|
|
Post by fballcoachg on Aug 23, 2011 7:35:50 GMT -6
For several reasons we have made the decision to 2 platoon this year. While we are young we have seen improvements in players both in knowing what to do and making less mental mistakes however there is also starting to be somewhat of a division on the team. There is an "offense" and a "defense" and while we like the competitiveness between the two we don't like the, "Well the offense did this" or "We're the defense, we're different." I realize that myself and some of the other coaches have definetly gassed up the competition during team (best on best) and maybe that's something we need to tone back on, which I am starting to do. How do you/would you combat this concept of O/D instead of 1 team or stop it dead in its tracks?
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Aug 23, 2011 8:00:06 GMT -6
Does your OL say "The WRs did this.." or do the DBs say "The DL did that..."?
Why would it be any different for the O and the D? The O and D compete with each other, not against each other. Each goes off to do their thing, but at the end of day you're still one team. If the D forces a turnover at midfield, the O gets a short field to work with. If the O goes up by a couple of scores, it puts the D in a position to pin back their ears.
Might need to give the "You need to worry about the things you can control" speech.
|
|
|
|
Post by mattharris75 on Aug 23, 2011 9:02:30 GMT -6
Do you guys have any 'crossover' time, or are you strictly two platoon?
We are sort of pseudo-two platoon in that, now that our basic scheme install is done we've split into separate offensive and defensive practices. Some kids are offensive specialists and some are defensive specialists. But for the last 20 minutes of practice we have a 'crossover' period. So O specialists go with a D position and D specialists with an O position. So the kids are learning both, and some of them will play on both sides of the ball.
Seems that kind of crossover could be something that could minimize the 'us vs them' mentality.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Aug 23, 2011 9:26:50 GMT -6
Being cempetitive in practice is fine but everybody, players and coaches, need to understand and buy into the concept that there's is one TEAM. Under no circumstances should players ever get the idea that coaches of one unit feel that their unit is superior to the other and blame the other when things go bad. The defenseive coaches attitude has to be that if the offense only scores 7 points it's up to them to hold the opponent to 6. Their job is to win, not get stats for their unit.
|
|
|
|
Post by fballcoachg on Aug 23, 2011 9:33:52 GMT -6
coachwoodall,
We had that speech yesterday and it hopefully sunk in. Definitely stressed the team.
fantom,
I agree, I believe that the coaches being more verbally supportive of the other groups could help, I don't think any of us are bad mouthing the others. Thats something Ill bring up today, to show more support and not be so locked in on just our position or side of the ball.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachks on Aug 23, 2011 10:55:55 GMT -6
That's pretty natural, and good (IMO), before games get going. Once there is a common opponent (and scout teams ect...) everyone should get pulling in the same direction.
However, it's important that the header work with both sides (no favoritism) and emphasis the "one team" concept during camp.
|
|
|
|
Post by wingt74 on Aug 23, 2011 12:29:56 GMT -6
I just don't understand two platoon. I know a team who's best tackler is also a QB...and he only plays QB while their defense is getting torched.
Put your best 11 on the field. A better football player practicing part time on a position is going to outperform a lesser athlete/player practicing full time.
To me, it's coaches going against the theory that Jimmy and Joe's win football games, not X's and O's.
|
|
|
|
Post by mattharris75 on Aug 23, 2011 12:54:41 GMT -6
I just don't understand two platoon. I know a team who's best tackler is also a QB...and he only plays QB while their defense is getting torched. Put your best 11 on the field. A better football player practicing part time on a position is going to outperform a lesser athlete/player practicing full time. To me, it's coaches going against the theory that Jimmy and Joe's win football games, not X's and O's. That's why we are a 'pseudo' two platoon team. Our Starting Weak Safety is also our starting QB. Our starting sam backer and weak D end are our starting running backs. But the theory is that practicing this way helps bring up the level of the average players, turning them into contributors and building depth. It's similar to the idea that the off season work in the S&C program turns the average players into good players and the good players into great. |
|
|
|
Post by TMGPG on Aug 23, 2011 13:49:35 GMT -6
I have seen this before and when the games get going all the attentions goes to the next weeks opponent and the two sides are more supportive. I am sure that the speech went well about team and I am sure that the guys want to support each other but it sounds like you have a competitive bunch (which is a good thing) that would like to have some bragging rights. It does help get the practice temp going better though.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachks on Aug 23, 2011 16:22:39 GMT -6
I just don't understand two platoon. I know a team who's best tackler is also a QB...and he only plays QB while their defense is getting torched. Put your best 11 on the field. A better football player practicing part time on a position is going to outperform a lesser athlete/player practicing full time. To me, it's coaches going against the theory that Jimmy and Joe's win football games, not X's and O's. Is your 9th player that much better than 13? Is your 11th that much better than your 12th? What about 17, 18, 19, 20? Major seperation? I think most "platoon" teams have the best 4...5...6, whatever the number of true "studs" is play both ways. It's those players a step below the studs that get the extra practice at just one position . |
|
|
|
Post by fballcoachg on Aug 23, 2011 18:38:13 GMT -6
I appreciate the help gentleman, it seemed to be a different attitude today, still getting after it but more supportive of each other.
Not to get too off topic but the main reasons we decided to platoon
1) We are replacing 19 starters with some very young kids who haven't played much football so the more time they have the more we feel they learn and retain
2) There isn't much difference between the majority of our players (some who are "studs" have the ability to play both ways if they have to, right now we only have one two way player, our Center and Nose because of an injury)
3) We want as many kids to play that we can have as we have never had great numbers. We are not as tradition rich as some other programs and have a very transient student body, we are thinking that if we have more kids playing we have a better shot at retaining kids and attracting kids than we would if we had 13, 14 starters. Not only do we have 22 starters but we have the possibility of another 22 buying in as primary backups.
4) In theory we can play anyone on special teams without having to worry about them being tired as they are only playing 1 way.
5) Since we are doing it program wide our JVs have 22 starters in theory as well and are able to get more reps since we aren't working in older kids that are more talented but will probably never play that position anyways.
These are just some of the reasons we went to it, we went through all the positives and negatives and decided to make the leap. I realize it isnt for everyone but for us it was something we thought the pros outweighed the cons in.
|
|
|
|
Post by JVD on Aug 23, 2011 20:06:00 GMT -6
Scrimmage..... Sure...when offense is on offense, they will be good.....but so will the defense.
When defense is on offense, the will probably be laughable....but so with the other side of the ball.
Might be a "fun" way to show EVERYONE that all the jobs on the team are important.
Probably don't have to go long...2 or 3 series both ways.
My 2 cents.
JVD
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Aug 24, 2011 5:52:10 GMT -6
why we 2 platoon:
-115 jv/varsity players
-we can 8 quarter kids
-we try to have a high tempo practice
-more kids involved
-get the best players on special teams
-there is a lot to learn on both offense and defense, lots of checks/adjustment both presnap and post snap
-have enough coaches to do it
-most of practice is the Wooden concept of 'working on us'. we game plan for opponents, but have plenty of periods were we go good on good
|
|
|
|
Post by goldenbear76 on Aug 24, 2011 21:04:03 GMT -6
Team building stuff before the season, curtails these kinds of things. We took em on camping trips in the summer, or to the beach (staying inside a HS Gym made this cheap). We developed team leaders on these trips and made them responsible for the teams behavior. Let the kids have fun as a team..not as an offense...or as a defense. Those kinds of things really seemed to bring the team together before we started 2-a-days.
|
|
|
|
Post by wingt74 on Aug 25, 2011 7:08:46 GMT -6
I just don't understand two platoon. I know a team who's best tackler is also a QB...and he only plays QB while their defense is getting torched. Put your best 11 on the field. A better football player practicing part time on a position is going to outperform a lesser athlete/player practicing full time. To me, it's coaches going against the theory that Jimmy and Joe's win football games, not X's and O's. That's great in theory until you have to compete with schools who play 11 and 11 and have depth both ways. My 265 lb 3 tech might be a stud, he may be a beast, he may be a BCS kid, but handling a 260 lb DT while he's playing OT, then turning around and handling a 265 lb guard while he's playing defense...if their kids are only 1 way players and my kid is a 2 way player, my kid just gets tired faster and if you do it at 8-9 different spots... The previous HC where I am now did exactly that, played like 8 guys both ways. And they were fairly good until mid 3rd quarter...and then...they just lost. Per the question - just have to talk to them. They can get on each other like brothers do, but at the end of the day we are each other's biggest fans. Right, but if option 2 is a 200lb kid to play DLine, who is just going to get mauled by the guard, than I don't get it. Platoon is ideal, just don't force it just for the sake of forcing it. |
|
|
|
Post by airman on Aug 27, 2011 14:39:12 GMT -6
I understand when people say is your 22nd player better then their 11th player. what people do not factor in is fatigue. my 22nd player is resting half the game your 11th player is resting most likely not at all. my 22nd player is fresh in the 4th quarter yours is tired especially since we crank it up on offense and never let you rest.
the late Jim Valvano had a philosophy that the best 5 play with 2 subs. he divided his teams into the 7 white(starters) and 7 red(bench players) the 7 white played all the time and the resentment by the 7 red became so great they were having fist fights at practice.
my high school coach had the same philosophy best 11 play all the time offense and defense. I know this is why we had only 13 seniors my senior year because kids knew they had no chance to play. this is why I am a two platoon coach.
|
|
