juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200 
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Post by juice10 on Apr 26, 2011 11:57:05 GMT -6
I was wondering if this is happening all over or just in my school. As coaches, we seem to always have those few that just can't seem to get the job done in the classroom no matter how much we try. The last few years, I have had an extremely difficult time keeping student/athletes grades above where they need to be to become eligible. This year is no different, but is much more extreme. As of right now with 6 weeks left in the quarter, I have approximately 40% of my kids ineligible. We have tried contacting moms and dads, sitting down with athletes, study halls before school and the grade thing isn't becoming better.
Is it something of the times? Is it parenting? Is it kids now? Is it laziness? All of the above?
Is this something that is happening in your district?
Are there tactics that you as coaches have tried to help curb this cancerous epidemic? Your suggestions/criticisms are welcome because I am at my wits end trying to cure this situation.
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 26, 2011 14:02:32 GMT -6
Just a thought, but you may want to seek out Dave Potter for his CAL program - Character, Academics and Leadership. He's run it for years in the Durham NC youth program with tremendous success. He's the new HC after 2 years as OC of a start up charter HS program, so he might have some adjustments to it based on HS.
And it doesn't always work. You really can't help those who refuse to be helped. But at least you'll have tried...
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celtic
Freshmen Member
Posts: 86
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Post by celtic on Apr 26, 2011 14:13:52 GMT -6
we've had this issue. we're starting to turn the corner a bit. i hope. our entire program lost only 1 jv player to grades last season.
in season and out of season are equally important. we have study hall prior to practice in the fall. we monitor it. kids are more likely to have energy and focus before practice than after. plus if practice runs a little late or you need to watch film after, your kids should have a real good start on their homework so keeping them a little late isn't the end of the world.
out of season we stress it in everything we do. we meet weekly individually with the guys who are struggling. we award helmet decals for good grades. we stress that they come late to lifting if they have makeup work to do. we follow up with teachers. we've found the direct contact with the teachers is more helpful than contacting parents sometimes.
basically it started to turn the corner when our kids started caring more about the football program. they work very hard year round now to be better players. they refuse to piss it away b/c they can't make the grade. most good teachers will work with kids who want to work at it. but they've gotta make an effort. we've also cut guys loose who can't make the commitment to the classroom. if they refuse to put the effort in during the school day, they don't deserve the privelage of being involved in our program.
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 26, 2011 14:42:57 GMT -6
It is an issue everywhere... kids have too much "entertainment" at the tip of their fingers and they don't want to learn how to do what is "boring" and study to become educated. They think everything is owed to them.
The school I just got hired at had about 15 kids that were lost last year to grades and I came in with about 2 weeks left in the 3rd quarter. We spent 2 weeks getting the weightroom setup and my "better make grades or else speech" about 2-3 times for those first couple of weeks. We did maxes and speed testing the last week of the quarter and I posted a "depth chart" as of NOW outside the weightroom based on those maxes and speed testing. Next to the depth chart was a column called "NOT ON THE LIST", which listed every player with an "F" on their 3rd quarter report card was on that list.
Had about 15 teachers email me and ask what I did to make every football player that was a pain in their butt to come in and behave and ask what they could do to get their grades up. Make it an emphasis and cut a couple kids loose and it may motivate them. Just what I have tried and haven't had to worry about sitting anyone important yet (QB has a 3.95 and best athletes are eligible right now).
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Apr 26, 2011 15:30:46 GMT -6
kids are easily distracted by doing NOTHING - football is a tough sport that requires WORK and commitment...
Why do schoolwork to be eligible to play a sport that requires tons of lifting, running, and practice...
I could just go skate... DUDE! Or I could go play with my Iphone/Ipad or DS or PSP or 360 or PS3 or Wii (no not the Wii, it makes me move too much) or myself...
We need to sell the sport nowadays...
I hate that part of FB
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Post by norcaldiaz on Apr 26, 2011 21:01:37 GMT -6
We have an athletic period so the kids that don't play other sports we are usually on year round and they for the most part get it together or quit the program (usually the former which is good).
Our biggest headaches always come from our guys who go to other sports, particularly TRACK where they do not have to do grade checks and the coach keeps them on the team (but not to compete), even if they become ineligible.
Usually those guys just chase the girls in spandex around the track all afternoon and their grades go to $hit. Those girls are tough for us to compete with...
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Post by tango on Apr 26, 2011 21:10:04 GMT -6
I have never lost a kid to grades in 15 years but will lose at least two this year. Can't get them to come to school. Losing a few to baseball.
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Post by John Knight on Apr 27, 2011 5:14:54 GMT -6
We(our school) fixed the won't come to school part. VLA virtual learning academy, I swear they never come to school, do the work on the computer and are eligible. I am not sure I will make it to retirement.
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Post by coachjd on Apr 27, 2011 5:25:28 GMT -6
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Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2011 7:58:27 GMT -6
Grades are what is killing our program right now. And, it's bad... Last fall, nearly half of the boys in the school were ineligible; they either had an "F" or were below a 2.0 GPA the spring before. I figured it was just a matter of developing interest in the football program; give them a reason to be eligible. But, I had a rude awakening around basketball season this year..
Basketball is king in this school; everything revolves around the sport including some of our winter breaks.. But, 2nd quarter ended halfway through the season; 5 varsity players were ineligible to finish the year. And, we're a small school (110 kids) so 5 athletes is a huge number for a sport.
And, honestly, there isn't much I can do that the school hasn't already instituted. Mandatory study halls, tutoring, academic/behavioral contracts (etc); none of it has had an impact. I contacted the parents of players that are ineligible as of right now and it had mixed results. A few of the kids kicked it into gear and the rest are p-ssed off at me because their folks didn't know they were failing.
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 27, 2011 8:06:51 GMT -6
Sounds to me like a school climate problem. If that many kids are failing maybe something else is wrong.
Why are kids failing in the school? I know it's easy to blame the kids, but maybe the teachers in the building are part of the problem. Unfortunately, as the football coach, there is only so much of this you can address, but I would talk to an administrator about fixing the problem. Nearly half of the boys in the school ineligible for sports? That does not sound like a school that is educating it's students.
This isn't to say nothing is the students fault. Kids are ultimately responsible for the decisions they make and the grades they earn. But if my school were failing that many students I'd wonder what was going on and I sure as hell wouldn't send my kid there.
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Post by John Knight on Apr 27, 2011 8:11:47 GMT -6
Yeah, the teachers probably expect the kids to actually turn in work on time and study for tests. What are they thinking.
If kids are failing it is the teacher's fault, we all know that!
Many schools with higher than state min eligibility requirements (for extracurricular) have this problem. He didn't say they were all failing just not getting higher than the 2.00 rewuired by the BOE policy.
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coach16
Sophomore Member
Posts: 126
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Post by coach16 on Apr 27, 2011 8:36:47 GMT -6
I believe that most places have this problem to some degree.
We have grade recovery and credit recovery at our school .
These are just methods in which a student can complete assignments online to make up failing grades or missing credits.
The students that need this will be pulled out of PE classes or electives to do this work.
We also offer this at Saturday school or at home online.
The kids still must be accountable for getting assignments done or they will still fail.
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 27, 2011 8:44:19 GMT -6
Yeah, the teachers probably expect the kids to actually turn in work on time and study for tests. What are they thinking. If kids are failing it is the teacher's fault, we all know that! Many schools with higher than state min eligibility requirements (for extracurricular) have this problem. He didn't say they were all failing just not getting higher than the 2.00 rewuired by the BOE policy. Did you miss where I said "Kids are ultimately responsible..."?? My point was that if 1/2 the kids are ineligible that is a problem that would concern me with the entire school. Why? Why are so many kids failing? It's like saying, "Well the kids come into the weight room, but they just aren't getting any stronger." Would you blame the kids or would you take a look at your system? If you want to blame the kids, fine. I'm just saying I'd look into the big picture as to what's happening in the school. It's worth a look, otherwise you're just an angry dude making excuses. |
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Post by fantom on Apr 27, 2011 8:53:37 GMT -6
Everybody who's taught for a while knows that classes (Class of 2011, etc.) have distinctive personalities. A few weeks ago the paper published the Honor Rolls of each HS in the city. At our school our freshman class of about 400 had a total of about 30 kids on either the All As or A-B Honor Roll. Same teachers, same courses as other years. Worse results. Not surprisingly we've never had a class that had more attitude and eligibility issues as this group.
I wouldn't call it a trend. It's more like a cycle.
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 27, 2011 8:57:49 GMT -6
I'm sorry, but unless you are going to a Private "we guarantee if you graduate from this school you will get to choose from Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc..." School, then there is NO EXCUSE for having an F in high school. If you are in class and even attempt on a regular basis, you can get a C. If you are in PE/Art/Drama/Weights then it is an entirely participitory grade. Should be an A.
By my math, you will have 4-5 academic classes where if you are trying you can get C's and between 3-4 participitory classes where you should get an A. That is a 2.8-3.0 GPA without really doing much except for being in class and attempting.
That is what is so frustrating to me about the educational system these days. Parents want their kids to get easy A's and still get perfect scores on their ACT/SAT. Meanwhile, their kid sleeps 1/2 the time and tries to spit game to the females for the other 1/2. Teachers can only maximize a students ability at a level that the student is willing to put in the work. My coach always used to tell me...
"Just remember that you can't make chicken salad out of chicken $h!t"
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Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2011 9:12:02 GMT -6
Sounds to me like a school climate problem. If that many kids are failing maybe something else is wrong. Why are kids failing in the school? I know it's easy to blame the kids, but maybe the teachers in the building are part of the problem. Unfortunately, as the football coach, there is only so much of this you can address, but I would talk to an administrator about fixing the problem. Nearly half of the boys in the school ineligible for sports? That does not sound like a school that is educating it's students. This isn't to say nothing is the students fault. Kids are ultimately responsible for the decisions they make and the grades they earn. But if my school were failing that many students I'd wonder what was going on and I sure as hell wouldn't send my kid there. Well, there's a couple of factors: 1. I coach/teach in an extremely impoverished area (one of the worst in the NATION). Education simply isn't valued and it's very difficult to get the community/parents behind you. Plus, you just don't know what the kids are going home to. 2. We're very isolated and the kids are bussed in and out. So, they get to ride a bus for a total of an hour each day on top of the normal school day. This puts a real strain on the kids. 3. I do have an issue with some of the teachers in the building. Assigning the kids three typed essays in a week when most don't have a computer or printer at home is ludicrous. I teach math and I have to make sure that I give the kids adequate time in class to do the assignments because they don't have calculators and I don't have enough to check out to them. And, they need a scientific calculator for the classes. BUT, with that being said, my grade book still reads like binary code 00100... 4. We have a very transient population. Many of our kids transfer from schools that are even more worse off than us (scary) and they are really far behind. Most of them are learning disabled or worse (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome..) and we don't have a SPED program. |
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Post by John Knight on Apr 27, 2011 9:13:19 GMT -6
I have seen a lot of kids in my days as a school teacher and many of them are ineligible because they don't come to school. Our list is usually over half failure due to attendance.
I blame the parents for that.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2011 9:48:12 GMT -6
I have seen a lot of kids in my days as a school teacher and many of them are ineligible because they don't come to school. Our list is usually over half failure due to attendance. I blame the parents for that. We have a serious problem with that as well. Unfortunately the school perpetuates it with all kinds of bullsh-t school sponsored activities. I had two girls who were in my class 3 days in three weeks because they were visiting various colleges. Both of them have already been accepted to colleges and started planning to attend them. They admitted to as much; they just wanted to get out of school. We have lost nearly a quarter of the academic days this year to this kind of crap. Trips to Seattle and New York, museum field trips, "cultural education/art" trips.. So, what do you do when half of the class is gone. You move on and half of the class fights through the material (if they turn it in) and fail. You come up with "projects" and don't get through the material. I fell into the second category and I am kicking myself for it now; we are wayy behind in some of my classes. |
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Post by fantom on Apr 27, 2011 10:09:04 GMT -6
I have seen a lot of kids in my days as a school teacher and many of them are ineligible because they don't come to school. Our list is usually over half failure due to attendance. I blame the parents for that. Absolutely right. Our district has a strict attendance policy. Too many unexcused absences and you fail. Period. There are recovery/makeup programs but the policy is black and white. Yet we have a kid with D.1 talent who may not graduate because he can't get to school in time for his first two classes. That's an F and an F in core classes. We also have a freshman who flunked a first semester class after passing both marking periods. He skipped the exam and the policy is that skipping the final is an automatic failure for the semester. Everybody knows that but he still skipped. Neither case sounds like a school problem to me. |
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by juice10 on Apr 27, 2011 10:44:09 GMT -6
I appreciate all of your input. Many of you have hit the nail with teachers and students both have a responsibility. I know one of our biggest issues right now is that the district has changed our grading policy and now kids can't just skate by with just turning in work. Our policy has weighted tests as 75% of are grades and only 25% to daily homework.
We are also from an extremely low SES community (close to 75% of our school is on free and reduced lunch) so for many grades are not a priority, college or tech school isn't a priority. Keep the ideas coming as I appreciate all of your input.
Thanks for the info and thanks to jd for putting up a website. We have tried the Coaching to Change Lives and I liked it, but I don't feel like it is as effective as it has been in the past. We are looking into implementing the 7 army values this year:
LDRSHIP
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 27, 2011 10:50:42 GMT -6
we don't have a SPED program. Isn't that illegal? |
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Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2011 11:12:54 GMT -6
we don't have a SPED program. Isn't that illegal? Not when you work in a private school... That's another one of our issues; the school can't figure out it's identity. We need to decide whether we truly are an "academy/college prep school" or take on a public school model. We have teachers that set the bar at the "academy" level and it just kills our kids. BUT, on the flip side, you have teachers that set the bar wayy too low and it is just as detrimental. They get their butts worked off in one class while sliding through another. We're really between the two right now and not in a good way... It's hard to set that bar super high for kids when you don't have a remedial programs to catch the kids up. It's really turning into a nightmare. I have a general math class that's designed to prepare the kids for Pre-Algebra and Algebra. BUT, there's a SNAFU; the Pre-Algebra/Algebra teacher as decided we're an "academy". He writes his own curriculum; Pre-Algebra is basically Honors Algebra and Algebra is Honors Algebra 2. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 27, 2011 11:18:27 GMT -6
I love Ontario's standardized curriculum... A teacher can be a little nutty and raise the bar or go beyond, but there's a limit and at least a base commonality. Do you guys have that anywhere?
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Post by John Knight on Apr 27, 2011 11:17:45 GMT -6
Is it fair,( i know fair is a place with funnel cakes, goat shows and carni rides)for schools to have a 2.00 GPA requirement and play against teams that have state min?
The state says just have to PASS 5 classes, you could have all D-s and still pass 5
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Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2011 11:21:45 GMT -6
I love Ontario's standardized curriculum... A teacher can be a little nutty and raise the bar or go beyond, but there's a limit and at least a base commonality. Do you guys have that anywhere? Hell no and that is what is slowly killing our education system. We have standardized testing but there is no national standardized curriculum. We either need to sh-t or get off of the pot with it. Either standardized all of it or none of it. |
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Post by fantom on Apr 27, 2011 11:54:24 GMT -6
I love Ontario's standardized curriculum... A teacher can be a little nutty and raise the bar or go beyond, but there's a limit and at least a base commonality. Do you guys have that anywhere? We do have a standard curriculum- Standards of Learning (SOLs)-and standardized SOL tests at the end of the year. It was needed badly and are an improvement but there are issues. Everything that you do is based on prepping for the tests, which are used to evaluate the school's performance. A lot of teachers have issues with the tests. My biggest problem is the timing. They give the tests in mid-May and we get out of school in mid-June. Originally, they gave tests on paper and they needed that time to get them all graded (they got boxed up and were sent to Richmond to be graded). Now the test is given on the computer and the results are printed out in minutes. In effect, we've shortened the school year by a month. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 27, 2011 14:09:15 GMT -6
I'm finally understanding why private school is so popular there. Nobody goes to private school here except for fancypants'
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 27, 2011 14:13:31 GMT -6
Not when you work in a private school... That's another one of our issues; the school can't figure out it's identity. We need to decide whether we truly are an "academy/college prep school" or take on a public school model. We have teachers that set the bar at the "academy" level and it just kills our kids. BUT, on the flip side, you have teachers that set the bar wayy too low and it is just as detrimental. They get their butts worked off in one class while sliding through another. We're really between the two right now and not in a good way... It's hard to set that bar super high for kids when you don't have a remedial programs to catch the kids up. It's really turning into a nightmare. I have a general math class that's designed to prepare the kids for Pre-Algebra and Algebra. BUT, there's a SNAFU; the Pre-Algebra/Algebra teacher as decided we're an "academy". He writes his own curriculum; Pre-Algebra is basically Honors Algebra and Algebra is Honors Algebra 2. and that's what I'm talking about in examining what's happening in the school. Sounds like a rough situation and a frustrating one. Another question I would have would be how do your kids come to you? If you are an academy/prep school shouldn't there be some family background or entrance requirement that helps make sure the student are capable of succeeding? |
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Apr 27, 2011 14:45:42 GMT -6
Every kid comes with 2 major problems - MOM and DAD...
Hard to blame a kid when the home is jacked up...
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