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Post by blb on Oct 7, 2011 12:05:30 GMT -6
cb, by examples you have posted, it's not a Football problem in your situation - it's the lack of priotrity on school-education in general.
Can't expect to have the discipline necessary to be competitive in Football if that's the only place it's demanded.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 13:18:06 GMT -6
We actually have pretty good kids, just terrible at football. We mixed up in the huddle last night with the opposing team at the end of a 48-0 beat down and we had 2 kids that could have played for our opponent, and one was out last night with the flu. 2 kids!!!! I do this everygame though, and our only win came against a team that maybe 1/2 our team could play for, everyone else is so much bigger and faster it's ridiculous. What's worse is our kids coming up, they are even smaller and less athletic than these guys. So basically our cupboard is bare...really bare. But like the title of the post says, am I a coward for leaving? Looking at it on my end I'd be an idiot to stay! Don't know what I'd rather be a coward or an idiot? :-\ Duece
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Post by coachcb on Oct 7, 2011 13:23:48 GMT -6
cb, by examples you have posted, it's not a Football problem in your situation - it's the lack of priotrity on school-education in general. Can't expect to have the discipline necessary to be competitive in Football if that's the only place it's demanded. It's a 'life-in-general' problem, coach. It's the same thing you see in any severely impoverished areas but with the added complications of being a Native reservation.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 7, 2011 18:50:05 GMT -6
The combined record of varsity, JV and JH is 1-14 and our youth programs are boasting a 5-25 record so far this season (that's all levls) and none of the 6 level teams has more than 1 win. I have a chance to leave, and I'm wondering if I should jump, but there's something I heard a good coach say once and it's not that you are there to win with kids, you are a MAKER of MEN. It stick with me to this day. I love our kids, they are great, just not good football players. Just curious as to why you think 6 levels of football are all not good football players?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 21:15:43 GMT -6
We actually have pretty good kids, just terrible at football. We mixed up in the huddle last night with the opposing team at the end of a 48-0 beat down and we had 2 kids that could have played for our opponent, and one was out last night with the flu. 2 kids!!!! I do this everygame though, and our only win came against a team that maybe 1/2 our team could play for, everyone else is so much bigger and faster it's ridiculous. What's worse is our kids coming up, they are even smaller and less athletic than these guys. So basically our cupboard is bare...really bare. But like the title of the post says, am I a coward for leaving? Looking at it on my end I'd be an idiot to stay! Don't know what I'd rather be a coward or an idiot? :-\ Duece Coward... I went the loyal Idiot route, reputation is everything. I learned the hard way. Never again!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 5:34:38 GMT -6
The combined record of varsity, JV and JH is 1-14 and our youth programs are boasting a 5-25 record so far this season (that's all levls) and none of the 6 level teams has more than 1 win. I have a chance to leave, and I'm wondering if I should jump, but there's something I heard a good coach say once and it's not that you are there to win with kids, you are a MAKER of MEN. It stick with me to this day. I love our kids, they are great, just not good football players. Just curious as to why you think 6 levels of football are all not good football players? Looking at the records and watching them play. There are no athletes from top to bottom in our lower levels. Usually we have at least 1 kid at each level that's a stud, not anymore. Our teams are also much smaller than our opponents. I talked to the Pop Warner AD, who is in charge of weigh-ins and for the past 5 seasons they haven't lost, OR had to move a kid up for weight issues. I usually go to these games and check out these kids to see what to expect of the future, and this is the worst I've seen it. Numbers are good though, all but 1 team has over 30 players, which is unheard of around here. Duece
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 8, 2011 5:49:40 GMT -6
Just curious as to why you think 6 levels of football are all not good football players? Looking at the records and watching them play. There are no athletes from top to bottom in our lower levels. Usually we have at least 1 kid at each level that's a stud, not anymore. Our teams are also much smaller than our opponents. I talked to the Pop Warner AD, who is in charge of weigh-ins and for the past 5 seasons they haven't lost, OR had to move a kid up for weight issues. I usually go to these games and check out these kids to see what to expect of the future, and this is the worst I've seen it. Numbers are good though, all but 1 team has over 30 players, which is unheard of around here. Duece But WHY are they not good football players? I guess my point was to try to guide the thinking along the realm of "what can be done to make them better football players". If the answer doesn't jump out at you, and you stated you are doing all you can ...then I would leave. You don't have the answer for what ails them, so staying around would just frustrate you. No shame or disloyalty in that.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 8, 2011 5:57:11 GMT -6
Our last game is Tuesday (junior high 7/8 grade). Kids are not responding to us anymore and are just playing out the string, parents are cutting us off at the knees behind our backs, we are terrible and completely noncompetitive.
I gave it my best shot...the program was horse$hit when I took it over 2 years ago and I obviously haven't made much of a dent. Time to move on. I didn't have what it takes to make chicken salad out of chicken $hit. I wasn't the right guy.
I guess that makes me a coward?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 8:34:51 GMT -6
Looking at the records and watching them play. There are no athletes from top to bottom in our lower levels. Usually we have at least 1 kid at each level that's a stud, not anymore. Our teams are also much smaller than our opponents. I talked to the Pop Warner AD, who is in charge of weigh-ins and for the past 5 seasons they haven't lost, OR had to move a kid up for weight issues. I usually go to these games and check out these kids to see what to expect of the future, and this is the worst I've seen it. Numbers are good though, all but 1 team has over 30 players, which is unheard of around here. Duece But WHY are they not good football players? I guess my point was to try to guide the thinking along the realm of "what can be done to make them better football players". If the answer doesn't jump out at you, and you stated you are doing all you can ...then I would leave. You don't have the answer for what ails them, so staying around would just frustrate you. No shame or disloyalty in that. Main reason they are not good football players is they are physically inferior. Duece
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 8, 2011 10:47:43 GMT -6
But WHY are they not good football players? I guess my point was to try to guide the thinking along the realm of "what can be done to make them better football players". If the answer doesn't jump out at you, and you stated you are doing all you can ...then I would leave. You don't have the answer for what ails them, so staying around would just frustrate you. No shame or disloyalty in that. Main reason they are not good football players is they are physically inferior. Duece Well there you go. If you don't think you can fix that, then why torture yourself. Go find a place you enjoy coaching if your job allows it.
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Post by airman on Oct 8, 2011 16:57:59 GMT -6
i disagree with the statement coached tell the cupboard is empty at the high school level. it is not like we get to recruit our players. we develop our players so teams with losing traditions have lack of player development not lack of athletes. just my 2 cents.
even at the college and pro level you have to develop players. look at all the 5 star recruits that fail. they have the talent but they have not been developed by the pros.
i know i am partial but look at the Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers. they do not sign flashy free agents at all. They look for players who they can coach up and develop. I would say the runner up Pittsburgh steelers are the same way. look at philly this year. they made all those FA signings and got people talking. they are what 1 and 3 with what was supposed to be the dream team. maybe they should have addressed the offensive line instead of DBs.
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Post by coachdawhip on Oct 8, 2011 20:23:19 GMT -6
duece, been in that same situation at the alma mater. Regret staying as long as I did 2. Enjoying life better now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2011 8:52:42 GMT -6
i disagree with the statement coached tell the cupboard is empty at the high school level. it is not like we get to recruit our players. we develop our players so teams with losing traditions have lack of player development not lack of athletes. just my 2 cents. even at the college and pro level you have to develop players. look at all the 5 star recruits that fail. they have the talent but they have not been developed by the pros. i know i am partial but look at the Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers. they do not sign flashy free agents at all. They look for players who they can coach up and develop. I would say the runner up Pittsburgh steelers are the same way. look at philly this year. they made all those FA signings and got people talking. they are what 1 and 3 with what was supposed to be the dream team. maybe they should have addressed the offensive line instead of DBs. Development will only take you so far. If player A is ranked at a 100, and player B is ranked at a 50, and both players have coaches developing them the same, player A wins. I know how to develop players, been doing this for a long time, our players would be ranked a 10. The nice thing is their character would be ranked a 100. That's what makes it so hard to leave... Duece
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2011 9:07:43 GMT -6
i disagree with the statement coached tell the cupboard is empty at the high school level. it is not like we get to recruit our players. we develop our players so teams with losing traditions have lack of player development not lack of athletes. just my 2 cents. even at the college and pro level you have to develop players. look at all the 5 star recruits that fail. they have the talent but they have not been developed by the pros. i know i am partial but look at the Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers. they do not sign flashy free agents at all. They look for players who they can coach up and develop. I would say the runner up Pittsburgh steelers are the same way. look at philly this year. they made all those FA signings and got people talking. they are what 1 and 3 with what was supposed to be the dream team. maybe they should have addressed the offensive line instead of DBs. Development will only take you so far. If player A is ranked at a 100, and player B is ranked at a 50, and both players have coaches developing them the same, player A wins. I know how to develop players, been doing this for a long time, our players would be ranked a 10. The nice thing is their character would be ranked a 100. That's what makes it so hard to leave... Duece Why do you think these players would be ranked a 10, and your opponents higher? Why are the kids who are attending your jr. high and high school so less physically developed than the kids you are playing against?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2011 9:34:53 GMT -6
Development will only take you so far. If player A is ranked at a 100, and player B is ranked at a 50, and both players have coaches developing them the same, player A wins. I know how to develop players, been doing this for a long time, our players would be ranked a 10. The nice thing is their character would be ranked a 100. That's what makes it so hard to leave... Duece Why do you think these players would be ranked a 10, and your opponents higher? Why are the kids who are attending your jr. high and high school so less physically developed than the kids you are playing against? Coach, if I could answer this, I'd be getting PRAYED to on Sundays. Why is the sky blue? I mean, how the he!! should I know, what I do know is that if our team stands in the other teams huddle, there is NO physical comparison. What part of that is so difficult to understand? Do I need to take a photo or what? Duece
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Post by blb on Oct 9, 2011 11:35:06 GMT -6
Kids are not all the same at every age in every locale.
They are not identical lumps of clay that can be molded to specification (in spite of what NCLB may proclaim).
Communities-schools have different youth programs, player development opportunities, traditions, priorities, and expectations.
And the fact is that as a coach some times you were out-procreated 16-17 years earlier.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2011 12:15:47 GMT -6
Kids are not all the same at every age in every locale. I agree. Maybe I am reading this wrong. What I am reading from Deuce is that all of his 6-8 year old kids are physically outclassed. All of their 9-11 kids are physically outclassed. All of their 12-14 kids are physically outclassed and All of his Frosh, JV, and Varsity level kids are physically outclassed. So in essence, all of the kids are relatively the same in this locale (all are physically outclassed). This is what I was alluding to as well. If deficiencies in those areas are the identified reasons for the lack of success, you can't do anything to improve on those areas, and the losing is going to wear you out, then yes considering leaving might be best. Deuce, I am not doubting you. I was trying to use the questions to help you feel better about YOUR thought process in this matter. In situations like this that I have seen (teams just seemingly always outclassed physically) the reasons are evident, and so far not fixable by coaches. Therefore, these schools have been perennial losers for the last two decades or so. Public Schools on the East Bank of Jefferson Parish (County) have not been very successful because any of the quality athletes with any type of means at all find a way to go to either John Curtis Christian or one of the numerous catholic boys schools, or one of the elite ($18,000 a year) private schools. Coaches can't really fight this and the jobs tend to be graveyards. Ben Franklin school is an Selective Admissions Magnet school in Orleans Parish. Highest rated "public" school in the state. Athletic boys who would academically qualify do not go there, they generally attend one of the above mentioned private schools. (Ironically, Ben Franklin is a VOLLEYBALL POWER-- which makes for a very interesting debate on the social/gender aspects of sports) Coach can't change the highly selective admission, nor can he eliminate the competition. Graveyard. Fontainbleau High School on the other hand started its program 0-18. Very affluent/spoiled population of students. New Coach came in, identified that the kids were physically outclassed due to lack of demanding expectations. Implemented said expectations. Team Mantra was they were "the hardest workers in the state" Then upped the ante becoming the first program in its area to train with a professional s&c coach. Program became one of the more solid programs in the state, making some deep runs into the playoffs. That coach leaves..new coach comes in, is less demanding. Kids revert back to their previous state of being outclassed. Deuce, Please note, I am not saying that this is case at your place. I was simply showing how in some cases it is out of the coach's hand, and in others the coach ID'd what he thought was the issue, put in a plan to fix that, and had success.
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Post by 44mag on Oct 9, 2011 13:08:50 GMT -6
i don't know how it is where most are, but most of the places i've been, you can leave on your own when the athletes are gone, or you can wait and get fired when you lose.
of the 2, leaving on your own is generally better. easier to get a job, easier on the family, the whole town's not on your back, etc.....
nothing cowardly about it. because you will leave, one way or the other.
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Post by 44mag on Oct 9, 2011 13:13:28 GMT -6
ps - the sky is blue because dust, etc.. scatters and reflects the blue wavelengths of uv light from the sun.
you learn things when you teach science.
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Post by 44mag on Oct 9, 2011 13:14:55 GMT -6
i don't know how it is where most are, but most of the places i've been, you can leave on your own when the athletes are gone, or you can wait and get fired when you lose.
of the 2, leaving on your own is generally better. easier to get a job, easier on the family, the whole town's not on your back, etc.....
nothing cowardly about it. because you will leave, one way or the other.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2011 15:17:33 GMT -6
Yeah, sorry I got miffed, I'm just tired of losing. Never lost this much anywhere I've been, whether it be in college, HS or youth leagues, and it HAS worn on me. Sorry about that...
Duece
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2011 15:27:27 GMT -6
Yeah, sorry I got miffed, I'm just tired of losing. Never lost this much anywhere I've been, whether it be in college, HS or youth leagues, and it HAS worn on me. Sorry about that... Duece Well, like I said, If it is grinding on you this much, and you can't put your finger on why the losses are mounting (and therefore change it), it might be best to move on if you can.
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Post by fantom on Oct 9, 2011 16:17:21 GMT -6
Over the years here I've probably read a hundred threads like this. Deuce, you've read them too. What I find interesting is that the question almost always answers itself but the coach who asks it doesn't always do what needs to be done. Those situations almost never end well.
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