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Post by tog on May 2, 2011 20:33:38 GMT -6
if it makes sense - it makes sense from 2005 what the OP posted is one of the main reason this site was created This..
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Post by tog on May 2, 2011 20:38:17 GMT -6
I've known some major idiots that coached deep into the playoffs with D1 kids they just told to "be athletes"
now, they may be geniuses for letting the athletes take over with their natural gifts
but it funny when those same guys run into having to coach a team with some inferior players and don't know how to handle it
maybe they are smarter than me for having been at a place with better talent--maybe just luckier
i know this
I can't stand going to a clinic and hearing johnny awesome coach from the state quarterfinal team do a clinic talk and all they do is read off their stats from a powerpoint and then put on the film---"we are just blessed with excellent players"
lol
whatever
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2011 21:02:02 GMT -6
I've known some major idiots that coached deep into the playoffs with D1 kids they just told to "be athletes" now, they may be geniuses for letting the athletes take over with their natural gifts but it funny when those same guys run into having to coach a team with some inferior players and don't know how to handle it maybe they are smarter than me for having been at a place with better talent--maybe just luckier i know this I can't stand going to a clinic and hearing johnny awesome coach from the state quarterfinal team do a clinic talk and all they do is read off their stats from a powerpoint and then put on the film---"we are just blessed with excellent players" lol whatever X2 Duece
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Post by rpetrie on May 2, 2011 21:32:52 GMT -6
A coach's rep should be judged on the model he presents and the impact he has on the development of his players as goal-oriented young men. If they happen to become good players and win some games...all the better. It's about the "HOW" he teaches, motivates, develops and influences that is most important. We say it all the time on this board that it's not the X's & O's... but how you teach them techniques and general game understanding that makes the difference. Having been at both ends of the spectrum of winning/losing as a coach...if you can't recognize the bigger picture beyond the W's & L's, you shouldn't be coaching...at least at the scholastic level IMO.
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Post by julien on May 2, 2011 23:14:57 GMT -6
As far as I am concern, I DON'T CARE about the record of poster on here (as I can not go to clinics, this website is my clinic)...
I have no clue about current or past success of guys like Tog, Huey, Brophy, Deuce and a bunch of other...
What I do know is that they all have help me one way or an other in the last couple of years because they know football AND because they know HOW do teach it.
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house
Probationary Member
Posts: 8
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Post by house on May 3, 2011 2:01:36 GMT -6
A war is won more by logistics than strategy. As we all know, coaching is time management, teaching, performance management, and a whole lot more than scheme. You can only control so much of the environment and a great program is great because all the mules are pulling together. If you can, surround yourself with people that are great at what you struggle with (and then steal their good ideas). The scheme should help the player be in the right place at the right time. It is my responsibility to help the players perform to their true potential. For scheme I believe the only test I need to apply is "does this make sense?." Is it internally consistent? Does it have a chance of being successful? Is it better that what we do now? Will changing cost less in teaching time than spending that time on what we do now? I'm finally beginning to understand that being a coach is less about schemes and more about execution. I think that I learn this every year, but it still comes as a shock when I realise I wasn't right enough. It's not what the coach KNOWS, but what the player DOES. Technique is the other side of the coin to scheme and the two are inseparable. If you don't know HOW a player is supposed to do a job, you don't really know the scheme because you can't coach it. Oftentimes the difference I see on tapes is due to better better coaching. That hurts when your team looses. In the end, I like to think in terms of potential vs performance. It is possible to be a GREAT coach and still have constraints limit the entries in the win column. I suppose that is why I find the posters dealing with similar constraints as I face the most helpful. Besides, I'm not going to steal ALL of his ideas, just the GOOD ones!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2011 4:42:54 GMT -6
I also think another thing overlooked is not just motivation of players, and helping players, but a good HC is like a good employer, he attempts to motivate and help those around him which includes the coaching staff. This has been my Achilles heel over the years, and I've really had to work on it, b/c in reality being a successful coach is also being a successful manager...especially a people manager. I beleive that's where the ones that get the most out of their players/coaches begins is with the management of the ones they lead.
Duece
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Post by davishfc on May 3, 2011 7:04:15 GMT -6
Additionally, I believe it is important to know the circumstances/level in which the person coaches. Ideas/thoughts on what to do at a program that dresses out 65 kids who are jr's and sr's may not be as successful when you dress out 25 total. I couldn't agree more with this statement. I understand there are competent individuals on here regardless of record. However, circumstances and challenges are different. I learn from everyone on here, but from a program structure and practice organization perspective I tend to have more productive discussions with coaches in similar situations. First off, Michigan does not have any where close the high school football environment of Texas, Florida, California, or Ohio. So sometimes relating to coaches who coach in these states can be challenging because the attitude toward football by the administration and community is not the same. Don't get me wrong, there are communities in Michigan where football is "IT" but those are few and far between and they're the ones that are usually playing in the state championship games come Thanksgiving. We have no budget for football outside of coaching stipends for four, transportation (which may get cut here soon), game officials, and reconditioning of helmets each year. That is all that is paid for by the school in our so-called "football category of the athletic budget." The rest of our program's needs, the majority of which is equipment, is handled through fundraising. In a typical year, we have around 20 on the varsity and around 20 on the JV, give or take two at each level. We also only have myself (head coach) and three assistants. We are a small school (enrollment = 419) in a county with the 8th highest unemployment rate in Michigan, which is also a state with the 5th highest unemployment rate in the entire country. 70% of our school district's population qualifies for free or reduced lunch which equates to a community entrenched in poverty. Unlike some urban environments that may have higher free or reduced lunch percentages (upwards of 90%), we don't have kids that if we help to keep out of trouble then we may have some D1 recruits on our hands. Not the case at all here. I have had one kid in four years as head coach go on to play college football and that was at the D3 level which was an opportunity afforded to him more for his academics than his ability. Having coached only one college football player is certainly not for lack of trying on my part, I can assure you of that. We do everything in our power to inform and help our players with those opportunities. Unfortunately, our players don't have the ability to make it on with the D2 programs in the state (we've got some good ones) so they are limited to D3 for the most part, but the admissions requirements to get in to those institutions have proven too challenging for some. The ones we have that could get in academically, have just not wanted to play at the next level or have looked at the cost of attending a private institution and have cringed. I explain to them about financial aid because I attended a D3 school and got some financial aid. Being done with the game and attending bigger schools has seemed to be the route of one or two kids that I thought could've played at the next level. This is fine as long as it was for the right reasons. Being a small school, we have several two and three sport athletes which means accessing our players out of season is a huge challenge. We have two strength training classes during the school year, one each semester...no football class like some programs. Our state that does not allow spring ball, a coach is limited to 7 players that we can coach at any one time over the summer. So to be quite honest, not that there isn't validity to what some coaches post on here from a program structure and practice organization standpoint. I'm sure it's valid to someone but not to me. So it's not that your not a credible coach, it's just not everything that somebody posts on this board applies to my situation. And vice versa, I understand that not everything I post applies to other people's situations. I don't necessarily value threads on "how to properly manage an 80 player program" or "effectively utilizing an entire 70 man varsity roster" or "two platoon practice organization" or "how to best utilize my 10-man coaching staff." It's not that I'm envious or anything, that information simply does not apply to me in our situation. It may some day but not today. I would say I could read it and learn about my uncertain future but I prefer to focus on the present...the here and now. My mentality is to treat the job I have like it's the last one I'll ever have every single day I'm doing it. And with the timelines we're on as coaches, I personally, don't have time to research topics that do not directly apply to the responsibilities I currently have. So to summarize, I am a coach that listens to everything on this board from an x's & o's/technique perspective and simply evaluate, with my staff, if our players can be successful doing things that particular way. I don't look at coaches records because like blb said "there are more good football coaches than there are good football programs." I'm not going to shut a coach out who has great ideas but for some reason they haven't worked out where he's at. Now, from a program structure/practice organization perspective, I'm going to take into account whether or not a coach is in at least a somewhat similar situation. Not all programs, school districts, and communities are created equal. Using the factors, listed above I will assess whether or not an idea could be applied to our program and be effective. For example, there was a thread on the General Board entitled something like "when does your program have the weight room open." We have had an established schedule for four years now that has worked for us and allowed us to be successful each year in building our program. When we have our weight room open this summer may not matter to some of our kids that live at the edges of our 30 square mile school district with gas at over $4.00/gallon, we probably won't see them. It's unfortunate but it's the reality we face. Now some coaches, particularly the ones that have another high school within a stones throw of their own building couldn't understand this because if their kids really wanted to be there, they could walk. Different situations for different coaches. I understand that financial strain is everywhere but not to the degree that it's hitting already poverty-stricken, highly unemployed areas of this country and we're trying to coach football here. Only so many coaches on here understand what that is like. With only 4 winning seasons in the past 34 years...yeah, we define success differently around here. Despite all of that, 2011 has a chance to be a great year for us. We could have our 5 winning season in the last 35 years and possibly our 3rd post-season berth in the history of the school.
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Post by cwaltsmith on May 3, 2011 7:37:04 GMT -6
I also think another thing overlooked is not just motivation of players, and helping players, but a good HC is like a good employer, he attempts to motivate and help those around him which includes the coaching staff. This has been my Achilles heel over the years, and I've really had to work on it, b/c in reality being a successful coach is also being a successful manager...especially a people manager. I beleive that's where the ones that get the most out of their players/coaches begins is with the management of the ones they lead. Duece Duece I totally agree. I am too striving to get better in this area. I believe there is a difference in a good coach and a good x's and o's guy. I can't remember what coaches book I got it from (and it may have been on here somewhere), but I read that the word coach comes from the word stage coach.... meaning to take a person from one place to another. You can know all the x's and o's in the world and be a terrible coach. I always tell my assistants.... It isnt what you know.... it is what your kids know and do. It doesnt matter if you know the ins and outs of the 3-3 if your not running it.. Now to call plays you need to understand its principles.... anyway guess im rambling. To me you can learn how to be a good coach by reading message boards. Coaching is about relationships. You can learn more info which will help you become more knowledgable, but you got to relate to the kids. As far as the OP question. It doesnt effect me reading if the record is bad. I try to listen to what others do and see how I can relate to my situation. This board is great!!!!!
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 3, 2011 8:22:46 GMT -6
There are so many variables behind a coach's record that I stopped caring long ago. For example, my best year of coaching BY FAR ended in a 7-4 record. One of my worst years as a coach...9-1. The difference was talent. Our staff took those guys from 2-8 to 7-4 and taught them how to play the game, be a team, and be great student-athletes.
The 9-1 team was just a bunch of athletic dudes who I barely influenced outside of teaching some offensive football concepts. That 9-1 team was so talented our base defense looked like a punt rush team every play- 4-3 Sam/Will Fire EVERY STINKING PLAY. Teams couldn't beat us and our stubborn DC kept calling it regardless of coverage behind it. I was just waiting for someone to burn us...only one team did. They weren't good student-athletes, they weren't a great team, and they sure as hell weren't a pleasure to coach.
I think one of the best ways to evaluate a coach is to try to measure the passion they have for the game and for coaching. I want to hear from the guy that throws all his cards on the table and will coach his a$$ off over 3 consecutive losing seasons to finally go 6-4 with a bunch of overachievers.
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Post by davishfc on May 3, 2011 9:44:46 GMT -6
I think one of the best ways to evaluate a coach is to try to measure the passion they have for the game and for coaching. I want to hear from the guy that throws all his cards on the table and will coach his a$$ off over 3 consecutive losing seasons to finally go 6-4 with a bunch of overachievers. This is a refreshing perspective to hear. I consider our program to be successful though we don't have the record to show it. I have actually had my brief experience and record as a head coach thrown back in my face on this board for no particular reason other than philosophical differences. I've been working hard over 4 consecutive losing seasons as head coach of our program: 2007 (0-9) 2008 (1-7) 2009 (4-5) 2010 (4-5) Like many people, I strive to be great as a coach. We've defined success around our program as getting better each and every season. The emphasis has been on the process of building one day, one week, one month, one year at a time. We're looking to make a breakthrough this coming season with many overachievers. 6-4 is a realistic mark that our 2011 can accomplish. But you know what they say about potential. We'll dig in and see where we end up! Passion is difficult to measure but if it's evident long enough, success will follow. That's what I've always believed. Thanks for the reminder.
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coachbigelow
Junior Member
Coach at Southern Virginia University
Posts: 261
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Post by coachbigelow on May 3, 2011 10:40:58 GMT -6
I think also when you have had a lot of success you have to fight the feeling of knowing it all or knowing better than others. I know that is a challenge for me, in my first 4 years of coaching was part of 3 state champion teams. I have learned a lot but it doesn't mean that I know best.
So I fight the feeling that I have learned enough. You can see it on some of our staff though, coaches who think they know it all now.
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Post by tango on May 3, 2011 11:08:05 GMT -6
I know my best job ever was a 3-7 year. This is the only losing season in 16 years and I got fired. It is by far the best job coaching in my career.
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