small school program practicing 7-12

Also, developmentally, drills appropriate for 18year olds are too complicated for 11 year olds. Not that they're complicated to understand standing still, but they'd be doing too much thinking and not enough moving. Conversely, things appropriate for the gr 7's may be insufficiently challenging for the older kids. As to the coaching shortage, I'm afraid I can't really help.

We did it 2 years ago. 2 groups 7-9 and 10-12. We only did Indy Drills then they would brake off into their teams. we had WR(MS coach and AD), QB/RB ( HS and MS Coach), DB( !st year and Supt), LB, OL, DL(MS Coach)

We did it on Tuesdays ( MS Plays Thur) and did 25 Indy O and 25 Indy D reduced to about 20 each as we went. so first 20 min 7-9 Indy o while 10-12 Indy D then flipped.

Got our supt and AD to Volunteer. My biggest mistake was not preparing the MS coaches and Volunteers with our drills. I thought it was great for our younger kids but our DL at the HS got worse as i did not prepare that coach to do it same with our DB as we had a first year coach and our supt.

I am thinking of doing it again this year but will do a one day explain it clinic of what drills we want done etc. I really put it together last minute the year I tried it and so it failed.

How many kids are we talking about? (I didn't see the number in your original post)

Several years back, I wanted us to combine 7th and 8th grade teams. We could do indies together and have more coaches for instruction. Once we decided to run team time, we'd split into separate teams. Turned out to be an unpopular idea.

I'd respectfully disagree about the drills for older and younger guys being a problem. Might be more difficult based on your system. For RBs, we practice shoulder skills, do a handoff drill, a square drill, rocket drill, and others that I've used with 7th graders and now freshmen. They all are applicable to seniors or 7th graders. Having guys pair up (where necessary) with players of a similar age might solve a lot of problems.

Additionally, as the lines become too long, I run the same drill in two places, side by side.

As my RBs & QBs practice plays, I have them grouped. After one group runs the play, I am urging my next group to hustle to the line and run the called play. You could have your older guys go together and younger guys going right next to them. First the left group goes, then you just look to the right and watch that group go, then back to the left where the next group goes, then back to the right, and so on. The pace would be quick.

Grouping up with the WRs and TEs would be the same as doing the running plays. Older guys run one pass, then another group, then another. This is what we do in the years where we have enough kids anyway. Seven on defense, seven on offense, seven in the huddle, and a few leftover guys getting rotated in.

I like the idea, but don't know how it would work out due to numbers. Once you team up, and your coaches have to look at specific positions and position groups, it would be hard to split up all of those grade levels. Really hard, I'd imagine. If you only have a small number of guys, it would be more manageable. In years past, our frosh team has had only two coaches. One ran the OL while the other worked with QBs, RBs, and WRs. On defense, one coached DBs and OLBs while the other did ILBs and TNTs. Not the best situation, but doable.

I wish you luck. Lots of challenges.

At a previous stop we had a 'vertical' program of 7-12. We had 6 coaches. Small school (~200 in the highschool). Our numbers were really good, 30-35+ JV and 35+ varsity on average. It was a small town rural area, so there was nothing else to do and sports were really important to the community.

State rules stated that only 9th and above could compete at the varsity level.

Our regioin/conference rules stated that all 10th graders could not play JV.

Now obviously our situation dictated certain things for us, but maybe there is something that you could gleen from it.

Our HC and DC coached varsity only. They both ran bus routes and wouldn't get done until 4:15-4:30 (school was out at 2:40). The rest of us ran the JV practice (grades 7-9) and finished up about 4-4:15 and 3 of us left for varsity practice.

1 of the coaches stayed with the kids as they got dressed and supervised while kids waited to get picked up. That JV coach would do any wash/equipment things during that time and then left and went home.

The 5 of us then did our varsity practice from 4:30-6:45ish.

It allowed us to have a certain degree of seamlessness from JV to varsity. That JV coach helped us on Friday night up in the box.

The HC really didn't care if the jv ran the exact same stuff as the varsity, he wanted to make sure that:
- the kids came to practice. miss practice, miss game time
- the kids got to have the 'varsity coaching' experience
- the kids stayed in the program and moved up
- the kids were held accountable for grades, discipline, and conduct.

We later tweaked this when the state assoc. started the 8 quarter rule, which means that kids can play 8 quarters a week. It really didn't change the plan, just that certain kids might be practicing with the varsity and still get on the field Thursday night, and there might be some kids that practice JV but 'earn' a spot to dress on Friday night.

Thank you for the insight everyone. It's been very helpful in thinking this process through. Keep it coming.

This is more about using our high school coaching staff to coach the middle school team. Rather than have two coaches with the middle school team separately during their own practice and wonder They would be in separate but side-by-side drills...never with the high school players. We just want to be able to coach them at the same time. We will not allow opportunities for that one high schooler to be a jacka$$. We just want to coach them from the time they're in 7th grade through their senior year with the same coaching staff, techniques, schemes, and drills. Could you point me in the direction of that rule? I've searched all throughout the MHSAA website and have not seen such a rule. Thanks in advance jml.

I am trying to see how much time we could dedicate to the Middle School team without taking away from the Varsity and JV.

I understand your concern completely. I don't want to spread our coaching staff thin nor limit the number of practice reps for our Varsity and JV. We are the high school staff and the high school players should be our emphasis during the season.

The Middle School plays games on Wednesday. So basically, we would have to find a creative way to be able to incorporate the Middle School on Monday and Tuesday.

Also, they do not start until the Monday before Labor Day which would be the start of Week 2 of our season. They play a 6-game season in which there are no special teams.

Two coaches would go with them on Wednesday to their game but the important factor would be that we were able to coach them with several more coaches than the two we've had in the past.

What I envision is this...

The Varsity and JV continue to watch opponent film on Mondays for an extended time at the start of practice. This is what we've done to start our week and I think it helps our guys get in the right mindset.

We watch a ton of opponent tape throughout the week because I like to give them that look as often as possible and it makes up for the time we cannot create a scout look for our defense.

We do not have a team defense segment, we go half line due to our numbers. So on Monday we are normally inside for about an hour and a half. From there we come out pre-practice, warm-up, and special teams.

I'm thinking during the film, pre-practice, warm-up, and special teams time, there could be a Middle School practice taking place on the field with everyone on staff except myself and one other coach.

That would put 5 coaches out of the field for that practice. If that ran for about 2 hours it would end right around the time of special teams on Monday. The Middle School kids would get dismissed and those coaches would then conduct their responsibilities for a typical in-season Monday practice.

Tuesday is the real challenge because the Varsity and JV don't watch film on this day. They go straight out to the practice field. We would have the Middle School out there during that time, so we would have to negotiate one day of the week completely together as a program 7-12. Wednesday we would be down two coaches because of the Middle School game.

Thursday, myself and one other coach take care of Varsity pre-game while the rest of the staff is off to the JV game. We are also looking at making Thursday the day that the Middle School watches their game film from the previous day. I want to get them acclimated to doing so before they get to high school. That would also take two coaches.

This is certainly a challenge to coordinate. In the short term, I definitely don't want to sacrifice what could be a post-season berth for our Varsity because we are trying to do too much as a staff. However, in the long term, this is what I believe needs to happen in order to sustain and build upon the success our program has had at the varsity level recently.

Thanks for the suggestion coachwoodall. That segment could certainly be incorporated and it would closely match up to the Monday schedule. We could potentially have the Middle School out of there again before the Varsity and JV come out for practice. Huge! I just never thought of lifting because it hasn't been part of our weekly practice template in the past. Sounds like the "it's the way we've always done it" sort of response I know.

But maybe this 7-12 change will force us more to think differently about what we're doing more frequently. We lift a three days a week throughout the entire off-season and we make that an emphasis. But come the season, lifting kind of goes to the back burner because we've got so much to teach and only so much time to do it in. But this could definitely be a possibility. Another factor to speak with the staff about tomorrow. Thanks again for the suggestion. I love this frickin' site!

Lifting in season can be a huge push for your overall program; keep them strong and ready for the end of the season and being ready for the playoffs.

Just thought of another bonus of the whole thing. If I remember correctly, you have a young staff without a lot of experience. Also, you have a lot on your plate b/c several of your coaches are 'not ready'. Being around those younger kids would allow them to 'try' things like play calling and player assignment. Not just calling plays, but the when and the why you call a certain play in a certain situation.

I know when I had that freedom (responsibility) it helped me to understand the why and when the boss is doing certain things, and in turn helped us to be on the same page better.

Not to get OT, but I will never forget the next to last game of the year, when I was a MS HC. Tight ball game early but broke it open in the second half, so we were trying to make some moms and dads happy. I am trying to call plays, get kids in, and manage the over game.
- Okay Johnny go in for Sammy... Where's your mouth piece?...<coach looks again at the down marker, 2nd and 10> Okay go look in the kit..... <signals Trips right>.... Timmy go in for Sammy... Where's your helmet?.... go look by the bench...<signals gun right>....Johnny you have to take the mouth piece out fo the plastic bag <coach rips open bag, while signaling trap left>..... Johnny hurry up and call Sammy's name out..... LOUDER!!.... Timmy hold on, you can go out next play.... <coach signals to hurry up and snap the ball>....<AC coach says> I can't get Jimmy to go in at OT for Danny, and Jimmy is crying over by the water cooler, he says he doesn't want to go in the game......

I understand there would be an increased workload but I don't believe it doubles for the coaching staff. I'm wondering where you see the workload double? I hope I'm not that ignorant regarding the situation because I've been thinking this over for several days now. But maybe I'm completely missing the boat on something.



I can see your argument here. I guess I hope we have individuals who have committed as coaches that the kids will respect and enjoy interacting with for that length of time. But maybe they won't. We certainly are not considering this because we believe we will lose kids over the long haul.



I understand getting the middle school coaches on board with our program expectations, traditions, and systems is the easiest way to go about it. But what's happened in the past is we have coaches who want to take on the less intense middle school commitment of:

- no off-season commitment
- starting Week 2 of the high school season
- two hour practices, two days a week (Monday & Tuesday)
- games on Wednesdays with 8 minute quarters
- no in-season weekend commitments (staff meetings, film, etc.)
- top step for middle school is ONLY $300 less than the high school assistants

I'm not real confident with what we're getting coming in as freshmen. I want to do more. I want my committed coaches out there coaches those kids and helping them get better. Adjusting our structure allows us to accomplish that. While leaving everything the status quo is me condoning what is going on.

I can't fire the other assistant, there is nobody else. Nor do I have the power to do that anyway. He needs to have consistently unfavorable evaluations in order for me to even suggest that.

He's been a good assistant but I don't know about him being in charge down there. He's not completely inept but I have greater confidence and trust in the coaches that I've worked to develop as a staff over the last four years.

Bottom line...I want more out of our middle school program. Our current coaching staff combined, despite a greater workload, will be better for those kids. It will legitimize what is considered a feeder program because lately, I'm just not impressed with their base knowledge level and development as incoming freshmen. It needs to change.

Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I don't want to be that guy. I'm not crazy. But maybe I am for even considering embarking on the structural change

We have 4 paid positions at the high school and 2 paid positions for the middle school. The positions are technically:

1) Head Coach
2) Varsity Assistant Coach
3) Head JV Coach
4) JV Assistant Coach
5) Head Middle School Coach
6) Middle School Assistant Coach

We have three volunteers, former players from my first year as Head Coach 4 years ago. They're coming on board this year at the high school level as, obviously, first year coaches. They've been attending our coaching staff meetings for the last three months to get up to speed.

Only one of the positions is officially open as of now and that is the Head Middle School Coach. I have yet to speak to the Assistant Middle School Coach from last year but he had expressed interest in the position if the Head Coach did resign.

Sorry about the lengthy explanation. I'm just trying to give you as much information as possible to make suggestions from. But, yes, this group of coaches includes the Assistant Middle School Coach from last year.

What does "we did better" mean exactly? Could you elaborate for me?

Before school for the middle school could be a possibility but I am trying to limit the transportation costs put on families in our community. 70% of the students in our district are on free or reduced lunch which isn't the highest I've heard but for a rural community in our state, it's relatively high. Couple that with being the 8th highest county in the state for unemployment. Plus, you see the gas prices nationwide which are supposed to go down but always spike near the holidays in anticipation of more travel. The middle school would begin practice right around Labor Day. So, basically, Huey I have not considered having practice before school with the middle school.

My plan that's starting to take shape is the following:

From a previous post...

The Varsity and JV continue to watch opponent film on Mondays for an extended time at the start of practice. This is what we've done to start our week and I think it helps our guys get in the right mindset.We watch a ton of opponent tape throughout the week because I like to give them that look as often as possible and it makes up for the time we cannot create a scout look for our defense.

We do not have a team defense segment, we go half line due to our numbers. So on Monday we are normally inside for about an hour and a half. From there we come out pre-practice, warm-up, and special teams.

I'm thinking during the film, pre-practice, warm-up, and special teams time, there could be a Middle School practice taking place on the field with everyone on staff except myself and one other coach.

That would put 5 coaches out of the field for that practice. If that ran for about 2 hours it would end right around the time of special teams on Monday. The Middle School kids would get dismissed and those coaches would then conduct their responsibilities for a typical in-season Monday practice.

Tuesday is the real challenge because the Varsity and JV don't watch film on this day. They go straight out to the practice field. We would have the Middle School out there during that time, so we would have to negotiate one day of the week completely together as a program 7-12. Wednesday we would be down two coaches because of the Middle School game.

Thursday, myself and one other coach take care of Varsity pre-game while the rest of the staff is off to the JV game. We are also looking at making Thursday the day that the Middle School watches their game film from the previous day. I want to get them acclimated to doing so before they get to high school. That would also take two coaches.



I never considered having several large practices. Although that may need to happen on one day of the week. This has always been about trying to use our entire coaching staff rather than dividing our forces. The battle I'm struggling with right now is finding the balance between finding ways to do things differently with our feeder program without sacrificing the high school. This is definitely keeping me up at night.

If all else fails, I just get another middle school assistant and we do what we've been doing. Bottom line, I want more out of that program. I just want more committed middle school coaches who will be doing more to develop as coaches, in general, and as coaches within our system. The combination of those two factors will certainly filter it's way down to the players.

I can't get rid of anybody I have, there isn't a line of passionate and committed coaches outside my door. The one middle school coach who remains was originally a high school coach three years ago when he started with the program. But he went down to the middle school because the time commitment was more suitable for his livelihood, he owns and operates a restaurant in town.

I'm doing my best to think outside of the box to give our program a leg up on our competition. But I keep running into dead ends and it's getting frustrating. I just keep trying to believe that there are improvements we can make. Maybe blb is right, "all you can is all you can do." Perhaps we'll just sell out on the high school and make the breakthrough that we've been after since I took this job and worry about this in 2012.