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Post by tentboy on Jun 9, 2011 20:47:56 GMT -6
If you could hire a "consultant" at the high school level, what would be some of the things that you would like him to do? How much could you afford?
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Post by wingt2009 on Jun 9, 2011 20:56:12 GMT -6
I would hire him to do all of our fundraising. He could keep everything he made over our annual operating budget for all coaches, equipment, clinic fees, etc. We used to have something like this, it was called our school district.
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Post by lochness on Jun 9, 2011 21:01:26 GMT -6
I absolutely mean no disrespect, but I would never in a million years hire a "consultant." It's high school football, not a corporation. We're coaches. Nobody should know our teams, communities, and programs more than we do. If we don't, the district should hire a full time "consultant" to take our jobs and name HIM the head coach.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 9, 2011 21:15:50 GMT -6
I absolutely mean no disrespect, but I would never in a million years hire a "consultant." It's high school football, not a corporation. We're coaches. Nobody should know our teams, communities, and programs more than we do. If we don't, the district should hire a full time "consultant" to take our jobs and name HIM the head coach. I agree, when talking about a general "overall" consultant. This has come up a few times on the board, and it seems that there may be a market/need/desire for VERY SPECIFIC areas for consultation, but a general overall "consultant" would essentially just be another coach. So any "consultant" would have to have a particular area of expertise. I would consider Darrin Slack a "consultant", and that would be something worthwhile as he would be "consulting" on a specific area--quarterback play, particularly throwing mechanics. I could see hiring someone to help install a particular offense or defense--although this often just done for free as a professional courtesy. Previously, an experienced coach with multiple state championships posted to this board looking for the viability of being a "consultant" once he retired. Unfortunately, as Lochness points out, without a very specific knowledge, being a high school consultant is essentially useless.
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Post by tentboy on Jun 10, 2011 7:13:08 GMT -6
How about self scouting, film breakdown, game management, game and event management, coaching professional advice, not talking about hiring a consultant to "call plays".
This would be a very specific service and need that someone flys in for. Not a drinking buddy for the coach.
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Post by gapshoot76 on Jun 10, 2011 7:13:33 GMT -6
If you are looking to hire anyone, make it a coach! If you want a consultant, turn around on friday night and look in the stands. I bet you will find more than enough willing to consult for free!
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 10, 2011 7:45:26 GMT -6
How about self scouting, film breakdown, game management, game and event management, coaching professional advice, not talking about hiring a consultant to "call plays". This would be a very specific service and need that someone flys in for. Not a drinking buddy for the coach. tentboy---self scout and film breakdown are activities performed by a coach. Game management would require the "consultant" to invest a great deal of time to understand game day actions--namely he would basically put in as much time as everyone else on staff--ie coach. Event management, etc are the jobs of AD's Sorry tentboy, but like I said earlier, I really don't think there is a viable business model for a general overall "consultant". Keep in mind we haven't even discussed the headaches associated with a hiring process.
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Post by davishfc on Jun 10, 2011 8:09:21 GMT -6
If you are looking to hire anyone, make it a coach! If you want a consultant, turn around on friday night and look in the stands. I bet you will find more than enough willing to consult for free! Ain't that the truth. LMAO!!!
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Post by 19delta on Jun 10, 2011 12:15:00 GMT -6
If I ever get a chance to be a head coach again, I'm hiring Hugh Wyatt or superpower to come up and work a couple of days of camp during the summer.
I know the dub wing pretty well...have ran it with three separate programs and have learned a lot each time. With that being said, I am far from an expert while guys like Coach Wyatt and superpower are. Being able to watch coaches like that work with your kids is invaluable, IMO.
Would be money well spent!
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Post by shamespiral on Jun 10, 2011 13:53:39 GMT -6
Check out Bill Williams. He is a consultant. Well paid. And despite what the mighty Lochness says, well worth it.
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Post by gapshoot76 on Jun 10, 2011 20:47:42 GMT -6
Check out Bill Williams. He is a consultant. Well paid. And despite what the mighty Lochness says, well worth it. If well paid enough, I'd still rather have an extra coach. I'll take an extra set of eyes and ears, and someone who would impact my athletes lives for an entire year rather then someone telling me how to coach, or coaching my kids up for me for a couple of days in a camp. Not saying a "consultant" is wrong, just not in line with what I'd find valuable to spend money for football on. Not to mention I really don't have much of a budget anyway, and my district wouldn't even think about supporting me doing this either! Now, in the offseason, I as a coach would find it a valuable experience to sit down with a Bill Williams, Coach Wyatt, or any other coach that runs something similar to what I run. Thats why I drove 5 hours to sit down with a Big Ten staff this offseason. But thats in efforts to make MYSELF a better coach, and not have someone do it for me.
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Post by shamespiral on Jun 10, 2011 20:56:08 GMT -6
We all have to make decisions for our programs then deal with the consequences. Some guys drop a few K on Tony Franklin. Some drop a few K on a consultant. Some want to spend money on another assistant.
The original vibe was "is a consultant worth it?"
Of course it is if you find value in it. And if you think someone from the outside can help, jump on it.
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Post by coachbdud on Jun 10, 2011 22:07:58 GMT -6
I do have to admit that one of my dreams as a coach is for someone to think highly enough of my opinion and talents that they ask me to come to their school and teach them what and how i do what i do... to me that is the ultimate compliment, when another coach thinks that there is no better resource on a subject then yourself
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 10, 2011 22:12:29 GMT -6
when i think of a "consultant" i think of someone on a 'retainer' that may be called at any time to give advice, opinion, suggestions, or solutions at any point...
calling up a coach or visiting a staff for a week to 'learn' how to install a scheme ... to me, that isn't a consultant, that's professional development.
all high school coaches need to explore as much professional development as they can during the off-season.
i can't think of any justifiable reason that a high school coaching staff would need someone on a retainer fee so they could call them up every so often and ask "what should we do now?"
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 10, 2011 22:24:53 GMT -6
p The original vibe was "is a consultant worth it?" Of course it is if you find value in it. And if you think someone from the outside can help, jump on it. The vibe I got was more of "I was thinking of being a football consultant...what tasks do you think I could do, and what do you think my price range should be"
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Post by lochness on Jun 11, 2011 8:30:55 GMT -6
when i think of a "consultant" i think of someone on a 'retainer' that may be called at any time to give advice, opinion, suggestions, or solutions at any point... calling up a coach or visiting a staff for a week to 'learn' how to install a scheme ... to me, that isn't a consultant, that's professional development. all high school coaches need to explore as much professional development as they can during the off-season. i can't think of any justifiable reason that a high school coaching staff would need someone on a retainer fee so they could call them up every so often and ask "what should we do now?" This is the distinction I would have made as well. Thank you for clarifying!
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Post by fballcoachg on Jun 11, 2011 9:05:29 GMT -6
when i think of a "consultant" i think of someone on a 'retainer' that may be called at any time to give advice, opinion, suggestions, or solutions at any point... calling up a coach or visiting a staff for a week to 'learn' how to install a scheme ... to me, that isn't a consultant, that's professional development. all high school coaches need to explore as much professional development as they can during the off-season. i can't think of any justifiable reason that a high school coaching staff would need someone on a retainer fee so they could call them up every so often and ask "what should we do now?" This is the distinction I would have made as well. Thank you for clarifying! Also, if the business model were to be on retainer and offer service at teh drop of a hat and trouble shoot for the coach, how many coaches could you possibly service? Think of the amount of film work we do and how much we know our kids and our system, now I'm calling a consultant who doesn't have that background information and ask him a very specific question, what is the turnaround on something like that? You are going to have to watch film, learn that teams system, learn their personell, it gets to a point where it isn't financially feasible for a team to hire a consultant or it isn't financially feasible for you to offer the service. How many teams could you possibly have as clients when you look at the time involved? The whole business model doesn't seem worth it even if you could find staffs willing to buy into it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 11, 2011 9:24:02 GMT -6
This is the distinction I would have made as well. Thank you for clarifying! Also, if the business model were to be on retainer and offer service at teh drop of a hat and trouble shoot for the coach, how many coaches could you possibly service? Think of the amount of film work we do and how much we know our kids and our system, now I'm calling a consultant who doesn't have that background information and ask him a very specific question, what is the turnaround on something like that? You are going to have to watch film, learn that teams system, learn their personell, it gets to a point where it isn't financially feasible for a team to hire a consultant or it isn't financially feasible for you to offer the service. How many teams could you possibly have as clients when you look at the time involved? The whole business model doesn't seem worth it even if you could find staffs willing to buy into it. That is why the business model only works for a specific body of knowledge held by the consultant, that the consumer (football coach) converts too. That said, I am thinking of opening a consulting business for BCS coaches thinking about doing something stupid like trying to dig up dirt on an unwanted coach in waiting, or sitting on emails and lying about it. Pay me a few grand, and run the idea by me first.
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Post by shamespiral on Jun 11, 2011 9:48:46 GMT -6
Bringing in an outside expert can be of great value to the staff though. The outside perspective can be a great help especially if your staff is lacking in a specific area. Maybe that's considered "professional development".... I have had only one consultant experience. It was a positive one and very beneficial. I would def do it again.
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Post by coachbdud on Jun 11, 2011 13:27:27 GMT -6
when i think of a "consultant" i think of someone on a 'retainer' that may be called at any time to give advice, opinion, suggestions, or solutions at any point... calling up a coach or visiting a staff for a week to 'learn' how to install a scheme ... to me, that isn't a consultant, that's professional development. all high school coaches need to explore as much professional development as they can during the off-season. i can't think of any justifiable reason that a high school coaching staff would need someone on a retainer fee so they could call them up every so often and ask "what should we do now?" that makes perfect sense
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Post by hamerhead on Jun 11, 2011 13:58:31 GMT -6
I coach high school ball, I've no need for consultants. If I wanted the opinion of outsiders, I'd listen to the parents.
Now, a few good G.As on the other hand could come in handy.
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Post by blb on Jun 11, 2011 14:22:17 GMT -6
If you could hire a "consultant" at the high school level, what would be some of the things that you would like him to do? How much could you afford? If you are the head coach, and you need to hire an outside consultant, you shouldn't be the head coach.
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Post by shamespiral on Jun 11, 2011 16:05:44 GMT -6
Apparently I didn't become a know it all when I became a head coach. Part of being in charge is finding out the answers and solutions for your particular situation.
To me it's no different than any other way of advancing my knowledge....
If I bought 3 thousand dollars worth of videos, bought a "system", flew across the country to visit a college staff, or brought in a consultant what's the difference?
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Post by blb on Jun 11, 2011 16:31:06 GMT -6
If I bought 3 thousand dollars worth of videos, bought a "system", flew across the country to visit a college staff, or brought in a consultant what's the difference? Depends on how much you paid for the "consultant." We all have mentors, or should. But if I was administrator that hired you to be head coach at our school it would be because you were an expert, the absolute best coach we could get. Not have to pay for somebody to come in afterward to tell you how to do your job. Plus you should be getting feedback, positive and negative, from your staff.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 11, 2011 17:02:09 GMT -6
our district will allow us to go visit a coaching staff or clinic. they even allowed us to travel to oregon in february for the week. they typically pay for a big trip like that every other year .. all expenses paid. it's part of the professional development aspect related to coaching.
they understand that in the spring, there may be a clinic or 2 we "need" to attend to better our programs. that is a justifiable expense - clinics, college visits.
although we haven't done it as a staff, i'm sure we could justify bringing in a coach for a few days to help us install some scheme or "clinic" us at our place. heck, administrators do that all the time - pay for a speaker to enhance the teachers.
however, we could not justify paying for a consultant. we couldn't justify to our administration, school board, tax payers, community ... keeping someone - who is not on staff, mind you - on retainer throughout the course of the year because we might need a different point of view on something. or we might need a fresh outlook regarding an idea. or we might need a new idea. or we might need someone on retainer to help give us the super-secret play to win the game or a mid-season adjustment in personnel, practice schedule, scheme, etc.
how can i justify that to my administration? "hey guys ... um, i need to get an additional stipend for this guy because there may be a time this season when i just am at a loss for what to do and no one on staff is likely to help so we may have to call him and get a direction."
however, i know i can justify to my administrators the need to fund professional development. "hey, we are expanding our offensive scheme in the flexbone-option. we would like to spend this amount of money to either a) travel to ______ and spend the week collaborating with them or b) bring _______ to our place, feed him, put him up, and collaborate with him about our offenses.
so ... figure out whether you are actually talking about a consultant (retainer, on call, etc.) or if you are merely collaborating for a short time to develop yourself, your staff professionally.
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Post by shamespiral on Jun 11, 2011 17:17:45 GMT -6
And I suppose that's where the term "consultant" would have to be defined. We brought in a guy to clinic our staff specifically on special teams. He was not on retainer. He was a ST "guru" that was made aware of our needs and interest. He gave us a clinic in the areas we needed assistance on.
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Post by blb on Jun 11, 2011 17:19:17 GMT -6
Having a Special Teams "consultant" (along with Reggie Bush and family) got Pete Carroll in all kinds of trouble at USC.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 11, 2011 17:23:36 GMT -6
And I suppose that's where the term "consultant" would have to be defined. We brought in a guy to clinic our staff specifically on special teams. He was not on retainer. He was a ST "guru" that was made aware of our needs and interest. He gave us a clinic in the areas we needed assistance on. calling him your consultant would be like calling all the coaches you listened to at a clinic your consultant. paying someone to give you a first-hand clinic, hands-on clinic, whatever ... to me, falls more into professional development and not a true "consultant" for you. spend $1,000 traveling to a clinic or spend $1,000 bringing the clinic to you ... same thing.... makes sense not arguing against doing that. however, having someone on retainer throughout the season? seems like that would raise questions within our school/community about our abilities.
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Post by shamespiral on Jun 11, 2011 17:46:16 GMT -6
Well I doubt that many in our business have a true consultant then.
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Post by lochness on Jun 13, 2011 9:30:44 GMT -6
Well I doubt that many in our business have a true consultant then. But that's what the original question was about, was it not?
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