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Post by Defcord on Aug 15, 2011 18:08:59 GMT -6
I have an assistant that I like. His son is a decent player but he can be a turd. He slacks in drills and is always last or next to last in conditioning drills. I have talked to both him and his dad about my expecations. I expect him to set an example...Today during our film session I look up and he is sleeping. Dad tries not to say much when I get on the kid but the other day his dad said that he isn't the only one who isn't giving it all.
My immediate response to him was either 1. He made that statement as a dad and I wasn't going to acknowledge it or 2. He made it as a coach and he is letting other players not hustle. I wasn't happy with either one. Then I told him if his kid were in the front of the pack all of the time and I were yelling at him he could be upset.
Every assistant on my staff feels a little awkward because of the kid's lack of effort. I assure you he isn't the only one, who I am pushing but I definitely will not allow him to become a distraction and a centerpiece for the discussion that "the coach's kid gets away with everything..."
ADVISE Please!
Thanks
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Post by insidethestripes on Aug 15, 2011 18:56:40 GMT -6
Treat the player like any other and dump the AC if he doesn't like it.
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Post by pmeisel on Aug 15, 2011 20:28:52 GMT -6
A little different situation, but maybe it will give you an idea:
I once managed a very large operation. One of my section supervisors (direct report) had a son who was a foreman in another part of my operation (a level was between me and him). The kid was kind of immature and often getting into trouble for something foolish.
One week when his dad was on vacation, not long before the holidays, I took him aside. I told him: Look, I really like your dad, but I don't owe you crap. You keep doing dumb things to get yourself in trouble, and embarass your dad. Why? Maybe you don't care, or maybe you just don't belong here.
The kid went looking for a new job over Christmas and quit in January. He got a better job, away from his foolishness, immaturity, and bad reputation.
May not be a parallel but your player needs a wakeup call.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Aug 15, 2011 21:02:48 GMT -6
If he normally doesn't say anything, but has just recently told you to back off, then you may want to take a serious look at how you are interacting with this kid. I'm not assuming you're wrong, but when there's smoke there's fire...
Whether it is his opinion as a coach OR as a parent, you should defintiely consider it. We all have kids that we expect more out of and they inevitably fail us. When I think back to these kids I can honestly say that our relationship failure was equally my fault as it was the athlete.
Maybe he IS just a turd and will always be a turd when it comes to football. I can't see doing anymore than letting the kid know your expectations. If he thinks they are unacceptable then consider adjusting.
All else fails, the kid never sees the field until he straightens the F*ck up
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Post by Defcord on Aug 15, 2011 21:11:55 GMT -6
If he normally doesn't say anything, but has just recently told you to back off, then you may want to take a serious look at how you are interacting with this kid. I'm not assuming you're wrong, but when there's smoke there's fire... Whether it is his opinion as a coach OR as a parent, you should defintiely consider it. We all have kids that we expect more out of and they inevitably fail us. When I think back to these kids I can honestly say that our relationship failure was equally my fault as it was the athlete. Maybe he IS just a turd and will always be a turd when it comes to football. I can't see doing anymore than letting the kid know your expectations. If he thinks they are unacceptable then consider adjusting. All else fails, the kid never sees the field until he straightens the F*ck up I think you are right in that I need to be aware of the situation and try to look at all sides. This one is complicated for me because all of my other assistants are bugged by the kids lack of effort. We push hard all the time for intensity and effort and also we preach never being last...obviously someone has to be last but we feel it should never be the same kid consistently (this kid is a middle linebacker). The sleeping was what worried me to the point of posting on here. It's one thing to be a sluggish/slow player but sleeping in a meeting shows that it is more to me. I think you give good advice. This is bothering me a lot because of so many factors. |
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Post by joshnorton on Aug 15, 2011 23:45:14 GMT -6
I totally agree with the above. Set the expectation and then let the kid make it or break it. If you ride him too hard you will become the excuse for the kid. Treat him like any other and if your not seeing effort then find a new kid. When the dad asks you just be honest and tell him he isnt cutting it with his effort. Then the dad can deal with the issue if he so chooses. Just my two cents, I have been in the same spot and its difficult.
Sincerely,
Joshua Norton
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Post by wingt74 on Aug 16, 2011 14:17:55 GMT -6
Tough spot...there will be no easy answer.
Option 1: Lay off the kid, let him slack. But his teammates will see the favortism.
Option 2: Keep on the kid as, like others have said, he doesn't get preferential treatment. But expect Dad to keep sticking up for his boy.
Option 3: REmove Dad from the equation. You just burnt a bridge, and all kind of problems come with that.
And, I think those are your only options.
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Post by coachbdud on Aug 16, 2011 14:46:59 GMT -6
I absolutely hate coaches who coach their own kid... I have never seen it work out well... the best coaches I have seen will step down to JV or freshman for a year or two to avoid coaching their own kid... thats the best way to handle it
I have coached with a number of father/coaches and I have never seen it work out well...
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Post by fantom on Aug 16, 2011 14:53:43 GMT -6
I absolutely hate coaches who coach their own kid... I have never seen it work out well... the best coaches I have seen will step down to JV or freshman for a year or two to avoid coaching their own kid... thats the best way to handle it I have coached with a number of father/coaches and I have never seen it work out well... I have. |
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Post by Defcord on Aug 16, 2011 17:44:01 GMT -6
I absolutely hate coaches who coach their own kid... I have never seen it work out well... the best coaches I have seen will step down to JV or freshman for a year or two to avoid coaching their own kid... thats the best way to handle it I have coached with a number of father/coaches and I have never seen it work out well... I hope we get it worked out...the kid is only a sophomore! |
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MaineManiac
Junior Member
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
Posts: 311
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Post by MaineManiac on Aug 16, 2011 18:38:26 GMT -6
I applaud you for thinking through critical issues to the level you are. I think it is a best practice of great football programs.
Here are my two cents: It seems from your first post your starting to lean towards taking it out on the the Coach once he pushed back. I actually really appreciated that example from business. I think it effectively showed how to separate the person who isn't exhibiting negative behaviors from the individual who is. Fix the problem - don't create more. I think by working with the kid you can fix the problem. You start to tackle the issue through the dad you end up creating more.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Aug 16, 2011 18:52:03 GMT -6
Maine-
Great point...don't double your trouble.
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Post by gdoggwr on Aug 16, 2011 19:31:12 GMT -6
I absolutely hate coaches who coach their own kid... I have never seen it work out well... the best coaches I have seen will step down to JV or freshman for a year or two to avoid coaching their own kid... thats the best way to handle it I have coached with a number of father/coaches and I have never seen it work out well... I've seen it work. I've seen it fail too, but I'd say that 90% of time its worked just fine (at least around here). |
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Post by Defcord on Aug 16, 2011 21:00:10 GMT -6
I applaud you for thinking through critical issues to the level you are. I think it is a best practice of great football programs. Here are my two cents: It seems from your first post your starting to lean towards taking it out on the the Coach once he pushed back. I actually really appreciated that example from business. I think it effectively showed how to separate the person who isn't exhibiting negative behaviors from the individual who is. Fix the problem - don't create more. I think by working with the kid you can fix the problem. You start to tackle the issue through the dad you end up creating more. I think this is good advice! I appreciate all the help you guys have given me. |
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Post by ajreaper on Aug 17, 2011 13:13:28 GMT -6
How do you hold players accountable to the standards you set? What happens if a kid is a sleep during film? If you preach not being last what is the cost for being last? How are they held accountable to the standard? If you have the accountability in place then he's just another player being held accountable like everyone else. Its all fine and well to have your expectations but you have to have a system in place that's holds players accountable if they fall short.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Aug 17, 2011 14:57:54 GMT -6
I've the good, bad and ugly with "dad" coaches over the years.
One problem I had with one of the guys was that he was TOO hard on his son. But, he wasn't his position coach either so that made a difference. Great coach personality and son too.
Always made him be 1st in sprints and drills, but the kid accepted it and was a great leader. The kid played awesome and there was no favoritism at all, the coach never bucked me.
That was the best.
The worst was the HC whose son was the QB.
I can't tell you how bad this one was, with the "dad" calling the plays. This was one of the times I was on the defensive side of the ball. Lots of heated conversations, fussing, tantrums, staff fighting, you name it. The guy ended up getting fired, not because of his son, but because he was an idiot.
But, it doesn't get much worse than a "dad" HC calling plays for his son-QB. I tried to get the HC to step aside and let someone else be the OC.
On this this case.
Coach, DO NOT let this become your focus.
You've got a team of kids that need your energy and focus. This kid probably was a t*rd before you showed up and will be one when you or him is gone.
Don't let this distract you from your goal, and don't let it eat on you and ruin your relationship with the rest of your staff.
You sound like you've tried, treat the kid like everybody else.
He's not a leader, you can't make him one.
An old saying, "you'll kill 99 good sheep trying to hit 1 old goat."
OJW
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Post by Defcord on Aug 17, 2011 18:49:21 GMT -6
How do you hold players accountable to the standards you set? What happens if a kid is a sleep during film? If you preach not being last what is the cost for being last? How are they held accountable to the standard? If you have the accountability in place then he's just another player being held accountable like everyone else. Its all fine and well to have your expectations but you have to have a system in place that's holds players accountable if they fall short. We have this and have followed the plan when he has messed up. That is why I was bothered when dad said something. |
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Post by ajreaper on Aug 19, 2011 12:03:17 GMT -6
How do you hold players accountable to the standards you set? What happens if a kid is a sleep during film? If you preach not being last what is the cost for being last? How are they held accountable to the standard? If you have the accountability in place then he's just another player being held accountable like everyone else. Its all fine and well to have your expectations but you have to have a system in place that's holds players accountable if they fall short. We have this and have followed the plan when he has messed up. That is why I was bothered when dad said something. Then he is being treated like every other player would be treated and Dad needs to zip it and direct any talking toward Jr. |
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Post by brian94 on Aug 19, 2011 19:30:08 GMT -6
Sounds a little like the baby Adam James and the loud mouth loser Craig James....remember how that turned out...
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