 27, 2011 11:13:10 GMT -6
Honestly the biggest difference I see from when I was in HS (graduated in 1998) and now the kids I coach is:
-distractions ie: social media, accessibility of everything, cell phones (keep in mind we had distractions then to that were similar: video games, music, skate boarding, snowboarding)
-pressure: the pressure now is huge, we have kids who train year round for football, who are taking extra tutorials in math, science, english
The expectation on kids time is much more than before. We used to get 45-50min for lunch kids now get 25min for lunch but the school day is not shorter it is longer because we tacked an extra 30min to the end of the day we end at 3:30 not 3:00.
Kids are not soft nowadays we are all far more over exposed to everything that our expectations get a little out of whack. For a quick example has anyone ever gone back in any of the threads tothe first page? Look at the sophistication of the posts over time. Our knowledge of the game is faqr greater than before our expectation is that those around us have the same knowledge and ability. The fact is they don't.
We can watch ESPN or NFL Network 24/7 365 it is like going to a football school. Yet when we try to run the latest fad complex thing a ma bob play and our kids look at us like we are on Mars and speaking japanese. What do we expect?
I keep telling myself this year especialy (brand new HS 1st G10 team we have 6 kids who have played the game before) when the kid looks at me with the googoley eyes after I explain something that I gave my coaches the same look and I should speak teenager to him and not coach....
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Sept 27, 2011 11:51:25 GMT -6
Honestly the biggest difference I see from when I was in HS (graduated in 1998) and now the kids I coach is: -distractions ie: social media, accessibility of everything, cell phones (keep in mind we had distractions then to that were similar: video games, music, skate boarding, snowboarding) -pressure: the pressure now is huge, we have kids who train year round for football, who are taking extra tutorials in math, science, english The expectation on kids time is much more than before. We used to get 45-50min for lunch kids now get 25min for lunch but the school day is not shorter it is longer because we tacked an extra 30min to the end of the day we end at 3:30 not 3:00. Kids are not soft nowadays we are all far more over exposed to everything that our expectations get a little out of whack. For a quick example has anyone ever gone back in any of the threads tothe first page? Look at the sophistication of the posts over time. Our knowledge of the game is faqr greater than before our expectation is that those around us have the same knowledge and ability. The fact is they don't. We can watch ESPN or NFL Network 24/7 365 it is like going to a football school. Yet when we try to run the latest fad complex thing a ma bob play and our kids look at us like we are on Mars and speaking japanese. What do we expect? I keep telling myself this year especialy (brand new HS 1st G10 team we have 6 kids who have played the game before) when the kid looks at me with the googoley eyes after I explain something that I gave my coaches the same look and I should speak teenager to him and not coach.... School administrators are scared to death to let kids be kids. A couple of years ago some of the kids started playing touch football at lunch time. I thought it was great. Admin stopped them.
|
|
GregH
Freshmen Member
Posts: 60
|
Post by GregH on Sept 28, 2011 0:55:24 GMT -6
I hear people say the kids today aren't willing to work as hard as we were. I'm 61. In high school we did no football related activities after the last game until August 15 the next year. We did far less than the kids today who lift year round, go to speed training and 7 on 7 games. I'll admit that in college I learned other high schools had weight programs at that time, but they were rare and did far less than is expected of the kids we coach today.
|
|
|
Post by 10forhim56 on Sept 28, 2011 10:41:25 GMT -6
Each generatation is as tough as they need to be. There is a lot of truth in the fact that we only remember what we want to from the past. My athletic ability from yester-year seems to get better every year and I am sure that other things work the same. Movies, music, books, etc were not better in the past, we just remember the good ones.
The one thing that I beleive is true about the culture of society today that is directly impacting sports is competition does not mean the same thing as it once did. Kids get sweet trophies for participating, their is a pizza party after the game regardless, and losing a game is "alright with me" as long as I do my part and get mine. It is not the kids fault that things are like this, it is everyone's. There are many factors contributing to this that we have to deal with, but that is what makes this calling to this profession so special.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Sept 29, 2011 7:01:21 GMT -6
Honestly the biggest difference I see from when I was in HS (graduated in 1998) and now the kids I coach is: -distractions ie: social media, accessibility of everything, cell phones (keep in mind we had distractions then to that were similar: video games, music, skate boarding, snowboarding) -pressure: the pressure now is huge, we have kids who train year round for football, who are taking extra tutorials in math, science, english The expectation on kids time is much more than before. We used to get 45-50min for lunch kids now get 25min for lunch but the school day is not shorter it is longer because we tacked an extra 30min to the end of the day we end at 3:30 not 3:00. Kids are not soft nowadays we are all far more over exposed to everything that our expectations get a little out of whack. For a quick example has anyone ever gone back in any of the threads tothe first page? Look at the sophistication of the posts over time. Our knowledge of the game is faqr greater than before our expectation is that those around us have the same knowledge and ability. The fact is they don't. We can watch ESPN or NFL Network 24/7 365 it is like going to a football school. Yet when we try to run the latest fad complex thing a ma bob play and our kids look at us like we are on Mars and speaking japanese. What do we expect? I keep telling myself this year especialy (brand new HS 1st G10 team we have 6 kids who have played the game before) when the kid looks at me with the googoley eyes after I explain something that I gave my coaches the same look and I should speak teenager to him and not coach.... School administrators are scared to death to let kids be kids. A couple of years ago some of the kids started playing touch football at lunch time. I thought it was great. Admin stopped them. This is the biggest change I have seen since I have been coaching. It seems as if the administrators lack the will to fight some of the issues they need to fight to keep the whole organization's integrity intact. For whatever reason (most, if not all I don't blame them due to lawyer pressure from our victim society) it seems this way. The kids themselves haven't changed much. How the kids respond to adversity does however.
|
|
|
Post by jrk5150 on Sept 29, 2011 7:28:19 GMT -6
The one thing that I beleive is true about the culture of society today that is directly impacting sports is competition does not mean the same thing as it once did. Kids get sweet trophies for participating, their is a pizza party after the game regardless, and losing a game is "alright with me" as long as I do my part and get mine. It is not the kids fault that things are like this, it is everyone's. There are many factors contributing to this that we have to deal with, but that is what makes this calling to this profession so special. See, I think this is something that is also based on selective memory. I graduated HS in 87. All those things - pizza parties win or lose, participation awards, etc. existed when I was growing up in the 70's and early 80's. There was no greater import on winning back then than there is now. You had the same split of people talking winning vs. just let them be kids and learn the game. No different. I refer back to movies because they're permanent snap shots of what society was like at a point in time. That horrible basketball movie One on One with Robbie Benson - was all about a coach bitching about the attitude of a player being me first, not team oriented, etc. 1977. Things were never "better". Kids are kids.
|
|
|
Post by JVD on Sept 30, 2011 6:58:29 GMT -6
Quote: I started coaching in 2011, and due to my completely thorough track record I can say that you're completely wrong... Kids today are just weak and soft and think that looking good translates to playing well.
SO TRUE!!! I love all the armbands, bicep bands, colored pre-wrap, eye black stickers, gloves, UA beanies, multi-colored mouth peices.... HA! We had blue jerseys with 3 yellow stripes on the sleeves and yellow jerseys with 3 blue stripes on the sleeves....that's it! We seemed to play okay. Just imagine if I would have had all that other crazy stuff!!! I WOULD HAVE BEEN UNSTOPPABLE!!!!!! HA HA HA!!
Back on topic: Football was important to me...and to a lot of my friends...but I know there were kids on my team that didn't play much...they didn't work at it either.
Great insight....teachers say the same about students.... ;D
|
|
|
Post by jrk5150 on Sept 30, 2011 7:23:13 GMT -6
LOL - let's see, over 25 years ago, I recall having bandanas and towels hanging from the belt - that was a cool look. Bandanas on the head under helmets before it became gang related and banned. Wrist bands or tape on the wrists. Very cool looking. Eye black existed then too.
This crap ain't new. There's just more of it and now with our Walmart/Sports Authority/Internet world, it's much easier to get.
Please note - my LOL isn't mocking the post prior to mine. I'm actually chuckling at the vanity of kids trying to be/look tough. That's never changed, and never lost the element of absurdity about it.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Sept 30, 2011 7:34:39 GMT -6
LOL - let's see, over 25 years ago, I recall having bandanas and towels hanging from the belt - that was a cool look. Bandanas on the head under helmets before it became gang related and banned. Wrist bands or tape on the wrists. Very cool looking. Eye black existed then too. This crap ain't new. There's just more of it and now with our Walmart/Sports Authority/Internet world, it's much easier to get. Please note - my LOL isn't mocking the post prior to mine. I'm actually chuckling at the vanity of kids trying to be/look tough. That's never changed, and never lost the element of absurdity about it. In the 60s and 70s it was forearm pads and neck rolls. Before every game I played the last thing I did before leaving the locker room was stopping in the bathroom to see how I looked. I was never alone in there either.
|
|
|
Post by tango on Sept 30, 2011 7:43:41 GMT -6
Parents are soft and the old football coach is not in administration now. If you can go to the ER for anything now and parents will take them. Heat illness, concussions, ACL, patella tendon, MCL, PCL, Librum, AC joint and more, all the parents are experts on this stuff now.
|
|
|
Post by casec11 on Sept 30, 2011 7:53:47 GMT -6
Jack Lambert: Neck roll = cool Adrian Peterson: Arm Band = cool
just like fashion kids wear whats in style no mater what era
|
|
|
Post by bucksweepdotcom on Sept 30, 2011 8:31:34 GMT -6
How about Brian Bosworth.... I had lightening bolts, my number, lines, W for my school shaved in my head at different times and I would color it in with food coloring.
I had a skull and cross bones towel with my number, eye black perfect, sweatband around my neck like some pros wore at the time, sleeves jacked up and knotted, bottom of jersey knotted up in the back, Neuman gloves , etc
Looking back I looked like an ass but it was fun at the time.
I don't think that it has changed that much with that stuff.
|
|
|
Post by bucksweepdotcom on Sept 30, 2011 8:36:34 GMT -6
How about Brian Bosworth.... I had lightening bolts, my number, lines, W for my school shaved in my head at different times and I would color it in with food coloring. I had a skull and cross bones towel with my number, eye black perfect, sweatband around my neck like some pros wore at the time, sleeves jacked up and knotted, bottom of jersey knotted up in the back, Neuman gloves , etc Looking back I looked like an {censored} but it was fun at the time. I don't think that it has changed that much with that stuff. In fact I think the kids even with wearing everything from the under armor look better and more uniform than we did when I played.
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Sept 30, 2011 12:01:43 GMT -6
[google][/google] LOL - let's see, over 25 years ago, I recall having bandanas and towels hanging from the belt - that was a cool look. Bandanas on the head under helmets before it became gang related and banned. Wrist bands or tape on the wrists. Very cool looking. Eye black existed then too. This crap ain't new. There's just more of it and now with our Walmart/Sports Authority/Internet world, it's much easier to get. Please note - my LOL isn't mocking the post prior to mine. I'm actually chuckling at the vanity of kids trying to be/look tough. That's never changed, and never lost the element of absurdity about it. In the 60s and 70s it was forearm pads and neck rolls. Before every game I played the last thing I did before leaving the locker room was stopping in the bathroom to see how I looked. I was never alone in there either. The neck roll was pretty cool
|
|