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Post by Coach Geordie on Jul 12, 2011 11:00:52 GMT -6
Does it ever have positives?
What does it say about your team and your program?
Does the lack of any fights mean you are missing something or gaining something?
Would love to hear some thoughts and experiences.
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Post by TMGPG on Jul 12, 2011 11:06:30 GMT -6
Good topic. I have always felt that it is ok to have some scuffles. I am not in one way condoning fighting but I am saying that it does have its positives. I think that a fight will occur when players are competing hard and I also feel that when a fight happens that players start to forget about how hot or tired they are and play with more energy. There are some negatives in that team unity is also lost if it is something that happens every day.
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knash
Sophomore Member
Posts: 109
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Post by knash on Jul 12, 2011 11:18:19 GMT -6
As long as they understand that the fighting is over when practice is over then I am fine with it. We two-platooned last year for the first time and we had a ton of fights. The best team I have ever coached fought everday in practice.
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Post by shamespiral on Jul 12, 2011 11:31:58 GMT -6
Honestly...
It's a violent game. People get whipped. They get mad. You get banged up in one on one. Especially with the OL/DL if they never fought I would think something is wrong.
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Post by windigo on Jul 12, 2011 11:40:22 GMT -6
Its never bothered me. It is more why the fight occurs. I expect OL/DL to come to blows from time to time as they establish their boundaries. If there are no fights on the line something is wrong.
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Post by TMGPG on Jul 12, 2011 12:12:04 GMT -6
As long as they understand that the fighting is over when practice is over then I am fine with it. We two-platooned last year for the first time and we had a ton of fights. The best team I have ever coached fought everday in practice. Well put. As long as they know when it is over it is over. Most kids seem to understand that pretty well though I think. |
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 12, 2011 12:12:25 GMT -6
I do not encourage it but I think it can be beneficial for the team as long as the players are able to squash it and move on after
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Post by mitch on Jul 12, 2011 17:38:53 GMT -6
The best teams I've coached fought, the crappy teams didn't.
"Football, in its essence, is a physical fight, and if you're not willing to fight, you aren't willing to win."
Bud Wilkinson (pretty close)
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Post by temposquad on Jul 12, 2011 18:30:08 GMT -6
I too think that fighting is ok provided at the end of practice the disagreement is over. When I played I lived with a DT and I was a guard. Every time we went against each other there was a scuffle of some sort then that night we would go eat at the caf together and never talk about what happened. Without a doubt it gets players fired up and going hard in practice as long as they can be men about it I see no problem with it. The problem is that they are in high school so we must monitor the kids after the altercation.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 12, 2011 18:40:44 GMT -6
Hell I have told kids on scout team to try and start a fight if I think the OL is playing like a bunch of vages just to spice things up. Of course it is a very broad question to ask and answer since everyone's situation is different, I know guys who have coached in the inner city and when there was a fight at their practice it was a bit different than two farm boys pushing and shoving on the line.
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Post by coachguy83 on Jul 12, 2011 20:04:15 GMT -6
I like a good fight every now and again because it shows that they are competing and give a damn about winning. I just hate it when they bring off the field crap to practice and fight over it. Then again you let them hit each other a few times and it might get everyone else going.
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Post by puddleduck1 on Jul 17, 2011 22:49:28 GMT -6
The team that would win a fight will usually win the game. If your have no fights, your not working hard enough.
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 18, 2011 21:10:22 GMT -6
It's a win/win situation. Fighting means there is passion, and as coaches we can allow as much or as little fighting as we want. Then....we can use it against them during conditioning if need be. I get worried when we don't get into at least a few scraps throughout the season.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 19, 2011 11:41:02 GMT -6
Honestly, this is a CYA deal for me. You have to stay on top of this because you could be looking at the end of your career if you don't step in quick and put down a fight. Yeah, I let me guys bang around and get p-ssed at each other but I jump on top of it when it gets out of hand.
Several years ago, a fight broke out in practice and a player broke his hand when he landed a punch on the other kid's face mask. The staff saw the animosity brewing for a long time but didn't step in when it turned into a shoving match. The kid was obviously stupid for throwing punches at a helmet but that argument didn't fly when mom and dad wanted the school to pay for the medical bills. Several teachers on staff ended up with write-ups in their teaching files because they didn't intervene when they should have.
We had a kid last year that was a total sloth and the kids really took after him. They beat the hell out of him during drills (within the rules of the game)but we were always right there to break anything up when it started to get ugly.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 19, 2011 11:42:21 GMT -6
I like a good fight every now and again because it shows that they are competing and give a {censored} about winning. [glow=red,2,300] I just hate it when they bring off the field crap to practice and fight over it.[/glow] Then again you let them hit each other a few times and it might get everyone else going. Nine out of ten fights I have seen in practice are over this kind of thing. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 19, 2011 11:58:31 GMT -6
why are they fighting?
is player A cheap-shotting player B? that is a problem on the coach for not addressing the first time he saw it. cheap shots can happen. this is a teachable moment. chew the 1st guy out for doing it in the first place. chew the 2nd guy out for retaliating. not the best way to handle adversity on game day.
is player A kicking player B's ass all over the field? poor way for player B to handle it - i can't whip you in football so i'll just fight you. not exactly what i want my kid to do on friday night when/if he's getting it handed to him. try to teach 'em to handle adversity better.
is it something from the school day? out of coaches control before-hand, really since you may not have any way of knowing. however, is it "right" or "ok"?
tough one-on-one drill where neither wants to give an inch, whistle blows but neither wants to appear to give in, so they keep at it until it turns to a pushing/shoving/fight? still a teachable moment. handle it as coaches on the whistle - get their attention with lots of whistles & "hey, hey" stuff to get 'em refocused on practice, the drill is over.
please explain the CAUSE of a fight that would be ok and/or encouraged? WHY do you want/like your players to fight?
not that it's the end of the world if a fight happens, and they do. but we don't want them, we use them as teachable moments. 15 yards is a big deal. getting kicked out of the game is a big deal. which means losing control and fighting is a big deal. we try to teach them better ways to handle that adversity, rather than fighting.
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 19, 2011 13:21:56 GMT -6
why are they fighting? is player A cheap-shotting player B? that is a problem on the coach for not addressing the first time he saw it. cheap shots can happen. this is a teachable moment. chew the 1st guy out for doing it in the first place. chew the 2nd guy out for retaliating. not the best way to handle adversity on game day. is player A kicking player B's {censored} all over the field? poor way for player B to handle it - i can't whip you in football so i'll just fight you. not exactly what i want my kid to do on friday night when/if he's getting it handed to him. try to teach 'em to handle adversity better. is it something from the school day? out of coaches control before-hand, really since you may not have any way of knowing. however, is it "right" or "ok"? tough one-on-one drill where neither wants to give an inch, whistle blows but neither wants to appear to give in, so they keep at it until it turns to a pushing/shoving/fight? still a teachable moment. handle it as coaches on the whistle - get their attention with lots of whistles & "hey, hey" stuff to get 'em refocused on practice, the drill is over. please explain the CAUSE of a fight that would be ok and/or encouraged? WHY do you want/like your players to fight? not that it's the end of the world if a fight happens, and they do. but we don't want them, we use them as teachable moments. 15 yards is a big deal. getting kicked out of the game is a big deal. which means losing control and fighting is a big deal. we try to teach them better ways to handle that adversity, rather than fighting. The fighting I have seen in practice is in the trenches. It is in a controlled enviroment, always is. During inside hull, or good vs goods the level of competition is raised. Don't get me wrong, I don't support a full on brawl, but I get worried if our guys don't bang around and get sideways during an intense session. Either the OL gets pissed cause he is getting beat, or the DL get pissed cause he's getting held...either way, like Parcells says, "football is really a great laboratory for human behavior because sensitivity isn't tolerated." With that said, when a fight or skirmish does break out...I don't jump up and down and celebrate....I teach. However, my admission is strictly just that....as far as the athletes know, they think I am furious that they let themselves break down and fight, instead of handling between the whistles. I want them to fight, but with football technique and intense quickness and a relentless attitude. I guess to clarify, behind closed doors, I can admit I like when tempers flare. I would rather work with kids that have a little stink in their neck verses kids that just take it and give in to the fact they are getting beat. I want fighters, period. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 19, 2011 13:27:01 GMT -6
do you like it when a kid just can't get that bench press max of 250 lbs ... he's tried a couple of times, can't get it so jumps up and knocks the bench over because he's got a little stink in his next and didn't just give in to the fact that he was getting beat?
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 19, 2011 13:28:41 GMT -6
i really am not concerned with our kids fighting. it happens. when it does, we have to address it.
however, i don't think we are a 'better' team because we fight every 2 weeks... or that our OL is soft because they haven't gotten into a fight in a month.
just find a difference in competing vs fighting. would rather have the guy that say, "let's go again" than "F-you," punch, bang, boom
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 19, 2011 13:41:31 GMT -6
do you like it when a kid just can't get that bench press max of 250 lbs ... he's tried a couple of times, can't get it so jumps up and knocks the bench over because he's got a little stink in his next and didn't just give in to the fact that he was getting beat? Yes. |
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 19, 2011 13:45:03 GMT -6
i really am not concerned with our kids fighting. it happens. when it does, we have to address it. however, i don't think we are a 'better' team because we fight every 2 weeks... or that our OL is soft because they haven't gotten into a fight in a month. just find a difference in competing vs fighting. would rather have the guy that say, "let's go again" than "F-you," punch, bang, boom I want the mentality, more than the emotion. However, if the emotion is there...the passion is there. It means something to him. He isn't hanging his head, he's ready go at it again and he will not be denied. To each his own... |
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 19, 2011 13:51:20 GMT -6
i really am not concerned with our kids fighting. it happens. when it does, we have to address it. however, i don't think we are a 'better' team because we fight every 2 weeks... or that our OL is soft because they haven't gotten into a fight in a month. just find a difference in competing vs fighting. would rather have the guy that say, "let's go again" than "F-you," punch, bang, boom I want the mentality, more than the emotion. However, if the emotion is there...the passion is there. It means something to him. He isn't hanging his head, he's ready go at it again and he will not be denied. To each his own... he just can't get off the block... the guard is pancaking him. but, he won't be denied so on the 3rd play, after he's been pancaked, he decks the guard.... and, on the 4th play... he still gets pancaked ... but he won't be denied... actually, we are probably of the same mindset - fighting isn't really the goal - we want them to compete. if you get beat, refocus, suck it up, dig down harder, blah, blah... get the job done. grabbing the opponent's facemask & fighting isn't getting his job done. it isn't accomplishing the end result - do your job. so, competing is better than fighting... "let's go again - right now!!" raising your level, better technique, etc. losing composure doesn't help that. now, the most common thing that happens when you have 2 competitive guys going at it is when the whistle blows neither wants to be the one to "give in" ... they are trying to 'win' the battle. as coaches, we have to recognize the shoving, {censored}-talking that happens.. address it in a positive manner (praise the passion, teach the composure) before it gets to a full blown fight. i wouldn't think it very productive in the long run to see that brewing and not address it hoping that a "fight" break out between the 2 because we feel that makes us better. compete, composure ... focus on the job at hand, etc. |
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 19, 2011 14:18:56 GMT -6
I want the mentality, more than the emotion. However, if the emotion is there...the passion is there. It means something to him. He isn't hanging his head, he's ready go at it again and he will not be denied. To each his own... he just can't get off the block... the guard is pancaking him. but, he won't be denied so on the 3rd play, after he's been pancaked, he decks the guard.... and, on the 4th play... he still gets pancaked ... but he won't be denied... actually, we are probably of the same mindset - fighting isn't really the goal - we want them to compete. if you get beat, refocus, suck it up, dig down harder, blah, blah... get the job done. grabbing the opponent's facemask & fighting isn't getting his job done. it isn't accomplishing the end result - do your job. so, competing is better than fighting... "let's go again - right now!!" raising your level, better technique, etc. losing composure doesn't help that. now, the most common thing that happens when you have 2 competitive guys going at it is when the whistle blows neither wants to be the one to "give in" ... they are trying to 'win' the battle. as coaches, we have to recognize the shoving, {censored}-talking that happens.. address it in a positive manner (praise the passion, teach the composure) before it gets to a full blown fight. i wouldn't think it very productive in the long run to see that brewing and not address it hoping that a "fight" break out between the 2 because we feel that makes us better. compete, composure ... focus on the job at hand, etc. Agreed. Very well put..... However, know that pancakes only happen at breakfast, we are at dinner. It won't happen. I want them to compete and fight. I don't want my DL getting pancaked, and they better be fighting (with hands) to get off the block, defeat the block, and get to the ball. I think your taking the "fighting" literal, or I am just a dumb football coach that can't quite articulate enough, but from a defensive standpoint we will have and will be an offensive, attacking, fighting defense. We will fight, scrap, scrape, bull, spin, rip, club, punch, pull....whatever it takes we will have a "fighters" mentality and we will NOT be denied. Won't happen. We are better than you, and you need to be reminded of that. We will break your will, and we won't stop. Go stand next to your coach with your cap on, cause we will be relentless. We will get to your QB, and we will go through your fat butt every play to get there. We will fight in the battle, and win the war. We will win. We expect to win, and we will win. You want to go at it again, let's roll...I will kick your butt again, because my best is good enough to dominate yours. You want to catch a pass over the middle, get ready for a nap. You want to pass, start warming up your back up QB, cause your starter just grabbed the clipboard and pencil...I don't think he wants no more. Your RB is a stud huh, ok, we will break his will. 11 guys, 11 missiles every play hitting their target with relentless power. We will beat you. We will out work you. We will out hit you. We will out fight you. Our target on you is bigger than yours on us. We will win, that is just how it is going to be. I want fighters like that on defense...and on offense too ;D By the way, how come I get censored on pi$$ and you can throw down defication slang words. ;D |
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 19, 2011 14:25:26 GMT -6
Btw, you have to be a little insane to be on defense....if your not a little psycho, stay over on the offense ;D
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jonnyjon
Sophomore Member
cOUrage
Posts: 141
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Post by jonnyjon on Jul 21, 2011 11:49:02 GMT -6
I don't see how its a good thing. People only start fist type fights if they are getting worked and can't win when playing by the rules. So instead of trying harder to defeat someone on the next play, they are going to try and fight in between or do something outside the rules of the game to gain an advantage. I've seen a player in a game not chase after the ball carrier so they could try and get cheap shots on opposing players. When I think of people that start fights between plays (don't stop at the whistle) I think of selfish people who apparently are not good football players and not good teammates.
You're trying to build team unity, are you not?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 21, 2011 12:44:47 GMT -6
However, know that pancakes only happen at breakfast, we are at dinner. It won't happen. I want them to compete and fight. I don't want my DL getting pancaked, and they better be fighting (with hands) to get off the block, defeat the block, and get to the ball. I think your taking the "fighting" literal, or I am just a dumb football coach that can't quite articulate enough, but from a defensive standpoint we will have and will be an offensive, attacking, fighting defense. We will fight, scrap, scrape, bull, spin, rip, club, punch, pull....whatever it takes we will have a "fighters" mentality and we will NOT be denied. Won't happen. We are better than you, and you need to be reminded of that. We will break your will, and we won't stop. Go stand next to your coach with your cap on, cause we will be relentless. We will get to your QB, and we will go through your fat butt every play to get there. We will fight in the battle, and win the war. We will win. We expect to win, and we will win. You want to go at it again, let's roll...I will kick your butt again, because my best is good enough to dominate yours. You want to catch a pass over the middle, get ready for a nap. You want to pass, start warming up your back up QB, cause your starter just grabbed the clipboard and pencil...I don't think he wants no more. Your RB is a stud huh, ok, we will break his will. 11 guys, 11 missiles every play hitting their target with relentless power. We will beat you. We will out work you. We will out hit you. We will out fight you. Our target on you is bigger than yours on us. We will win, that is just how it is going to be. Yawn---  |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 21, 2011 12:46:46 GMT -6
do you like it when a kid just can't get that bench press max of 250 lbs ... he's tried a couple of times, can't get it so jumps up and knocks the bench over because he's got a little stink in his next and didn't just give in to the fact that he was getting beat? Yes. Sounds like a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum. |
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 21, 2011 19:34:17 GMT -6
Sounds like a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum. Pot calling the kettle black I suppose....... |
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Post by fantom on Jul 21, 2011 19:38:15 GMT -6
Is this all leading anywhere? Any chance we can get back to football here?
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Post by sandstorm on Jul 21, 2011 19:54:00 GMT -6
Is this all leading anywhere? Any chance we can get back to football here? Absolutely! I'm all in....lead us in that direction, please  |
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