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Post by husky44 on Apr 29, 2011 17:51:39 GMT -6
I am sure this topic has been discussed before but have not found a link so I will fire away. We are increasingly facing athletes who choose to specialize when they get to HS and this really hurts a football program that relies on numbers to be competitive. Other than making football attractive to kids, what types of things can be done to stem the tide? Has anyone found some good articles or studies that look at specialization and its impact on the athlete in a negative light and focuses on the benefits of multi-sport athletes?
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 29, 2011 19:50:01 GMT -6
I think a big thing is that every sport's coach is trying to turn his team into a 12-month a year affair.
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tackle
Sophomore Member
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Post by tackle on Apr 30, 2011 1:24:14 GMT -6
Coming from a small school it was a necessity that athletes played multiple sports. We never had the luxury of numbers of kids to specialize. The AD was good at creating an environment that made multiple sport athletes the norm. First, athletes had athletic pe. Weight program for boys and girls to train all round athletes. No coaches program was bigger than the school. Coaches were put into check if they felt they needed their kids year round.
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Post by fantom on Apr 30, 2011 6:10:33 GMT -6
OTL on ESPN had a story a couple of years ago about overuse injuries due to travel ball.
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Post by blb on Apr 30, 2011 6:29:38 GMT -6
I think a big thing is that every sport's coach is trying to turn his team into a 12-month a year affair. This is a part of the problem to be sure. Especially in sports that "cut" - the unscrupulous coach can imply that if a kid doesn't participate in the "out of season" program, he/she will not make the school team. And if you don't play for the school team, no chance of college scholarship. It takes school administrators with some intestinal fortitude to set boundaries on what coaches can do and require of kids in off-season for the good of the overall school athletic program. Especially in a state where Schools of Choice exists and Mommy and Daddy will threaten to take their junior All Star to another district (and the state aid dollars with him-her) if you're seen as running a less-than stellar program that may cost Junior shot at that scholly. |
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Post by coacha65 on Apr 30, 2011 7:12:49 GMT -6
Parents need to be educated on the prospects of all this time and money spent on specializing generally does not pan out. I have kids who are not allowed to play golf because it will mess up their baseball swing, leave school for a week to play in a soccer showcase out of state and cannot play on the basketball team, do not wrestle because they are afraid they will lose muscle for football, do not play football because they are afraid to gain wait for wrestling, etc...Too many parents have the mind set of "if I just work more on one sport I would have gotten a scholarship" or "the coached screwed me". The kids in my district tell me all the time that it's their parents, "I want to play football but my mother/father is afraid I will hurt my pitching arm (meanwhile these kids are pitching on three teams and have a pitching lesson twice a week). We also now have HS coaches telling their kids to come to their instructional camps instead of playing other sports as well, it has become an environment of exploiting the parents desires and the kids fears to
make money! I am sorry for the rant but this topic really sets me off.
True story: Junior lacrosse goalie grounded until he gains the starting spot on the lacrosse team...his parents are tired of being embarrassed in the stands and having to answer to the other parents. He is currently the third string goalie.
We need to:
1. Educate parents on the reality of scholarship money, the increase and prevention of adolescent orthopedic/overuse injuries and the social/emotional stress put on these kids.
2. Put new rules into place (and actually enforce them) regarding contact time with the athletes.
3. Create an environment that encourages the multi sport model and take the emphasis off outside teams.
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Post by fantom on Apr 30, 2011 9:06:23 GMT -6
It's a tough battle. In last year's baseball preview SI did a story on that young guy on the Braves- Haywood (I think). The story was virtually a commercial for travel ball.
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coach16
Sophomore Member
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Post by coach16 on Apr 30, 2011 20:49:47 GMT -6
The administration has to set policy against coaches telling kids that they cannot play other sports.
I think kids should be allowed to play any sport of their choice.
I really try to encourage the young kids because they never know what sport they may be good in.
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Post by thehoodie on Apr 30, 2011 23:06:14 GMT -6
I coach 3 sports so I've had less of a problem as I always encourage my football players to play basketball and vice versa.
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scottc
Sophomore Member
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Post by scottc on May 1, 2011 16:55:20 GMT -6
Allen Iverson was born to his single 15-year old mother, Ann Iverson, in Hampton, Virginia, and was given his mother's maiden name after his father Allen Broughton left her.[3] Examples for basketball and baseball players who excelled at football... "At Bethel High School, Iverson started as quarterback for the school football team,[4] and started as point guard for the school basketball team. Allen was able to lead both teams to state championships.[5]"- wikipdedia www.lostlettermen.com/top-10-mlbs-top-10-football-players/ |
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Post by fantom on May 1, 2011 17:17:51 GMT -6
Allen Iverson was born to his single 15-year old mother, Ann Iverson, in Hampton, Virginia, and was given his mother's maiden name after his father Allen Broughton left her.[3] Examples for basketball and baseball players who excelled at football... "At Bethel High School, Iverson started as quarterback for the school football team,[4] and started as point guard for the school basketball team. Allen was able to lead both teams to state championships.[5]"- wikipdedia www.lostlettermen.com/top-10-mlbs-top-10-football-players/There's never been a problem around here with football and basketball coexisting. The area's becoming a baseball hotbed, though, and that's a different story. |
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scottc
Sophomore Member
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Post by scottc on May 1, 2011 17:32:26 GMT -6
Allen Iverson was born to his single 15-year old mother, Ann Iverson, in Hampton, Virginia, and was given his mother's maiden name after his father Allen Broughton left her.[3] Examples for basketball and baseball players who excelled at football... "At Bethel High School, Iverson started as quarterback for the school football team,[4] and started as point guard for the school basketball team. Allen was able to lead both teams to state championships.[5]"- wikipdedia www.lostlettermen.com/top-10-mlbs-top-10-football-players/There's never been a problem around here with football and basketball coexisting. The area's becoming a baseball hotbed, though, and that's a different story. Click the link on the baseball players who were great in football as well. I worked at a place like that before. I went to an Indians game in Cleveland and bought a program. The majority of American born players played multiple sports in high school. I showed some of the 'specializers' this. Didnt help but got the point across. What most parents dont realize is that most MLB players are exceptional athletes who excel in all sports. They think that specialization is the key. If a kid has to specialize then they probably arent a good enough athlete to play at a level beyond high school anyway. |
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Post by fantom on May 1, 2011 17:45:04 GMT -6
There's never been a problem around here with football and basketball coexisting. The area's becoming a baseball hotbed, though, and that's a different story. Click the link on the baseball players who were great in football as well. I worked at a place like that before. I went to an Indians game in Cleveland and bought a program. The majority of American born players played multiple sports in high school. I showed some of the 'specializers' this. Didnt help but got the point across. What most parents dont realize is that most MLB players are exceptional athletes who excel in all sports. They think that specialization is the key. If a kid has to specialize then they probably arent a good enough athlete to play at a level beyond high school anyway. You don't have to convince me. This area has a number of players in MLB and few played football. When one is interviewed on the local radio they'll always talk about the fact that they all played on the same travel team. |
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scottc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by scottc on May 1, 2011 19:54:50 GMT -6
Click the link on the baseball players who were great in football as well. I worked at a place like that before. I went to an Indians game in Cleveland and bought a program. The majority of American born players played multiple sports in high school. I showed some of the 'specializers' this. Didnt help but got the point across. What most parents dont realize is that most MLB players are exceptional athletes who excel in all sports. They think that specialization is the key. If a kid has to specialize then they probably arent a good enough athlete to play at a level beyond high school anyway. You don't have to convince me. This area has a number of players in MLB and few played football. When one is interviewed on the local radio they'll always talk about the fact that they all played on the same travel team. Feel for you and know it is frustrating...my situation was the school up the road had produced a few pro players [minor league and couple made the show]. Anyway, you can see where the thinking logic goes with the parent. However, its a chicken/egg theory when it comes to the fact was it the travel ball or the God given talent to begin with that led to the players becoming MLBers. This battle and debate will rage as long as there is sports. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 1, 2011 20:14:08 GMT -6
The problem is that people are playing sports as a means to something, rather than playing sports to play sports.
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Post by coachbdud on May 1, 2011 20:21:39 GMT -6
What i try to do is not just sell them on how they can have succes in football or how much fun it is, when I see a kid who really loves another sport (usually basketball)
i try to explain to them how much football, and lifting with us will help him on the court. Ive taken kids who can just touch rim and through a wuality lifting program improved their leg strength/explosiveness enough to be able to dunk... I try to sell this to those bball kids I want being my wideouts
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Post by coacha65 on May 2, 2011 8:19:25 GMT -6
Bottom line, we are training kids to be pro athletes at 10 years old instead playing for the love of the game and enjoying their adolescence. I wonder how many of these parents put the same emphasis on education as they do sports.
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Post by pvogel on May 9, 2011 1:41:52 GMT -6
dont have the stat on me, but i saw somewhere that a majority of scholarship athletes played more than 1 sport in HS.
being athletic is always a plus. there are always skills that cross over from each sport. And youre more likely to get a good 2-3 months of lifting from a kid that was busy playing other sports than you are getting 9 months of lifting from a kid who wants to specialize. sell that. sell fun.
also a good relationship with the other coaches is always a plus.
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Post by JVD on May 9, 2011 11:59:16 GMT -6
Ask any college football coach, and I'm sure you'll get an earfull on their thoughts about "one sport athletes." Closest college coach might be a good resource. Talking with an assistant from St. Norberts he said, "If a player tells me the only played football, I say, Oh....I'm sorry...I thought you were an athlete."
Heck, as the B-ball coach too! I heard a story about Tom Izzo (Michigan State...duh) going on a rant about how he was tired of recruiting "1 sport athletes."
Also, it's been mentioned before, but having other coaches (and parents) educated on the benifits. Our Varsity B-ball coach (2nd year) told all of his players at the banquet. "If you want to earn more playing time....lift weights.....and play football."
Hopefully that will help!
JVD
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Post by coachk12 on May 11, 2011 22:56:33 GMT -6
Funny story.
We have a TE who has the prototypical frame, speed, etc. to play at the D-1 level.
We're located about 10 miles from the University of Arkansas. Guess who comes to watch the kid play BASKETBALL? Bobby Petrino.
He mentioned to us that he could get see the kid's footwork, agility, etc. better at a basketball game than he could at a football game.
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Post by realdawg on May 12, 2011 5:24:04 GMT -6
One point about combating specialization.... if as football coaches we dont want our kids to specialize in basketball or baseball, we cannot ask them to specialize in football. Often times, I hear football coaches complaining about kids that only play basketball or baseball, but then expect their football players to specialize in football. If we dont want specialization we have to be willing to let our kids play other sports too, and find a way to work around their in season schedule to get them in the weight room etc....
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Post by silkyice on May 12, 2011 7:08:54 GMT -6
Problems with specialization:
1) Injuries. There are studies that show when a kid plays the same sport year round he is more likely to get injured (overuse injuries).
2) Burnout.
3) Motivation - tied in with burnout, but how do you get excited about your 2nd round playoff baseball game when it is you 40th game of the season, you played 50 in the fall, and if you lose, you just start your summer ball where you play 80 more games?
The way we sell playing other sports:
There are two major components to how good you are in your sport:
Skill level and your Athleticism.
Even if you max out your skill level, someone can be better because he is a better athlete. Just playing one sport will not maximize your athleticism. Baseball players who play football become better athletes and tougher and that will make them better baseball players. The guy who plays baseball all year might (might) increase his skill level more. But, I really believe that isn't completely true due to the law of diminishing returns, burnout, decreased athleticism, and chance of overuse injuries. The guy who played football and basketball shows up rusty, but he is now a better athletle and mentally and physically fresh for baseball.
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Post by superpower on May 12, 2011 8:32:03 GMT -6
One point about combating specialization.... if as football coaches we dont want our kids to specialize in basketball or baseball, we cannot ask them to specialize in football. Often times, I hear football coaches complaining about kids that only play basketball or baseball, but then expect their football players to specialize in football. If we dont want specialization we have to be willing to let our kids play other sports too, and find a way to work around their in season schedule to get them in the weight room etc.... Great point, Coach. This is one of the main reasons that we don't do team camps, 7 on 7, etc. We just ask our kids to lift in the summer, and we have a camp for 4 days at our place. I miss the days of kids being kids and not having adults scheduling/competing for their time year round. |
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Post by fantom on May 12, 2011 8:49:36 GMT -6
One point about combating specialization.... if as football coaches we dont want our kids to specialize in basketball or baseball, we cannot ask them to specialize in football. Often times, I hear football coaches complaining about kids that only play basketball or baseball, but then expect their football players to specialize in football. If we dont want specialization we have to be willing to let our kids play other sports too, and find a way to work around their in season schedule to get them in the weight room etc.... Great point, Coach. This is one of the main reasons that we don't do team camps, 7 on 7, etc. We just ask our kids to lift in the summer, and we have a camp for 4 days at our place. I miss the days of kids being kids and not having adults scheduling/competing for their time year round. Not to mention having time for yourself. It doesn't have to be a 24/7/365 grind. |
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Post by groundchuck on May 12, 2011 9:19:18 GMT -6
The best play two and sometimes three sports. Be an athlete.
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