lj
Freshmen Member
Posts: 91
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Post by lj on Apr 8, 2011 9:20:07 GMT -6
I've been reading where there have been a lot of programs that have gone to early morning practices. They have said that they love getting done early so that they can have the rest of the day to cut up film. They also say that educationally, its been good for the players because they don't have that practice hanging over there heads as well as having study table earlier. From a coaching standpoint, I think this would be great. Is this possible to do in high school? Are there any "hard" facts out there about it being sound educationally?
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 8, 2011 9:30:34 GMT -6
What exactly would an early morning practice look like?
If kids need to be in class by 8:00 how do you get a practice in?
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Post by blb on Apr 8, 2011 9:47:20 GMT -6
If kids need to be in class by 8:00 how do you get a practice in? I think he was referring to Pre-Season (before school starts) practices. I saw couple studies that showed optimum time for teenagers to begin school was around 9 am because of sleep patterns, brain activity, energy levels, Circadian rhythms or whatever people like that study. (Which BTW it's so stupid many HS begin around 7:30 pm because of transportation). One school I was at we had real problem with kids having to work so we tried to accommodate them by practicing from 8 am to Noon (only) one year. I hated it. I felt rushed to get ready, we were all dragging at the start and took at least a half hour to get going, balls were wet and I got Swamp Foot from the morning dew. And even though we took a break in the middle it still felt like one long practice, so we were dragging at the end, too. We will never start practice before 9 am again. |
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Post by coachplaa on Apr 8, 2011 10:07:02 GMT -6
We have talked about doing it too, during the season. Having a 6am practice, once a week, getting done at 7:30, and then they are done for the day. Easier said than done, but it MIGHT be able to be done at the Varsity level. I'd be curious to know if anyone has done it.
At the University of Oregon clinic last weekend, we learned that in-season, Thursday is a "no run" day. There is supposedly some literature that says it is better to go full-pads the day before a game, and better to do very little 48 hours before a game- to get maximum performance on game day. It intrigued us to say the least.
I am trying to find that study, because that idea coupled with an early AM practice on a Wednesday morning (for a friday game); along with a film session afterschool on Wednesday, might be a smarter (but much less traditional) way of doing things.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 11:41:29 GMT -6
I don't have personal experience with it, but the staff my brother used to coach on used to do their Monday film and walk through before school. The coaches then met after school for more gameplan work and/or get ready for the JV game. They did it one week out of necessity--don't remember the reason why it was necessary--and they actually liked it and did it the rest of the season. That was just that one practice though; their Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday practices were after school.
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Post by stone65 on Apr 8, 2011 12:03:20 GMT -6
I would love if our school went to this. I think your first period class would have to be athletics.
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Post by blb on Apr 8, 2011 12:08:51 GMT -6
Wait until you have player(s) falling asleep in class and parents and teachers start b!tching about it, blaming it on before-school practice.
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Post by fantom on Apr 8, 2011 12:22:06 GMT -6
We did it once out of necessity. There was an overlap in the schedule and summer school was still going on when we started pre-season camp so we practiced at 5:30 AM. We don't have lights. Doing tackling stations in the dark ranks with the weirdest things I've ever done. Personally, I'm not an early morning guy so it was the most miserable two weeks of my life.
This was funny: We had a curfew in town. They didn't arrest but if they caught a kid under 17 out between 11 PM and 7 AM they took them home to their parents. So a cop catches a kid on his bike at 5 AM. The kid is swearing that he's going to football practice and the cop is thinking, "Yeah. Right". They get the kid home and Mom jumps all over the cop. "He's supposed to be at practice. You better take him to practice and he BETTER NOT have to do up-downs".
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 8, 2011 12:26:56 GMT -6
Pre-season, I have no opinion.
During the season - I have some reservations. In college basketball we used to practice at 6am every day. Playing games at 7pm was weird, it was a time of day we weren't used to being all that active. We were out of sorts all day. I don't know if it made a difference - we got it from John Chaney who used to do it at Temple, and that was back when they were really good. Didn't seem to bother them.
So I don't know - is there anything to the notion that if you condition your body to physically peak every day at 6am, what happens when you play a game at 7pm?
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Apr 8, 2011 13:59:55 GMT -6
One of the better small-school programs in Minnesota has early morning practices all season Monday-Thursday (I think it's 5:45 to 7:45). They have done this for many years. The reason why they originally did it because many of their athletes had to be home for the grain harvest. If they had typical after-school practice, their best athletes would not play. Their coach was very common on the local clinic circuit (he retired after the 2009 season) and he talked about this regularly. He claimed that they had contemplated discontinuing this format since grain harvests have become more mechanized and commercial. His players and community were completely against it. It's a source of pride for their program that they do something that no one is willing to do. Seemed to have worked.....a 76-game win streak from 2003-2008 and 6 out of the past 7 state championships.
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Post by rpetrie on Apr 8, 2011 14:33:58 GMT -6
I would have to say it is completely dependent on what your school schedule allows...but not sure if I'd want to do morning practices, unless they are walk-through type workouts. We start HS @ 7:00AM (1st period late bell rings @ 7:05AM)... and we are done at 1:50PM. No way I'm getting kids to practice @ 4:30AM. We do have to use early AM practices during pre-season as we have a 10-5 rule that prohibits us from practicing between those hours before Labor Day. The only thing it does is helps our kids get prepared for the early moring school days because we've been going for 2-3 weeks already at that time.
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Post by peacock1915 on Apr 8, 2011 15:50:46 GMT -6
I think Prattville in AL does part of their practice in the morning. The kids have first block athletics instead of fourth and so they get them their early do special teams and like inside, and then come back after school and finish up.
We talked about doing it, but just logistically it seemed hard to do during the school year. How do you feed them breakfast, have time for them to shower before class, and those sort of things.
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Post by thehoodie on Apr 8, 2011 18:03:30 GMT -6
The team that won the AA Provincial Championship up here in BC, Canada last year goes 6:30-8am M and W in season. When asked why they do it, their HC responded much like coachjohnsonmn said, he said it has become a tradition with their program and that it instills a sense of pride. The HC was formerly a US Marine so that might have something to do with why he runs it that way.
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Post by jml on Apr 8, 2011 21:09:34 GMT -6
Coach if you find this study please share it with the rest of us. I would love to read it. We have talked about doing it too, during the season. Having a 6am practice, once a week, getting done at 7:30, and then they are done for the day. Easier said than done, but it MIGHT be able to be done at the Varsity level. I'd be curious to know if anyone has done it. At the University of Oregon clinic last weekend, we learned that in-season, Thursday is a "no run" day. There is supposedly some literature that says it is better to go full-pads the day before a game, and better to do very little 48 hours before a game- to get maximum performance on game day. It intrigued us to say the least. I am trying to find that study, because that idea coupled with an early AM practice on a Wednesday morning (for a friday game); along with a film session afterschool on Wednesday, might be a smarter (but much less traditional) way of doing things. |
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Post by bellottibold on Apr 9, 2011 15:37:07 GMT -6
You might be able to find some background on Oregon's unorthodox gameweek preparation if you can find some conference/presentation material from head S&C coach Jim Radcliffe...
That said I believe Oregon implemented the "no-run" Thursday and full-go Friday routine after learning new information about peak performance and recovery from members of the US Olympic training community. Since hiring Vin Lanana to run the track program at Oregon and completing modernization renovations on Hayward field in Eugene, Oregon has become the go-to host for the Olympic Trials.
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Post by coachsticks on Apr 9, 2011 17:40:06 GMT -6
Our school day is 7:25-2:55. Our activity bus is wheels churning on pavement at approx. 5:35. We have played with the idea of meeting before school with the kids, but think about it from the players POV. I played at the college level, I think I love the game as much as anyone. If you tell me at 15 years old, be at school at 5:30 because we are having a full-scale football practice, what am I going to say to you? Probably that I will now be playing basketball.
As much as we want to win and prepare the kids, you have to remember this is only high school. I don't want kids having to wake up at 4:45 to make it to practice. We will prepare them the best we can in the given time and hope its the best.
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Post by pmeisel on Apr 10, 2011 5:54:18 GMT -6
Lots of track and cross country teams do individual or small group running in the early am, then still practice after school.
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Post by airmale on Apr 10, 2011 6:23:57 GMT -6
Impossible to practice that early here. We have too many community coaches that have to work. They shoot over right after work. I f we went early we would be without half of our staff.
And before you say "hire more for in the building!" Tell that to administration and downtown with state tests and budget cuts.
Thinking about getting a job at home depot.
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 10, 2011 9:34:52 GMT -6
We have gone to a 5:30 AM - 7:00 AM morning weightlifting session every day in the offseason, and M-W during the season. We have done this for a couple of reasons:
1) I have never had every football player in my "football weightlifting class". There is always about 10-15 who have an AP class that is only offered that period, or some other conflict. 5:30 AM doesn't conflict with anything.
2) The only excuse for not being to a 5:30 AM workout is that you don't want to get out of bed. It eliminates the "doctor's appt, dentist appt, babysitting, basketball practice, baseball practice, track practice, or the 1000 other excuses you get for an afternoon workout.
3) It gives the kids a chance to rest inbetween lifting and practice. If you do one immediately followed by the other, then one of the 2 will suffer. They will lift hard but practice soft, or visa versa. Giving them that 7 hour break inbetween allows them to recover and go again for practice.
4) In our program we have a MANDATORY 45 MINUTE STUDY HALL immediately after school. School ends at 2:25 and we take roll in the study hall at 2:30. Each grade level will be doing a core subject each day and we rotate through as the week progresses. The study hall counts as football practice, so missing it results in sitting out the same amount of game time as if they missed your entire football practice.
5) By doing lifting from 5:30 AM - 7:00 AM all of my off-campus coaches can be there. By doing a 45 minute mandatory study hall, then giving the players time to dress and get to the field, I give my off-campus coaches more time after school to make it in to practice. It is too hard to get those off-campus guys work schedules to let them be at the school by 2:30, so with this setup, they have until about 3:45 if they are going to be in the group meeting at the beginning of practice, or 4:00 if they are not.
I got my 1st HC job in January and we have had 65+ every day for the offseason workouts, with at least 85 being there at least once. The kids love having the afternoons for themselves or for track/basketball practice etc.. I have them for 90 minutes from 5:30 AM to 7:00 AM and I'm done with them. It is only 90 minutes 5 days a week.
During the season, it is a much greater commitment, but there is nothing before or after school that interferes during the season. I believe that it is that off-season lack of commitment that hurts teams in the long run. If I can get them to come to weights & conditioning in the offseason, then I am ahead of the rest of the teams we play who are allowing basketball and baseball players to be excused from lifting because of practices after school.
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tdtom
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
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Post by tdtom on Apr 11, 2011 9:42:51 GMT -6
We do 6:15-8:00 in the off season. It is not bad because we have the afternoon off. But some of us have to coach spring sports to make ends meet. Fo us it can be a grind.
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