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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 22, 2011 16:18:37 GMT -6
I heard a college guy at a clinic say "if you want to make yourself feel good about what kind of coach you are, go to an NFL practice". Heard the same thing..Only it was a Patriot league coach saying that with regards to the Big Ten. So take that for what its worth.....
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Post by blb on Apr 22, 2011 16:31:16 GMT -6
I heard a college guy at a clinic say "if you want to make yourself feel good about what kind of coach you are, go to an NFL practice". Heard the same thing..Only it was a Patriot league coach saying that with regards to the Big Ten. So take that for what its worth..... And so you agree that just having a "big time" job doesn't mean one got it on merit, that one is a good coach?
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 22, 2011 17:07:34 GMT -6
Heard the same thing..Only it was a Patriot league coach saying that with regards to the Big Ten. So take that for what its worth..... And so you agree that just having a "big time" job doesn't mean one got it on merit, that one is a good coach? Obviously. I have stated before that the only accurate use of the word "better" when discussing differing levels of football (or sports for that matter) applies to the player's abilities. That said, I would make a general statement that assistant coaches at the collegiate and professional levels as a whole are vastly more professional, more dedicated, more knowledgeable, and more prepared than assistant coaches at lower levels. This is somewhat of a "duh" statement because of the differences (again, see there is that word) in the job. Asst. High school, jr high, and youth coaches are being paid to do other things, while collegiate and professional coaches are not. The most important thing to recognize with regards to all of this is the DIFFERENCES in the jobs before we through out words and phrases such as "better" or "more deserving" As far as getting a job "on merit", exactly what criteria are we using here? Just because the subject of the original post might not do a defensive backs presentation to the level of say a Nick Rapone doesn't mean that Nick Rapone has more "merit" for a particular job than he does. If I were the head football coach at the-- EDIT--West Virginia University, and I had the opportunity to bring a coach who was President of his College Student Body, has a Masters in Policy from Harvards Kennedy school and a Law Degree from Harvard Law, has worked as an Aide for Senator Lieberman and Lt. Governor Bill Ratliff, was able to wrangle an NFL training camp intern spot and turn that into an NFL asst coaching position...I would say he has "merit" So how exactly are you defining merit blb?
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Post by blb on Apr 22, 2011 17:22:27 GMT -6
Actually, it's West Virginia University (not University of...).
I could give anecdotal evidence based on what a former player of ours who played in The League, plus a friend whom I got his first coaching job and later coached in a Super Bowl, have told me about their experiences-observations, but I don't think you would consider them.
Appears we're done here.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 22, 2011 17:43:22 GMT -6
Actually, it's West Virginia University (not University of...). And I was basically asking how you define merit. Correction made. Thanks for the heads up on that one. As far as Merit, again, it depends on the job at hand. In this case, college football assistant coach at WVU, going on resume' only I would say he is obviously intelligent, and has been trained to identify and solve problems. He is an intelligent young black coach that obviously has a history of making the right choices, making the most of his college education, used his ambition and self sacrifice to create a job opportunity for himself, and has spent the past 3 seasons working in the NFL. Does he have "merit" to be a BCS level Head Coach? Absolutely not. Do I think he has merit to be an assistant coach on a collegiate staff, and would his resume, evidence of character and intellect be an asset to the program? You bet I do, and you bet it would. How do YOU define Merit coach? And to what would this evidence pertain? I don't think anyone in this thread is stating that Organization in which one coaches (NCAA, NAIA, HIGH SCHOOL, NFL) is an indication of being "better". Now I would say that some coaches would have experiences, skills and qualities that WOULD MAKE them better at some job tasks than others..and these job tasks are different depending on where one coaches. But lets be clear, I certainly don't subscribe to the "He is in the NFL.. so he must be a better coach than this High School Coach". I just think it is disappointing to see coaches..mostly high school coaches here... so freely take shots at other coaches when they have ZERO experience of that realm.
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Post by pmeisel on Apr 23, 2011 6:03:44 GMT -6
Coaching football is in some ways like engineering, accounting, and law -- there are different skill sets and specialties within it. Criminal lawyers don't do probate, and vice versa.
In youth, middle school, and HS ball you have to teach technique. In college ball you still have to coach technique, and you have to recruit. Enough has already been said in many posts about the difference in the detail of schemes and playcalling at various levels.
I recall a conversation with my boss, many years ago now. He played at Florida under Woodruff and Graves. He told me about Ray Graves working with a defensive line recruit who was a great physical specimen but had either very limited football experience or very limited high school coaching.
The conversation was about making the most of the material you have. My boss told me -- that kid wasn't very smart but Coach Graves taught him something every day.
When I listen to coaches, hell, when I listen to anybody, you listen for what you can learn, what you can use, what you didn't know, and what challenges what you thought you already knew. Sometimes you listen for an hour and profit for 30 seconds. Other times you learn something every minute.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 23, 2011 10:53:06 GMT -6
Coaching football is in some ways like engineering, accounting, and law -- there are different skill sets and specialties within it. Criminal lawyers don't do probate, and vice versa. . That is an excellent analogy. Although both are accountants, you wouldn't say that the guy making 3million as managing partner of a New York office of Ernst and Young is "better" than Joe who put his shingle out and has run a nice shop for the last 20 years on the basis of hierarchal stature or income. Both have more accounting knowledge than a non accountant, but each has expertise and experience in different areas of accounting. You could say one is "better" if they are always on time, accurate, deliver the finished goods when promised etc, regardless of which role they were in.
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coach16
Sophomore Member
Posts: 126
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Post by coach16 on Apr 23, 2011 16:48:46 GMT -6
I feel like any coaching job comes with it's pluses and negatives.
Some one made a statement about schools having much more talent than others and that anyone can win there.
I think all schools have unique situations that a coach has to figure out to get his team going.
Some places may have spoiled rich kids and parents that harass coaches about playing time.
Some places may have kids that are poor and stay in crime ridden neighborhoods.
Each one of these present its different challenges
The coach has to find a way to get them to put out maximum effort regardless of their talent level or shortcomings
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 25, 2011 9:06:54 GMT -6
I feel like any coaching job comes with it's pluses and negatives. Some one made a statement about schools having much more talent than others and that anyone can win there. I think all schools have unique situations that a coach has to figure out to get his team going. Some places may have spoiled rich kids and parents that harass coaches about playing time. Some places may have kids that are poor and stay in crime ridden neighborhoods. Each one of these present its different challenges The coach has to find a way to get them to put out maximum effort regardless of their talent level or shortcomings All good points. Not really in the vein of what is in this thread, which is more about the coaching profession and different jobs, levels, but your last statement rings true across all levels of football
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Post by gdoggwr on May 6, 2011 12:03:00 GMT -6
I attended a clinic last off-season and heard an absolutely awful speaker. He was an NFL guy, but had just completed his first season as an assistant position coach (previously some sort of manager/assistant/intern thing). Did not play college ball. I don't usually judge based on experience one way or the other, but I feel it's relevant as background. He opened his presentation by stating that at every level football is a passing game. EVERY level, pee wee, middle school, high school to college and pro. Football is always a passing game. His words, not mine. The rest of his presentation, which covered his coaching style was filled with soundbites and cliche's. He reminds every new corner he gets that "You aint Deion." Following this, he pointed out the neccessity of some 7 man sled that has pivoting pads they use and about 5 drills they use it for. Teaching DB's is a futile exercise without it. He was extremely charasmatic and well spoken during the presentation. No big deal, you hear a few poor speakers every year. Until I was browsing around Footballscoop and saw he had just been hired as a Special Teams coordinator at a BCS University. -No playing experience -No coaching experience -Limited understanding of the game But, he had great connections (guys like Marvin Lewis and Ray Edwards) and is probably going to be a great recruiter. He seemed highly intellegent and I have no doubt he'll be a good coach one day. But there are 1,000s of more qualified coaches at the high school level that will never get a shot. It's just a strange profession at times. To make a statement about the OP. If it is Daron Roberts your talking about, it sounds like he got just as much of a shot as any high school coach. How many of us high school coaches started their football careers as a volunteer? Or are willing to add what is probably full time hours onto their teaching day to volunteer for an NFL team for their shot? A shot that for most never makes it past the volunteer status. So lets see, he went from texas to mass. and got a law degree from harvard {censored} law, then decided that he wanted to coach football and packed his bags and moved to KC to volunteer with the Chiefs. Moved again two years to detroit to be an AC, then got a D1 gig (which involved moving 100's of miles again). I would say he worked his A$$ off to 'get' his shot. How many HS guys on here are willing to pack up and move halfway across the country to volunteer, with no guarantee of a gig afterwards. I've got a wife and almost two kids (due in June). I'll keep my highschool gig ...
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