|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jun 10, 2011 3:23:48 GMT -6
I thought this should be broken out to where it wouldn't distract from the existing thread. Mhcoach wrote:
I'm trying to understand what went on there. Did you somehow make the players look better than they were?
Was it one of those "practice hero" situations where because of what you knew of what the other coach was doing, you could direct your players to the play? One of those situations where for a drill to work, one side has to play dumb?
That sort of thing comes up a lot, although usually from what I've seen it's the players and not the coaches who get the wrong idea. What I've tried to do in most cases is make restrictive rules for what the players are allowed to do in the drill. They ask me, "But in a game I could do this, so wouldn't that be more realistic?" And I have to explain that sometimes to isolate one skill or another at a time, you have to restrict what everyone can do to make it better practice for game conditions.
Am I in the right ball park, or is there some other explanation as to what went on?
|
|
|
|
Post by mhcoach on Jun 10, 2011 7:33:05 GMT -6
Bob
Here's basically what happened. The varsity ran 2 covers on D, a poorly coached version of Cover 3 & an even worse version of Cover 1. On our first play we ran 4 verts, the QB looked off the safety & threw the inside vert for a wide open TD. We knew their coverages & even had an audible in if they came up in C1. Doing it once to point out the weakness was ok, doing it twice to emphasize it was a little self serving, the third time with vigor a little too much. The fourth time clearly obnoxious. When they changed the cover we aubidled at the line to switch pass, again they had no answer. Yes, it made us look better then we were, worse still it demoralized the varsity. I had made this about my coaching vs the DC coaching. Even though we were the JV & he was the Varsity, they didn't stand a chance. In a way it was a poor parlor trick. Making things worse we were rather loud about our success. The Varsity Offense on the other hand was very ineffective, this made things even worse. One thing I have learned is never humiliate the varsity.
The best advice I have ever given you is to get involved with a good program. When you see how a good program runs practice & all the little things get done, then you can appreciate just what is involved running a team. It seems like bad teams consistently do poorly & good teams strive for excellance. The only way a coach can learn these things is be a part of a good team.
Hope that explains things.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 12, 2011 7:50:45 GMT -6
Bob The best advice I have ever given you is to get involved with a good program. When you see how a good program runs practice & all the little things get done, then you can appreciate just what is involved running a team. It seems like bad teams consistently do poorly & good teams strive for excellance. The only way a coach can learn these things is be a part of a good team. Hope that explains things. Joe GREAT advise Best way to learn is to be side by side with someone that is at the top of their game |
|
|
|
Post by mhcoach on Jun 12, 2011 8:41:30 GMT -6
DC
If I was in Nebraska I would want to coach with you. There is so much more to coaching then X's & O's. The difference between being great & being mediocre is in the details. I have given Bob this advice on more then 1 occasion. Having been in NYC I understand the limitations he is under, & just how poor most of the coaching really is. Since he cares so much & wants to be better, the only answer is to get involved with a good team. There are options for him.
Joe
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jun 12, 2011 10:32:43 GMT -6
Best way to learn is to be side by side with someone that is at the top of their game That goes for lots of things, not just football! Probably most things in the world. Right now I'm mainly working on career stuff (just about to finally get a well-connected client for the clinical trials -- long story) and have to wedge football in there. I was approached by somebody to coach in the Yonkers Parks Dept. program, but still being carless I'm going to pass on that in favor of asking to coach again close to home in the Pelham Bay Warriors. I'll see if by staying with the Pee Wee Div. I can get a team where I get a little more responsibility -- preferably a team with hardly any players who've been in the Pee Wees for a year. I know Coach Dave trusts me now, but I can't see him giving anyone much responsibility & authority except when it comes to my weakness -- scouting for the draft, which Coach Brutus was so successful at. I haven't burned my bridges to the NBYSA (Co-Op City) organiz'n, which may be in a higher-powered league than the Warriors, but I don't know if they're better organized than in 2007. I might like to get back some time to the Gun Hill Rebels/Gridiron Elite club, which has a team that plays in a college club circuit that someone at Delphi's single wing etc. forum corresponds about, but the way I was treated in 2008 still leaves me cold. I don't know how someone can tell whether a club has a good coaching organiz'n other than by getting a recommendation or trying them out for a season. In the meantime I'll keep advising and getting feedback from afar regarding my offense ideas. Coach Will in Texas is HC of a fall team that has mostly the same players as the spring team, and he wants to keep using the offset (sidesaddle) QB and has expressed interest in incorporating thrown snaps as well. That's where my interest mostly lies -- single wing offense with the QB in a U.Tenn.-like position (except facing the WB rather than butt to him) -- but if I can get feedback re the use of a QB facing sideways in other formations, that's useful too. Still no response from Ron Jaworski. I'd also like to see if I can get prod'n out of my fumble-producing methods for defense, and that one I think I have some realistic chance of doing with the Warriors or other local clubs. If I had the opp'ties, I'd also like to try learning from a staff one season that teaches good tackling in the head-across form, another season with a staff that teaches good chest tackling. Also I'd like to see a staff that can start with a pack of unruly kids and get & keep their att'n! Where I was in 2010 the HC started with a core of 4 or 5 kids he'd been with as a team, and then drafted players of whom some knew him and almost all were selected for compliance/coachability. Where I was in 2008 the players expected someone else to coach them and didn't trust me, and where I was in 2007 there was very little morale, discipline, or continuity of command at all. So I've never seen an example of coaches getting good command of children from scratch. Anyway, I understand the problem mhcoach had, and if I had any tendency to do that sort of thing, I'll have even less of it now, thanks! I try to get a sense from other coaches of the purpose of a drill before we do it, and not to defeat it. |
|
|
|
Post by mhcoach on Jun 12, 2011 11:20:03 GMT -6
Bob
Here's the trick, a good team will consistently win. Not go 9-1 one year & 5-4 the next. Regardless of players they will be a top team. Often you will hear, they cheat, no way every year they get the best players. They don't, they just coach the best every year.
In NYC there is a plethora of Good Teams & Bad Teams. There is also a ton of Semi Pro teams. Go & introduce yourself to the best HS team near you. I understand job restrictions & time constraints. However, showing up to a practice for a HS isn't impossible. Just watching you will soon figure out who is good & why. Even watching a bad team, you will learn. I did it for many years, coaching 3-4 teams over a calendar year, spring Semi Pro, Fall Semi Pro, & youth ball. Learn different systems, on the field, not here on the net. These are things anyone can do. When I lived in NYC it was a constant parade of football. When you make friends with a HS program often they will let you be on the sidelines. Then you can see real game management.
Good Luck!
Joe
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 12, 2011 11:22:49 GMT -6
Bob,
If you want to advance as a coach- dont look for the team that will let you do more- look for the team with the VERY BEST coaching staff- or even just the best guy. The best thing you can do right now is siddle up to the very best coach you can find and learn from him. Even if that means the only thing you get to do on your own is keep good water, hold bags and listen to how he coaches. IMO you really havent done that just yet- there has to be some quality somewhere within biking or subway distance.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jun 12, 2011 12:07:39 GMT -6
Here's the trick, a good team will consistently win. Not go 9-1 one year & 5-4 the next. Regardless of players they will be a top team. Often you will hear, they cheat, no way every year they get the best players. They don't, they just coach the best every year. While I could use that as a rough guide other things being equal, I wouldn't make that the primary determinant. I can't believe, for instance, that the coaching was that good on the team I coached on last fall, which had a good record in 2009 (2nd place) and a ridiculously good one in 2010 (mercy ruling the opponents in 7 of 8 games, shutting them out in 6). What impresses me more is someone who comes into a weak organiz'n, does relatively well, is a good organizer, and is asked to coach elsewhere. That's the description of the guy who coached the Mighty Mites in the club I was with in 2007, who had been made its president, and who I see is involved with another organiz'n now and is thought of highly by those involved. That Mighty Mites team won only 1 game that season IIRC, but really had the respect of the players, and the other teams in the NBYSA were really awful. If I wanted to be at the elbow of people in an excellent football organiz'n locally, it'd be at SUNY Maritime College, a premier varsity in NCAA Div. 3. The Warriors have a good relationship with the HC of their Buccaneers and use their facilities for many events. He nearly begged us to get involved. But I don't think I'd learn what I need to from them. Oh, I'm sure I'd learn more football. But their players are college students in a semi-military institution. That's got to be very different from working with children in a club setting. (I did apply to teach there, but that's a different story!) I have to laugh at myself about this orient'n, because a few years ago I was just interested in throwing some ideas around with football anywhere, and I dreamed of getting involved with adult amateur football (men or women "semi-pro"), which was the level of game I followed as a fan. But then people at Delphi's single wing etc. forum asked why I didn't volunteer to coach children, and I thought, why not do that for the time being? Now I'm immersed in that world and want to develop more there before I look again at adult ball. |
|
