|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 29, 2011 13:36:18 GMT -6
Coaching Youth Football Teams With Small Numbers0 from my blog today.
Several youth football coaches have emailed me this last week looking for advice for aggressively conditioning teams with very small numbers. These coaches were expecting to field teams with just 14-15 kids on their team, while competing against teams with 25-30 kids.
While I agree, conditioning is important when you have teams with small numbers, there is much more to maxing out that equation than spending all your precious practice time conditioning. First and foremost the simplest thing is to make sure and go no-huddle max slowdown. Going no-huddle saves your kids from having to run in and out of the huddle all game on offense. For those that like to shuttle in plays with kids, you eliminate that running as well. As for the insanity of having your Quarterback run to the sidelines on every play- no more of that either. More importantly you the Offensive Coordinator, sets the tempo by not calling the play in until there is just 10 seconds left on the ready to play clock. By doing this you can often times take a game that has 65 total offensive snaps and make it a 50 offensive snap game.
Shorten the game, give you kids a chance to catch every second of breath they can before you run the next play. Of course there are more aggressive ways to slow down games like not chasing the ball down on incompletions or having the ballcarrier set the ball down wherever he lands. You could onside kick every time to save your kids the energy of having to run down the field 30 yards and chase down an open field runner. As a coach you have to think about how far you are going to push the envelope.
Going no-huddle as a starting point is a no-brainer when faced with this dilemma.
What other ideas do other coaches employ?
|
|
|
|
Post by mhcoach on Jun 29, 2011 15:03:29 GMT -6
DC
Slowing a game down for us, we call squeezinng the air out of the ball. Several times I have used this idea for a specific opponnent. I haven't used this concept since commiting to the Spread, we always were a run first offense. We played extremely conservative, always playing field position & clock. We ran the ball tackle to tackle, huddled with a coach timimg the huddle from the ready(we wanted the ball snapped with 5-7 seconds on the play clock). On defense we were slow to roll off the pile, & stood over the ball with our huddle to prevent the offense from quick snapping us.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Jun 29, 2011 15:33:03 GMT -6
I have a buddy who did an informal study and came to the conclusion that if you throw 3 incomplete passes in a row, you will take about 17 seconds off the clock. On the other hand, if you run the ball three plays in a row, you can take well over 2 minutes off the clock on each position even if you don't get a single first down! Last year, a buddy and I took over a 6th/7th grade program that had been down for a long time...top athletes didn't play, the kids we did have didn't have a lot of experience...only about 16 players total, including 6th graders and we were playing in a league in which all of the other teams have all 7th graders. Needless to say, we didn't have a lot to work with. What we realized early on was that we probably weren't going to win a lot of games by being "traditional" so this is what we did: 1) No passing. We threw the ball 3 times last year in 7 games. For us, calling a pass was a risky move because if the pass was incomplete, the clock would stop. We did not want that clock to stop running 2) Take as much time as possible between plays. That meant huddling up, calling the play and then going up to the line of scrimmage and waiting until the exact last second before snapping the ball. In my state this is made easy because the umpire will start making a hand gesture 5 seconds before a delay of game penalty is called. 3) Punt on fourth down. In our league, this was a no-brainer because we didn't have special teams. When you decided to punt, the official would simply walk off 35 yards in the opposite direction. Easiest 35 yards of field position we ever gained! 4) Don't take risks on defense. We played your WT 6 defense last year and didn't get fancy. I can count on one hand the number of times we blitzed in our 7 games. Our kids knew their run fits and while people did score on us, it was never quick. We made people earn it. Basically, our goal was to speed up the game as much as possible...to do whatever we could to eat up clock and prevent the other team from having additional positions. The thing is, when you aren't very good, you can't help out the other team by doing dumb things. We still only went 3-4 last year but, two of those games went down to the very end (we lost one game 14-6 and the other game 14-8). The third loss was 22-0 against the best team in the league (that was actually the second closest score they had all year) and then our last game we got destroyed 52-0 (long story...  ). This was after the previous year in which the average score was 37-6 against us. But, because we were competitive last year, our numbers are WAY up. The organization last year (6-8th graders) had about 30 kids total. This year, we are already at 47 and I'm confident that we will have 50 by the time school starts. In fact, the league administration was so happy with our efforts that they put me and m buddy in charge of the 8th grade team as well as the 6th/7th grade team. So, while winning is all well and good, competing is often the first step...find a way to level the playing field and give yourself a chance to hang around. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcomet on Jun 30, 2011 14:34:56 GMT -6
I have a buddy who did an informal study and came to the conclusion that if you throw 3 incomplete passes in a row, you will take about 17 seconds off the clock. On the other hand, if you run the ball three plays in a row, you can take well over 2 minutes off the clock on each position even if you don't get a single first down! Last year, a buddy and I took over a 6th/7th grade program that had been down for a long time...top athletes didn't play, the kids we did have didn't have a lot of experience...only about 16 players total, including 6th graders and we were playing in a league in which all of the other teams have all 7th graders. Needless to say, we didn't have a lot to work with. What we realized early on was that we probably weren't going to win a lot of games by being "traditional" so this is what we did: 1) No passing. We threw the ball 3 times last year in 7 games. For us, calling a pass was a risky move because if the pass was incomplete, the clock would stop. We did not want that clock to stop running 2) Take as much time as possible between plays. That meant huddling up, calling the play and then going up to the line of scrimmage and waiting until the exact last second before snapping the ball. In my state this is made easy because the umpire will start making a hand gesture 5 seconds before a delay of game penalty is called. 3) Punt on fourth down. In our league, this was a no-brainer because we didn't have special teams. When you decided to punt, the official would simply walk off 35 yards in the opposite direction. Easiest 35 yards of field position we ever gained! 4) Don't take risks on defense. We played your WT 6 defense last year and didn't get fancy. I can count on one hand the number of times we blitzed in our 7 games. Our kids knew their run fits and while people did score on us, it was never quick. We made people earn it. Basically, our goal was to speed up the game as much as possible...to do whatever we could to eat up clock and prevent the other team from having additional positions. The thing is, when you aren't very good, you can't help out the other team by doing dumb things. We still only went 3-4 last year but, two of those games went down to the very end (we lost one game 14-6 and the other game 14-8). The third loss was 22-0 against the best team in the league (that was actually the second closest score they had all year) and then our last game we got destroyed 52-0 (long story... ). This was after the previous year in which the average score was 37-6 against us. But, because we were competitive last year, our numbers are WAY up. The organization last year (6-8th graders) had about 30 kids total. This year, we are already at 47 and I'm confident that we will have 50 by the time school starts. In fact, the league administration was so happy with our efforts that they put me and m buddy in charge of the 8th grade team as well as the 6th/7th grade team. So, while winning is all well and good, competing is often the first step...find a way to level the playing field and give yourself a chance to hang around. 19delta Good stuff Thanks |
|
|
|
Post by coachschro on Jun 30, 2011 19:45:39 GMT -6
I guess I have some questions/concerns...
We are going to have out between 15-20 on our 5th/6th grade team this fall. We are a 3a size school in Kansas(about 50 kids per grade). We are not a top notch play on espn youth team, but I don't understand the point of slowing the game down because your kids are out of shape. At this age with the exception of a few kids, we could play 2 games in a day. These kids go play basketball tournies in the summer where they play 5-8 games in a weekend. So this suprised me that teams have a group of youth kids so out of shape they can't play one football game at normal pace.
As far as the post about cutting the number of offensive plays and defensive plays in half to be more competitive, this is my concern: So your going to cut the experience of the kids in half? You have linemen who can't pass block, receivers who don't run routes or get a chance to catch passes, quarterbacks who don't get to throw or learn the passing game. Are you doing this to only lose 14-7 instead of 28-7? I really don't care about the score at the youth level, we are going to run our stuff on offense and defense and teach teach teach. We believe with this the success will come. We also sell the kids and the parents on this philosophy.
I'm completely open to what others thoughts are...
|
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Jun 30, 2011 20:21:17 GMT -6
Are you doing this to only lose 14-7 instead of 28-7? Yep. At the point our program is in, we aren't "ready" to win by playing "conventional" football. Our kids have experienced such little success in previous years that they don't know how to win...they don't know what it takes to even compete. And when you are getting your head kicked in by 5-6 scores every week, kids aren't going to play....kids don't want to play on a team that sucks and gets embarrassed week after week. So, where we are at in regards to the program is simply teaching kids how to compete...teaching kids that they are just as good as those kids across from them. Once those kids gain some confidence and learn how to compete, we can start playing more "conventional" football. Believe me...we are teaching our a$$es off. This is my second year as a junior high football coach after coaching high school ball for the pervious ten years. We have done more coaching in these last two years than in the previous 10 combined. And the parents and kids are buying in. Like I said previously, we barely had 30 6th, 7th, and 8th graders last year. This year, we are going to have 50. So we feel really good about the direction in which we have things going. |
|
|
|
Post by coachschro on Jun 30, 2011 20:45:58 GMT -6
No doubt there is more teaching/coaching going on at the youth level. After coaching high school and college, I have had a similar experience to you with the amount of time it takes to teach kids this young...
|
|
|
|
Post by coachschro on Jun 30, 2011 20:49:53 GMT -6
Some of this is probably just philosophy driven, but the biggest equalizer in youth football is the ability to throw the ball. Youth defenses hardly ever see it and don't know how to stop it, so aren't you holding yourself back a little by not throwing the ball some? Even the great double wing and single wing teams I have seen get huge playaction pass plays... Curious what your thought is on this?
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jun 30, 2011 21:29:36 GMT -6
I've seen the ball stay alive on a wedge play for a ridiculous length of time. Doesn't matter that the runner's progress is stopped if he's not being held by an opponent at the time.
Running outside the hash marks has got to add a few secs. to readying the ball for play.
|
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Jul 1, 2011 8:58:06 GMT -6
Youth defenses hardly ever see it and don't know how to stop it, so aren't you holding yourself back a little by not throwing the ball some? For the group of kids we had last year, my answer would be no. We had very little talent...no size, no height, not enough good athletes, and many kids who had never played before. This year, we will throw the ball more. We will have a pretty good group of 7th grade athletes and our 8th grade athletes now have a year of the offense under their belts. In fact, I expect our passing game to be successful this year because the other teams in the conference will think that we are going to run as much as we did a year ago. |
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Jul 1, 2011 8:59:55 GMT -6
Running outside the hash marks has got to add a few secs. to readying the ball for play. As long as you coach your kids up to NOT run out of bounds. That's why we don't run many sweeps and tosses to the perimeter...too easy for an athletic defense to string the play out and run your player out of bounds. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcomet on Jul 1, 2011 13:42:19 GMT -6
I guess I have some questions/concerns... We are going to have out between 15-20 on our 5th/6th grade team this fall. We are a 3a size school in Kansas(about 50 kids per grade). We are not a top notch play on espn youth team, but I don't understand the point of slowing the game down because your kids are out of shape. At this age with the exception of a few kids, we could play 2 games in a day. These kids go play basketball tournies in the summer where they play 5-8 games in a weekend. So this suprised me that teams have a group of youth kids so out of shape they can't play one football game at normal pace. As far as the post about cutting the number of offensive plays and defensive plays in half to be more competitive, this is my concern: So your going to cut the experience of the kids in half? You have linemen who can't pass block, receivers who don't run routes or get a chance to catch passes, quarterbacks who don't get to throw or learn the passing game. Are you doing this to only lose 14-7 instead of 28-7? I really don't care about the score at the youth level, we are going to run our stuff on offense and defense and teach teach teach. We believe with this the success will come. We also sell the kids and the parents on this philosophy. I'm completely open to what others thoughts are... coachschro, I don't want to speak for coach Cisar, but for us slowing the game down isn't to lose the game. It’s to Control the game. If I get film on a team that is bigger and faster than we are, why would I play to their strength? If I limit how many plays they can run, why wouldn't I? I'm not in the same situation as coach Delta. I have a pretty good team and I'm trying to win every game, but I'm doing it the way that helps my team win. That doesn't mean I limit players playing time or not allowing a player reps. I play every kid from the superstar to the little guy. All have a roll if we are going to win as a TEAM. Hypothetical: If a team is up by say one point to a team with good speed and big play ability. Start of the fourth quarter. Are you going to run as many plays as possible to rep players? Or are you going to slow the game down and give your kids a chance to still a game from a better opponent? I understand your concerns about giving the players as many reps as possible, but you can get reps and win games at the same time. |
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Jul 1, 2011 15:03:22 GMT -6
I'm not in the same situation as coach Delta. I have a pretty good team and I'm trying to win every game, but I'm doing it the way that helps my team win. That doesn't mean I limit players playing time or not allowing a player reps. I play every kid from the superstar to the little guy. All have a roll if we are going to win as a TEAM. Yeah...what he said! Even when we start winning games (we will), we aren't going to change our philosophy that much. We are still going to run the ball physically, we are going to move the chains, and we are going to milk the clock for all it is worth. Teams like ours...we can be very frustrating to the opposition because we are so deliberate. What often happens is that the coaches on the other team start to lose their patience and then they start doing things they normally don't do because they aren't getting all of the possessions they are used to having. That's what we want to do...we want to frustrate them and get them out of their usual comfort zone. A buddy of mine calls it "Komodo Football"....we tell our kids that we are like the Komodo Dragon...we are going to bite you on the ankle and keep our patience while you die a slow and agonizing death! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jul 1, 2011 15:55:10 GMT -6
I guess I have some questions/concerns... We are going to have out between 15-20 on our 5th/6th grade team this fall. We are a 3a size school in Kansas(about 50 kids per grade). We are not a top notch play on espn youth team, but I don't understand the point of slowing the game down because your kids are out of shape. At this age with the exception of a few kids, we could play 2 games in a day. These kids go play basketball tournies in the summer where they play 5-8 games in a weekend. So this suprised me that teams have a group of youth kids so out of shape they can't play one football game at normal pace. As far as the post about cutting the number of offensive plays and defensive plays in half to be more competitive, this is my concern: So your going to cut the experience of the kids in half? You have linemen who can't pass block, receivers who don't run routes or get a chance to catch passes, quarterbacks who don't get to throw or learn the passing game. Are you doing this to only lose 14-7 instead of 28-7? I really don't care about the score at the youth level, we are going to run our stuff on offense and defense and teach teach teach. We believe with this the success will come. We also sell the kids and the parents on this philosophy. I'm completely open to what others thoughts are... If you have 15 kids- no chance they dont get enough playing time. When you play 14 vs 30- and it does happen for some. You need to have a plan in place to be able to compete and survive to play another day, Youth basketball teams play 30-40 games in a year, you dont do that in football- totally different game. You only need 5 in basketball, completely different equation. No "fat freddies" playing the entire game in basketball in 95 degree heat with 65% humidity. |
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jul 1, 2011 16:27:03 GMT -6
I guess I have some questions/concerns... We are going to have out between 15-20 on our 5th/6th grade team this fall. We are a 3a size school in Kansas(about 50 kids per grade). We are not a top notch play on espn youth team, but I don't understand the point of slowing the game down because your kids are out of shape. At this age with the exception of a few kids, we could play 2 games in a day. These kids go play basketball tournies in the summer where they play 5-8 games in a weekend. So this suprised me that teams have a group of youth kids so out of shape they can't play one football game at normal pace. As far as the post about cutting the number of offensive plays and defensive plays in half to be more competitive, this is my concern: So your going to cut the experience of the kids in half? You have linemen who can't pass block, receivers who don't run routes or get a chance to catch passes, quarterbacks who don't get to throw or learn the passing game. Are you doing this to only lose 14-7 instead of 28-7? I really don't care about the score at the youth level, we are going to run our stuff on offense and defense and teach teach teach. We believe with this the success will come. We also sell the kids and the parents on this philosophy. I'm completely open to what others thoughts are... If you have 15 kids- no chance they dont get enough playing time. When you play 14 vs 30- and it does happen for some. You need to have a plan in place to be able to compete and survive to play another day, Youth basketball teams play 30-40 games in a year, you dont do that in football- totally different game. You only need 5 in basketball, completely different equation. No "fat freddies" playing the entire game in basketball in 95 degree heat with 65% humidity. Interesting...in my local youth organization--don't think they are affiliated with pop warner or AYF or anything,just a large community league with maybe 10-15 teams per age division and 4 to 5 divisions. Each team is generally around 16-19 players( each of which must play the entire game on at least one side of the ball) ... however you often saw the teams winning the championships with 14-15 players. J"Clever" but jerk coaches RAN off the lesser players, allowing their better players to play both ways. |
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jul 1, 2011 22:50:39 GMT -6
If you have 15 kids- no chance they dont get enough playing time. When you play 14 vs 30- and it does happen for some. You need to have a plan in place to be able to compete and survive to play another day, Youth basketball teams play 30-40 games in a year, you dont do that in football- totally different game. You only need 5 in basketball, completely different equation. No "fat freddies" playing the entire game in basketball in 95 degree heat with 65% humidity. Interesting...in my local youth organization--don't think they are affiliated with pop warner or AYF or anything,just a large community league with maybe 10-15 teams per age division and 4 to 5 divisions. Each team is generally around 16-19 players( each of which must play the entire game on at least one side of the ball) ... however you often saw the teams winning the championships with 14-15 players. J"Clever" but jerk coaches RAN off the lesser players, allowing their better players to play both ways. Atrocious, have heard of that in some areas, never seen it first hand around here. Not sure the parents or leagues would put up with it |
|
). This was after the previous year in which the average score was 37-6 against us.
