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Post by coachhusrey on May 7, 2011 21:18:44 GMT -6
what he can do to get more playing time?
I get asked this at least once a year and sometimes its easy but what do you tell the player who is just not that good?
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Post by coachcb on May 7, 2011 22:02:32 GMT -6
what he can do to get more playing time? I get asked this at least once a year and sometimes its easy but what do you tell the player who is just not that good? Just tell him to dial in, keep learning and being coachable, and to hit the off-season hard. I also offer to stay after practice whenever possible; get them some more reps or watch film and hit the chalk board. I used to give this advice and cringe at the same time; especially when it was coming from kids that I didn't view as "athletic" enough. But, I coached a junior safety a few years back who was in this boat; slow, uncoordinated, weak, and just not "athletic". He was WAYY down on the depth chart as a junior but he kept up his good work habits, worked with me after practice, hit the gym like terror in the off-season and ended up starting for us the next year. And, I was working in a very good program; the competition for that spot was tough. Honestly, there can be a really fine line between a mediocre player and a GREAT one. Now, here's the tough question. How do you respond when a kid does everything he can to get better and still ends up at the bottom of the totem pole? How do you reward them? That's a thought that has kept me up at night.
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Post by calkayne on May 8, 2011 4:30:12 GMT -6
Coach, I am in the same problem. We have good starters, but the rest of the DC is not at the same level or close to it.
Now there is one player that comes up to me at the end of every practice and says: "Coach what did you see. Where do I need to practice?" Thats the sort of player we all want, I go through a few things with him and give him direction for what he should do in his free time. He comes back and tries harder every time.
That in itself is good. But I also get asked, during games from people who arent always in practice, "When do I get on the field?". This is the annoying player. He should start by learning his playbook and getting his a$$ onto the Practice Field.
If a player is not good enough then evaluate the reasons why. If its because he isnt physically able to do his job (too slow, too weak etc) then give him a direction of what he needs to do. If it is because he doesnt know the plays and responsibilities, direct him and give him some time teaching him. If hes not in practice, then he needs to be there.
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Post by groundchuck on May 8, 2011 5:59:32 GMT -6
One if the things I ask him is why he thinks he's not playing or playing as much as he thinks he should. This way I can gauge a little bit if he is thinking he's entitled, or if he just wants to play more as most kids do.
I tell him he needs to lift and do our SAQ. If he does all the things he needs to there are very few kids we will not be able to get on the field in one way or another. I am honest and tell him it might be at special teams, or it might mean he has to change position which can open up a whole 'nuther can of worms....if the kid is a runningback but you want to move him to guard....something I's dealing with now. "Johnny, if you move to guard you probably start next year."
In hijacking the thread a little maybe we could also discuss why a kid would rather bitch about not playing at his current position when if he embrased a position change he could start and excel.
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nexthc
Junior Member
"The Golden Rule"
Posts: 439
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Post by nexthc on May 8, 2011 7:40:15 GMT -6
Be truthful to the player. Tell him that if he has a chance to play, then great. But, if there is no way in the world that he is going to play, do not tell him that if he keeps working hard, he will play. That is a flat out lie to the player and not fair to him. We have been very honest with our players and have not had too many problems regarding this issue.
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Post by coachwilliams2 on May 8, 2011 8:10:11 GMT -6
I made a list of what it takes to start for us at the position. List weight room lifts, maxes, speed (times), as well as off season attendance, camps, extra work, skills I expect of them on the field etc.
I gave it to all my position players at our post season meeting. If a player can reach all those expectations then I will get them on the field. Because if they do everything I listed, they DESERVE to be there. Make the expectations high so they and their parents know what I expect. It has cut down a lot of issues for me in this area. They always have that to refer back to.
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Post by fantom on May 8, 2011 8:33:04 GMT -6
what he can do to get more playing time? I get asked this at least once a year and sometimes its easy but what do you tell the player who is just not that good? Tell him specifically what areas of his game he needs to improve and tell him how to do it. I may suggest a position change if that would help. Personally I'd never tell a player that he has no chance of ever getting good enough to play. First of all I've been wrong about that too many times. I've seen a lot of kids who I thought didn't have it in them become servicable football players. More importantly, this is important to the kid. One of the most valuable parts of the football experience is teaching kids to work hard to maximize their potential. If it doesn't work out-if he's just not talented enough- then he still has the satisfaction of knowing that he did everything that he could. It's not tragic. That's true for teams and it's true for indivisuals.
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Post by davishfc on May 8, 2011 9:51:50 GMT -6
Just tell him to dial in, keep learning and being coachable, and to hit the off-season hard. Telling them to hit the off-season hard is challenging to do when a player asks what he can improve in Week 2. That doesn't do a whole lot for the remaining weeks of our regular season (we play a 9-game regular season in Michigan). Our practice schedule is tight so having the opportunity to get the team into the weight room, during practice, and still getting them home at a decent time is usually not possible for us. We're a small school so we don't two-platoon with an offense and defense. Most of our players play both ways. So organizing offensive, defensive, and special teams segments into the same practice schedule is extremely difficult from an efficiency standpoint. We've found a way to make it work but sacrifices have been made and one of them is the weight room, during the season anyway. We emphasize strength and speed throughout the off-season and open the weight room three days a week throughout the winter, spring, and summer leading up to the season. So unless this kid is lifting in a Weight Training class during the school day (of which we only have one class of around 35 each semester), it'll be tough for him to make that a focus for improvement during the season. I also believe that during very demanding seasons for our players (football in the fall, wrestling/basketball in the winter) it's very challenging for our players to get much further past a maintenance phase. I have not witnessed notable strength gains made during this season by the players in my Weight Training class. We don't really start to see major gains until the spring when our guys are in baseball or track or not playing a sport. At that point of the year, gaining strength can be their primary focus because they are in sports that, generally speaking, are not as demanding as the others stated earlier. This leads right on into the summer and then into the seaeson. A player trying to improve his strength and/or speed will need to, like you said, wait until the off-season. That doesn't do anything for the here and now during the season. This is unfortunate to know also, because, generally speaking, with the players we're talking about here, their lack of playing time is not due to a technique, chalk talk, or film viewing deficit. In my experience, these kids have an understanding of techniques/schemes and have made them instinctual but they just don't have it physically. Closing the gap of physical ability is the toughest task for these kids at this point. These kids are usually not big enough so they are getting destroyed, not fast enough so they are getting run by, and/or not strong enough so even when they are pitted against an opponent of equal size they are still losing because they are getting driven. The time to improve physically is not during the season but, instead, during the off-season as stated earlier. So now what? I'll give the player every opportunity to learn better through more reps after practice, more chalk talk, and more film but if I know his deficit is not of that nature then I'm lying to the kid. Especially if I know that those things are not going to do it. Damn it...the kid: is a junior weighs 130, benches 135, squats 190 (not at parallel), hang cleans 125, deadlifts 250 runs a 5.7 40. This kid, in most cases, has had every opportunity to improve. He loves the actual game of football, he just doesn't love the other preparation aspects of the game. He just can't get motivated about strength, speed, and agility training. Now I won't tell the kid this, but there's a good chance he lost his spot at birth. I mean seriously. I'm not trying to sound horrible here but that's the truth. Will I work with him as often as I can? Absolutely! But it may take three guys in front of him getting hurt before I even consider him being effective and put him in a game...that's the ultimate truth. Obviously I would never tell the kid that. Even when we're in a multiple injury situation, we're going to put the best 11 on the field. If in moving a couple other players around to other positions to get the next best player on the field, he's not the next one in, then he's not the next one in. Most of these kids, to me, are the ones that need to understand that there is more that we are doing for them than they will ever do for us. We've all got them on our teams. By that I mean, the coaching staff is creating a safe, caring learning environment and providing consistent lessons in life skills that will transcend their football careers. They need to enjoy being a part of the team and whatever role, major or minor, that they may have. They have a role...they need to learn to cherish it. Enjoy the pre-game dinners, t-shirts and shorts, wearing jerseys on game day, pep rallies with the team, and scout team player of the the week awards. Let's face it, unlike playing time, we afford these positive aspects of our programs to every team member regardless of their ability. Some of our kids need to understand that playing time is not a right, it's a privilege. It sounds like social Darwinism but it is, the absolute best will play because they give the team the best chance for success. If we, as coaches, are put into a situation where two players of equal ability are competing for the same spot, the player that made a greater commitment to the program during the off-season will be the one who earns the spot. Bottom line, he's reliable...we can count on him. In that situation, we owe it to him. Let me make this clear, he's not entitled to it, but he did earn it. I hope this clarifies my stance on this issue. As always JMO.
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Post by coachcb on May 8, 2011 11:53:42 GMT -6
Just tell him to dial in, keep learning and being coachable, and to hit the off-season hard. Telling them to hit the off-season hard is challenging to do when a player asks what he can improve in Week 2. That doesn't do a whole lot for the remaining weeks of our regular season (we play a 9-game regular season in Michigan). Our practice schedule is tight so having the opportunity to get the team into the weight room, during practice, and still getting them home at a decent time is usually not possible for us. We're a small school so we don't two-platoon with an offense and defense. Most of our players play both ways. So organizing offensive, defensive, and special teams segments into the same practice schedule is extremely difficult from an efficiency standpoint. We've found a way to make it work but sacrifices have been made and one of them is the weight room, during the season anyway. We emphasize strength and speed throughout the off-season and open the weight room three days a week throughout the winter, spring, and summer leading up to the season. So unless this kid is lifting in a Weight Training class during the school day (of which we only have one class of around 35 each semester), it'll be tough for him to make that a focus for improvement during the season. I also believe that during very demanding seasons for our players (football in the fall, wrestling/basketball in the winter) it's very challenging for our players to get much further past a maintenance phase. I have not witnessed notable strength gains made during this season by the players in my Weight Training class. We don't really start to see major gains until the spring when our guys are in baseball or track or not playing a sport. At that point of the year, gaining strength can be their primary focus because they are in sports that, generally speaking, are not as demanding as the others stated earlier. This leads right on into the summer and then into the seaeson. A player trying to improve his strength and/or speed will need to, like you said, wait until the off-season. That doesn't do anything for the here and now during the season. This is unfortunate to know also, because, generally speaking, with the players we're talking about here, their lack of playing time is not due to a technique, chalk talk, or film viewing deficit. In my experience, these kids have an understanding of techniques/schemes and have made them instinctual but they just don't have it physically. Closing the gap of physical ability is the toughest task for these kids at this point. These kids are usually not big enough so they are getting destroyed, not fast enough so they are getting run by, and/or not strong enough so even when they are pitted against an opponent of equal size they are still losing because they are getting driven. The time to improve physically is not during the season but, instead, during the off-season as stated earlier. So now what? I'll give the player every opportunity to learn better through more reps after practice, more chalk talk, and more film but if I know his deficit is not of that nature then I'm lying to the kid. Especially if I know that those things are not going to do it. {censored} it...the kid: is a junior weighs 130, benches 135, squats 190 (not at parallel), hang cleans 125, deadlifts 250 runs a 5.7 40. This kid, in most cases, has had every opportunity to improve. He loves the actual game of football, he just doesn't love the other preparation aspects of the game. He just can't get motivated about strength, speed, and agility training. Now I won't tell the kid this, but there's a good chance he lost his spot at birth. I mean seriously. I'm not trying to sound horrible here but that's the truth. Will I work with him as often as I can? Absolutely! But it may take three guys in front of him getting hurt before I even consider him being effective and put him in a game...that's the ultimate truth. Obviously I would never tell the kid that. Even when we're in a multiple injury situation, we're going to put the best 11 on the field. If in moving a couple other players around to other positions to get the next best player on the field, he's not the next one in, then he's not the next one in. Most of these kids, to me, are the ones that need to understand that there is more that we are doing for them than they will ever do for us. We've all got them on our teams. By that I mean, the coaching staff is creating a safe, caring learning environment and providing consistent lessons in life skills that will transcend their football careers. They need to enjoy being a part of the team and whatever role, major or minor, that they may have. They have a role...they need to learn to cherish it. Enjoy the pre-game dinners, t-shirts and shorts, wearing jerseys on game day, pep rallies with the team, and scout team player of the the week awards. Let's face it, unlike playing time, we afford these positive aspects of our programs to every team member regardless of their ability. Some of our kids need to understand that playing time is not a right, it's a privilege. It sounds like social Darwinism but it is, the absolute best will play because they give the team the best chance for success. If we, as coaches, are put into a situation where two players of equal ability are competing for the same spot, the player that made a greater commitment to the program during the off-season will be the one who earns the spot. Bottom line, he's reliable...we can count on him. In that situation, we owe it to him. Let me make this clear, he's not entitled to it, but he did earn it. I hope this clarifies my stance on this issue. As always JMO. It doesn't matter what time of year we're talking about; I tell them all the same thing (assuming they're not a senior). For me, it's a no bullsh-t assessment; that is part of what it takes to get better and see more playing time. I know that it's kind of a let-down for them in the middle of a season, but it is what it is. But, that is also why I offer to stay after practice and rep things with them. They have several options RIGHT NOW, along with the off-season work. I bring up off-season training as much as possible when dealing with the kids though. They were talking about how strong and fast the basketball team that knocked them out of the divisional tournament was. I told them that living in the weight room is what it takes to get to that point. The same thing comes up during track season.
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Post by davishfc on May 8, 2011 20:17:06 GMT -6
It doesn't matter what time of year we're talking about; I tell them all the same thing (assuming they're not a senior). For me, it's a no bullsh-t assessment; that is part of what it takes to get better and see more playing time. I know that it's kind of a let-down for them in the middle of a season, but it is what it is. But, that is also why I offer to stay after practice and rep things with them. They have several options RIGHT NOW, along with the off-season work. I bring up off-season training as much as possible when dealing with the kids though. They were talking about how strong and fast the basketball team that knocked them out of the divisional tournament was. I told them that living in the weight room is what it takes to get to that point. The same thing comes up during track season. I actually emphasize the importance of working hard in the weight room all year long as well. I find myself expressing this in front of the group as a whole during the season. I do more of this emphasis on an individual basis near the start of and throughout the off-season. Although I do express the importance of working in the weight room to improve collectively as a team. However, when it comes to helping a player improve during the season, the only realistic options I can give him is getting more reps for technique and scheme, more reps for aggressiveness, more reps during conditioning, more chalk talk time, and more film time. These are the controllable factors for him at this point. Overall strength and speed development, outside of a maintenance phase, is difficult to cultivate during the season. Focus on strength and speed development usually happens during the off-season. I just personally believe the kid that approached me about getting better soon for more playing time, would be highly discouraged if the number one option I gave him was "get in the weight room." Now when the season is over, by all means, remember that kid wanted to do whatever was necessary to get better and earn more playing time. As the off-season begins, tell him that if he wants to do everything in his power so he's not in that situation again, he needs to work as hard as he possibly can in the weight room throughout the entire off-season. I don't know if there is a more frustrating feeling than understanding you want to get better but the best option is not something that's viable at that particular time. There's a reason we football coaches invest 9 months in developing our players athletic ability (strength and speed in particular). That reason is simply...it takes that much time. We can teach schemes and techniques in a lot less time.
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Post by bluedevil4 on May 8, 2011 22:34:26 GMT -6
what he can do to get more playing time? I get asked this at least once a year and sometimes its easy but what do you tell the player who is just not that good? Just tell him to dial in, keep learning and being coachable, and to hit the off-season hard. I also offer to stay after practice whenever possible; get them some more reps or watch film and hit the chalk board. I used to give this advice and cringe at the same time; especially when it was coming from kids that I didn't view as "athletic" enough. But, I coached a junior safety a few years back who was in this boat; slow, uncoordinated, weak, and just not "athletic". He was WAYY down on the depth chart as a junior but he kept up his good work habits, worked with me after practice, hit the gym like terror in the off-season and ended up starting for us the next year. And, I was working in a very good program; the competition for that spot was tough. Honestly, there can be a really fine line between a mediocre player and a GREAT one. Now, here's the tough question. How do you respond when a kid does everything he can to get better and still ends up at the bottom of the totem pole? How do you reward them? That's a thought that has kept me up at night. I stumped my varsity coach on your last point my senior year. I was always getting congrats as one of the hardest workers, stayed after practice, always first to the field, etc. Coach was telling some players to start loving the game like I did, or saying he was gonna have to start me at RB (was having a good week). I went and flat up asked him about why I was getting so much praise and attention from the coaches and not playing. He was honest and said it was just a matter of size and natural strength. (Shortest and lightest player). My input: I had a sickening feeling when I heard that, but I understood it, and I knew he had no other answer to offer. Be honest with your players in that situation. I coach middle school, so I always tell those kids to be excited for HS. You're gonna get bigger, stronger and faster. Honesty is the best policy.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 9, 2011 6:47:18 GMT -6
For years, I always gave 4x6 index cards that had their grade from the previous game. On it there were all the stats, etc... that we looked at as coaches. I always tried to point out what they did well and what they need to improve upon. I even did it for the non starters and players whe didn't see the field. They might get a DNP, but there was a comment on what they did well during the week, and what they needed to to improve upon.
I have gotten away from that, but plan on getting back to doing something like this year.
So far as the question "What do I need to do to get some PT?", I just tell them specifically WHO they are behind and what that person does better. Sometimes there is some reassurance that the kid is an underclassman behind a SR. But sometimes it is a Sr. behind an underclassman.
One of the tenets of the program is: Knowing your seat on the bus. Not everyone can be in the front and some have to ride the tire well. I had a Sr. last year who just wasn't going to get on the field. He was a decent athlete and could have helped us on ST. I told him that his role would be primarily as a scout team player. He ended up not staying on the team. I tried to talk him out of turning in his equipment, but I couldn't honestly tell him that he would see significant playing time on Fridays and Srs. can't play JV in our league.
It is just one of those things about being a coach that you have to do. It isn't easy, but in the long run you have to be honest with that kid.
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Post by davishfc on May 9, 2011 7:20:40 GMT -6
For years, I always gave 4x6 index cards that had their grade from the previous game. On it there were all the stats, etc... that we looked at as coaches. I always tried to point out what they did well and what they need to improve upon. I even did it for the non starters and players whe didn't see the field. They might get a DNP, but there was a comment on what they did well during the week, and what they needed to to improve upon. This is outstanding coachwoodall! Thanks for the idea. We'll see what we can do along these lines. I'm sure consistent updates about player progress and areas of improvement are a valuable coaching tool.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 9, 2011 8:04:26 GMT -6
Also on the card was a running stat of ST tackles, etc..... We gave a tackle award sticker for every 3 ST tackles, with a running tally of the whole season. Those kids really would politic for those ST 1/2 tackles b/c they would add up!!
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Post by coachcb on May 9, 2011 8:06:06 GMT -6
Davishfc,
I don't lay out the off-season work as the best route to more playing time (although that is what I feel). It's just another one of the 3-4 options that I give them at that point and it's never the first. I hit them with it early and often because I feel it needs to sit in the back of their mind all year long. And, I have found that it spurs some of them on during the season; they'll come in and hit the weights a few days a week.
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Post by gambler00 on May 9, 2011 11:30:18 GMT -6
One of the things we have done in our program is make special teams well special. We make a big deal out of guys on this unit. I know that this is cliche but kids in our program really do buy into special teams roles. We talk about how special teams sets the tone for all field position which is a major decider in football games. We have rewards for each unit. Yes in high school many times special teams is reserved for younger or players that cant play anywhere else but you can still motivate them to play hard in that role. Honesty is the best policy.
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Post by coachdennis on May 9, 2011 12:27:18 GMT -6
I feel badly for kids asking this question, because a lot of times they are doing so because dad made them go ask. Deep down, most kids generally know why they aren't playing. What's tough is having to hear about it from dad at home.
If they do, I always bring up the off-season. You can't sit on the couch all off-season, playing Call of Duty, and then expect to play as much as the guys who are spending that time getting better. We have a 15 year old offensive tackle in our program who has gone from zero to stud in less than two years, largely because his off-season work ethic has been incredible. This kid barely made our team two years ago, and is now a fixture as a starter. Want to get better and play more? Work as hard in the off-season as this kid has...
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