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Post by tog on Sept 3, 2011 20:29:43 GMT -6
hmmm
just watching LSU and Oregon
it sure does seem like LSU is faking injuries to give their defense a rest at times?
viable strategy?
discuss
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Post by blb on Sept 3, 2011 20:33:36 GMT -6
That would be violating the rules.
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Post by tog on Sept 3, 2011 20:40:57 GMT -6
yes it would
also hard to prove
I am not saying it is something I agree with or not, or even if it is effective or not, but something that hard to enforce would surely be used by some out there if they can figure out how to do it.
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Post by tog on Sept 3, 2011 20:43:17 GMT -6
and yes
I've thought about ways to do it. Never done it though.
LOL
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Post by mariner42 on Sept 3, 2011 20:46:58 GMT -6
Came up with Cal vs Oregon last year when Cal's defensive players would flop literally onto the ball to slow down Oregon's tempo. Cal managed to hold Oregon to 14 points, but I don't think it was because of the messing with the tempo, I think they just executed a better gameplan than most folks had put out at that point in the year.
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Post by coachbdud on Sept 3, 2011 21:44:45 GMT -6
ive done it
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Post by fantom on Sept 4, 2011 8:56:00 GMT -6
I didn't see the game but I think it's kind of a grey area. Against a no-huddle offense you don't have time to evaluate whether a ding of any kind is serious or not so I think you tell the players if you're not sure go down.
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Post by jrk5150 on Sept 4, 2011 9:01:58 GMT -6
It's gray if the kids are dinged.
It's cheating if they aren't.
You really think the coaches don't know which it is?
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Post by fantom on Sept 4, 2011 9:14:51 GMT -6
I was at two games this weekend: one on a cool Friday evening; the other on Sat. afternoon when it was 90 degrees on artificial turf. Guess which game had more "injuries".
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Post by veerman on Sept 4, 2011 11:45:33 GMT -6
Don't know if they were faking injuries last night, I agree with the idea that players were told if ya don't know then go down. Think its a fairly good strategy. Oregon players were going down just as much but im sure they tell there players unless both your legs are broke you better be getting your butt to the sideline ASAP. Don't think the LSU guys going down effected the game. LSU physically dominated the game, if you dont count the give me TD at the end of the game, and the short TD after the botched snap play which give them the ball on like the 10 or something Oregon really did not do that much offensively. Thomas and James are both really good players, and the fr wr is going to be real good, but I would not take James over Lattimore (SC) or Richardson (AL). Thomas I would compare to QB at Miss St. Thomas and James will have far better numbers cause of the weaker competition they play. But as far as faking injuries don't think they did, but then again if your not doing EVERYTHING you can to try and win the game you ain't trying hard enough someone once told me.
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Post by John Knight on Sept 4, 2011 12:20:09 GMT -6
I think someone in this thread called someone else a cheater. I also think people that believe the old saw that you ain't trying if you ain't cheating is very immoral.
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Post by tog on Sept 4, 2011 13:46:22 GMT -6
I think someone in this thread called someone else a cheater. I also think people that believe the old saw that you ain't trying if you ain't cheating is very immoral. Wow, maybe we can get into the whole "if you use your hands in blocking in any way you are holding and therefore a cheater immoral person going to hell" topic again too?
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Post by John Knight on Sept 4, 2011 14:41:04 GMT -6
big difference in teaching a blocking technique and pure circumvention of the rules to obtain an unfair advantage. But I am all for a little banter on the limits of what is Ok and what is not!
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jlt
Junior Member
Posts: 313
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Post by jlt on Sept 5, 2011 1:58:40 GMT -6
We run a high tempo Offence from the Wing. We get fake injuries a fair bit. the refs never penalise because you cant prove it. But for me a player who is down acting like he has a broken leg one play and is then bouncing round the field 2 plays later is faking it. Especially when that same player goes down multiple times.
We tend to get it as we enter the redzone after a drive.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Sept 5, 2011 10:51:11 GMT -6
...for me a player who is down acting like he has a broken leg one play and is then bouncing round the field 2 plays later is faking it. Especially when that same player goes down multiple times. I may get attacked for referencing soccer, but here goes... In soccer, when this happens, they get a yellow card. I would think that officials could give a 15 yard penaly for the same actions in football.
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Post by coachbdud on Sept 5, 2011 11:00:20 GMT -6
...for me a player who is down acting like he has a broken leg one play and is then bouncing round the field 2 plays later is faking it. Especially when that same player goes down multiple times. I may get attacked for referencing soccer, but here goes... In soccer, when this happens, they get a yellow card. I would think that officials could give a 15 yard penaly for the same actions in football. but with injuries happening so frequently in football, how can you really tell between a legitmate injury and a fake one
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 5, 2011 11:01:21 GMT -6
...for me a player who is down acting like he has a broken leg one play and is then bouncing round the field 2 plays later is faking it. Especially when that same player goes down multiple times. I may get attacked for referencing soccer, but here goes... In soccer, when this happens, they get a yellow card. I would think that officials could give a 15 yard penaly for the same actions in football. My soph year we dressed out 16 on Varsity for 11 man football in Louisiana. I (and several others) started both ways, and played on every special team. Basically after the coin toss, we left the field for halftime... Lots of cramps..lots of rolling around in agony, only to return a play or two later...
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Post by pmeisel on Sept 5, 2011 17:23:31 GMT -6
I watched and I didn't think they were faking. Looked like a lot of guys with cramps to me.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Sept 5, 2011 17:55:21 GMT -6
I may get attacked for referencing soccer, but here goes... In soccer, when this happens, they get a yellow card. I would think that officials could give a 15 yard penaly for the same actions in football. but with injuries happening so frequently in football, how can you really tell between a legitmate injury and a fake one You can't, not always anyway. But sometimes it's obvious...
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Post by Coach Huey on Sept 5, 2011 19:51:09 GMT -6
falls under the category "focus on what you can control"... which means, no need to get all worked up over stuff you can't
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Post by jrk5150 on Sept 6, 2011 6:52:38 GMT -6
Just a thought -
If you're a bit dinged up, the fast paced no huddle teams don't really give you time to get right or get off the field. The time that a defender has while the O is huddling to walk something off, or to get off the field, is gone. How many times do you see someone get up and be limping a bit, but are able to walk it off. Or guys limping off the field if they can't. Those guys have no choice but to stay down, really. Otherwise, they get a penalty for trying to hobble off the field and not getting off in time.
So yeah, there is probably a lot of slack that should be cut. And no way to tell if it's real or not. So no point in really arguing the application of it. The merits of doing it if NOT hurt, well, that's another story.
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Post by wingt74 on Sept 6, 2011 10:39:22 GMT -6
Any different than a punter faking being hit and laying on the ground in pain? It's legit in my book.
We have had lots of problems with "sucking chest wounds" so I'd hope nobody would accuse my boys of faking when a team is going no huddle and one of our DLinemen is just laying on the ground.
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Post by gdoggwr on Sept 14, 2011 9:30:23 GMT -6
...for me a player who is down acting like he has a broken leg one play and is then bouncing round the field 2 plays later is faking it. Especially when that same player goes down multiple times. I may get attacked for referencing soccer, but here goes... In soccer, when this happens, they get a yellow card. I would think that officials could give a 15 yard penaly for the same actions in football. lets be fair, if this happens in soccer they're SUPPOSED to get a card. The actually get one about as often as they throw a flag for it in football. I agree with Huey, worry about what you can control, p!ss on everything else.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2011 18:53:45 GMT -6
As an upstanding member of the Football Ethics Committee, I am appalled by the lack of respect for the sanctity of the rules of this fine game. The hell with it; it's gamesmanship. Faking an injury is no worse than teaching the OL how to get away with holding. In fact, it has far less impact; slow down an offense's pace versus holding the crap out of the defense.
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Sept 15, 2011 12:18:46 GMT -6
This may not be right, but if I have a kid get hurt during a play I want him to lay there rather than limp over to the sideline, or if he gets up, to get to the sideline slowly so we can have time to replace him on the field. Its tough when a kid comes out and you didn't see him come off with others going on and off the field every play.
However the original topic, our Jr. High coach when I was in school would call out "your dog died" at which point whomever he called out would flop and grab a calf. We never used it in a game, but was to be for if someone was running the clock out at the end and we needed it stopped between plays to get the playclock moving again.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2011 9:30:47 GMT -6
For the whole cheating issue, I remember back in high school we had a defensive call "MIKE DOWN", which told me to line up at nose. I didn't realize until watching film that we would also run in a guy off the sideline and play with 12.
It didn't work though. We were terrible.
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Post by brophy on Sept 30, 2011 10:43:36 GMT -6
as a "strategy" its hard to argue against this as a tactic (complete lack of accountability to enforce it)
Not to pick on LSU (but to use them as an example as the OP)....the two times guys went down during the Oregon game were the only times in the 1st half that Oregon converted successive downs.
Against WVU, the same thing happened.
Guys weren't going down during regular series or just because they went no-huddle. It only occurred when they went no-huddle and converted successive downs.
Now, one could likely argue that if you run that kind of pace, guys get tired, and when guys get tired they get injured.....
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