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Post by swsaints52 on Apr 6, 2011 12:39:05 GMT -6
I got a scenario for you guys to spin on. I got a kid who gives, in my opinion, 75% on the field and in the weightroom. He lifts hard some days and some he doesn't do anything productive. He will be a senior next year on the football team. I have talked to him told him that there is no telling how good he would be if he gave 100% and even the others in his weightroom class told him there is not teling how good you will be if you wroked hard every day. The thing is his 75%-80% effort still puts him being one of the best lifters I got and and he is one of the fastest players on the team.
So my question is how do you handle a player like that? His performance on the field, even though it is not maximum effort for him, is going to be good enough to start on either side of the ball. Do you play him and allow the other kids to see that maximum effort is not needed for some players to see the field or do you not play him and put someone in his spot that is not got the abilities and will not perform as well?
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Post by olcoach53 on Apr 6, 2011 13:00:39 GMT -6
Find the players who are giving 100% and play them during the summer. Let this guy work for his minutes if he really wants. I said something about this in another thread too but no player is greater than the team I dont care HOW good he is. I have benched kids because they skipped practices or werent working hard enough and some responded while some folded. The ones who folded were never part of the big picture anyways and we still won without them.
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Post by fantom on Apr 6, 2011 13:35:19 GMT -6
I got a scenario for you guys to spin on. I got a kid who gives, in my opinion, 75% on the field and in the weightroom. He lifts hard some days and some he doesn't do anything productive. He will be a senior next year on the football team. I have talked to him told him that there is no telling how good he would be if he gave 100% and even the others in his weightroom class told him there is not teling how good you will be if you wroked hard every day. The thing is his 75%-80% effort still puts him being one of the best lifters I got and and he is one of the fastest players on the team. So my question is how do you handle a player like that? His performance on the field, even though it is not maximum effort for him, is going to be good enough to start on either side of the ball. Do you play him and allow the other kids to see that maximum effort is not needed for some players to see the field or do you not play him and put someone in his spot that is not got the abilities and will not perform as well? What reason do you have for not playing him? Your opinion that he's not working hard? If he's the best player he plays. |
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Post by blb on Apr 6, 2011 13:42:11 GMT -6
Whenever he gives less than his best effort, either you or his position coach point it out to him in a constructive rather than confrontational way.
Some of them it takes longer for the light bulb to come on than others.
But would you seriously bench him because some days he doesn't lift as hard as you would like? Talk about cutting off your nose.
If he's the best player, he plays.
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 6, 2011 14:01:33 GMT -6
School size makes a difference too.
I've been big (1500 kids) and small (350 kids) and it's different.
In the small school it's harder to cut that kid loose. In the larger school you may not have kids as good as him, but it's more likely that they are pretty close so you'll be just fine in the long run.
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Post by 42falcon on Apr 6, 2011 14:01:40 GMT -6
Honestly send him to a camp where top D1 prospects will b. He needs to get dominated and realize he is a God at home but in the outside world he is a cockroach.
Then talk with him about how good he could be.
His potential means nothing when he sees he doesn't need to try VS his current peer group.
Teaching or motivating that 100% motor with these type of kids is the hardest
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Post by blb on Apr 6, 2011 14:08:33 GMT -6
Not to poo-poo your suggestion 42 but if OP is having tough time getting kid to work hard at home, how receptive will he be to going to a big-boy camp?
If he did though it definitely could be a beneficial experience for reasons you stated.
Hard to get kids who are used to being best in class or even whole community to see they're just a grease spot in the pan of Life.
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Post by 42falcon on Apr 6, 2011 14:50:30 GMT -6
blb I agree I can see how it might be hard but I guess I'm thinking back to the kid we had like this.
He would seriously go about 80% but when he wanted to be and when he was seriously challanged would dominate others. We struggled so hard to get him to realize that if he tried he could have been very good. Keep in mind we have very few athletes that make it to D1 schools from our area. This kid was heavily recruited based on physical qualities unfortunately when the game tape showed up the scouts stopped calling. We asked why? The response was because he doesn't try when he isn't getting the ball and even when he does get the ball there are times he doesn't try. We know this because when he try's he is very good.
If he played like that we would offer him.
He ended up at UofC (not a bad thing to stay in Canada) but even now he was 1 of 2 players invited to the shrine bowl. He is ranked #2 by central scouting here, and there is even a little NFL buz. Finally he has gotten it it took a few years into his University career to get it.
All I am saying is somehow this kid needs to see that they are not the "best" something to push them.
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Post by thehoodie on Apr 6, 2011 18:44:06 GMT -6
I would focus on winning the player over 1 rep at a time, 1 set at a time, 1 day at a time.
You won't change his attitude overnight, but if the player sees that you're putting so much time and effort into helping them improve every single day, they will reciprocate over time.
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Post by swsaints52 on Apr 6, 2011 20:25:36 GMT -6
Thanks guys for all your responses...personally I don't think the kid realizes how good he really is. Is he a big time D1 recruit no but could he play next level...maybe. He by no means is a serious kid, very laid back so i think he just doesn't know how to commit himself. This week for instance in weight room. He dressed out Monday, did okay, did not yesterday which is aa once a week to once every other week routine for him, and I asked him in a sarcastic way "taking the day off" Yeah I guess was his response. Today He comes in and Cleans 255 which was 30 lbs more then his last max a few weeks ago. Even the kids told him in class today he would be a MANSTER is he worked hard everyday. Don't get me wrong when you got a 5'10 170 lb kid cleaning 255 and squatting in the high 300's that is good and I am glad especally since he is a legit 4.7 guy. I just know if he worked out hard everyday he could be even better.
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Post by swsaints52 on Apr 6, 2011 20:26:06 GMT -6
Thanks guys for all your responses...personally I don't think the kid realizes how good he really is. Is he a big time D1 recruit no but could he play next level...maybe. He by no means is a serious kid, very laid back so i think he just doesn't know how to commit himself. This week for instance in weight room. He dressed out Monday, did okay, did not yesterday which is aa once a week to once every other week routine for him, and I asked him in a sarcastic way "taking the day off" Yeah I guess was his response. Today He comes in and Cleans 255 which was 30 lbs more then his last max a few weeks ago. Even the kids told him in class today he would be a MANSTER is he worked hard everyday. Don't get me wrong when you got a 5'10 170 lb kid cleaning 255 and squatting in the high 300's that is good and I am glad especally since he is a legit 4.7 guy. I just know if he worked out hard everyday he could be even better.
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Post by macdiiddy on Apr 6, 2011 20:41:44 GMT -6
I have a kid that is the same way. He is now going into his senior year, and thank God, it looks like it is finnaly starting to click with him and he has been working and leading pretty well. It is frustrating and will get old but all you can really do is stay in his ear.
Little things, you see it, call him out. Sounds like you have been doing that because the other kids on the team have picked it up too. But just constantly telling him, that is not good enough, then eventually giving a, "that is what were looking for, everytime" is the only thing i can suggest
Also, this was not for punishment reason, but when we would pull the kid to get some fresh legs in, he did get quite livid, then when came to me and wanted to make a deal so he wouldnt get pulled, and i told him if i never have to correct his effort in practice, then I won't pull him...did wonders really
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Post by peacock1915 on Apr 6, 2011 21:12:29 GMT -6
Why do you allow him to come down if he isn't gonna work out? If you miss a work for anything that is not school related you run a mile where we are at. We check role at the beginning and end each day, you aren't there either time you get a mile.
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dania
Junior Member
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Post by dania on Apr 6, 2011 21:22:23 GMT -6
just my two cents,
You cant preach hard work until friday night. If that is what you preaching to your team. Giving the team your all, then turn around and reward the kid(s) who only put out 80 pct of the time...If he is doing it, in the weight room, he is doing on the practice field and on friday night...by playing him friday....You have lost your team and your words mean nothing. Just my two cents. We have that problem here.
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Post by fishon37 on Apr 6, 2011 22:15:23 GMT -6
do you have other kids in the program giving 75% but not worried about them because they are not a "stud"....it might be the atmosphere...
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coachood
Sophomore Member
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. -Vince Lombardi
Posts: 173
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Post by coachood on Apr 7, 2011 10:38:28 GMT -6
I got a scenario for you guys to spin on. I got a kid who gives, in my opinion, 75% on the field and in the weightroom. He lifts hard some days and some he doesn't do anything productive. He will be a senior next year on the football team. I have talked to him told him that there is no telling how good he would be if he gave 100% and even the others in his weightroom class told him there is not teling how good you will be if you wroked hard every day. The thing is his 75%-80% effort still puts him being one of the best lifters I got and and he is one of the fastest players on the team. So my question is how do you handle a player like that? His performance on the field, even though it is not maximum effort for him, is going to be good enough to start on either side of the ball. Do you play him and allow the other kids to see that maximum effort is not needed for some players to see the field or do you not play him and put someone in his spot that is not got the abilities and will not perform as well? What reason do you have for not playing him? Your opinion that he's not working hard? If he's the best player he plays. If he's slacking, then he's not the best player. He simply has the potential to be the best. |
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Post by blb on Apr 7, 2011 10:42:53 GMT -6
What reason do you have for not playing him? Your opinion that he's not working hard? If he's the best player he plays. If he's slacking, then he's not the best player. He simply has the potential to be the best. OP said even at 75-80% he's "good enough to start on either side of the ball." That means he's their best player at two positions at least. |
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Post by tango on Apr 7, 2011 11:16:33 GMT -6
IMO not working out and not working at 100% are different problems. If he did not lift I would be done with him. Working to a 100% everyday is not going to happen. Some kids 100% is different than others. What is his work capacity? We had a kid 2 years ago that was a stud and I would be ready to kill him at the end of each day because of his work ethic. On my drive home I would always reflect on practice and realize that he worked harder than anyone else on the team. He started at FS and QB and his mannerism were not what you wanted from a QB (not and attitude). He is now at a D1 school and their coaches love him because the pressure is off at FS.
If your kid is a Sr. it maybe to late for him. I have a kid that is a So. that sounds like him. We kicked him off the JV this year and he begged to get back on the team. He would have started at Wr on the varsity at the end of the season. I let him lift and watch film with us and be the ball boy but he could not ride the bus or eat with the team. He still has days where his best effort is not given but it is better. He is the third best skill player in his class and will never catch the other two and he does not know how to handle that. The other two kill themselves in the weight room and running and he will never be as strong as them and they give him the business all the time so he tends to give in sometimes and get mad and shut down. I really think he is very insecure and has a fear of a failing. Finding the reason that he is not giving his best is very important IMO. Sorry for the long post.
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Post by drewdawg265 on Apr 7, 2011 15:55:48 GMT -6
This is how I handle kids like this during the season. If I see a loaf during practice or games I take him out. When he comes to the sideline I ask him if he is all right? I say that he wasn't going full speed so I thought he was hurting. I tell him to let me know when he is ready to go in and when he says he is ready. I say something like well the guy I put in for you is doing really well so I am going to keep him in until he shows me otherwise. I have found that playing time and competition is the number one motivator. Most guys that dog it hate me for awhile but once they realize that they will not play or practice until they give full effort they step up. Practice time dictates playing time in my book so the guy that got the number one reps will be the number one guy on game night.
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Post by sweep26 on Apr 7, 2011 16:21:12 GMT -6
Pay heed to the saying: "What you tolerate, you encourage."
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bighit65
Junior Member
Make a statement without saying a word.
Posts: 397
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Post by bighit65 on Apr 7, 2011 17:52:34 GMT -6
I think that I heard that Nick Saban said this. "if you are not coaching it you are allowing it."
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cujo
Sophomore Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cujo on Apr 8, 2011 15:53:44 GMT -6
I think everyone one of you are right. There is no one way to handle this. The way I would handle it may blow up in my face while the way you handle would work. But there is one thing, am I making this kid better in life. Am I telling him that 75% will work in the real world. Am I telling my kids that I will tolerate less than your best because you are talented. I have decided for the rest of my career that that is the question I have to answer. I have a kid who doesn't always give his best, and I told him you will not play. Your kids see that he does not always try. And I explain to him THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOTBALL. I am scared that if I do not teach you that now, then life will teach you, and she is much more unforgiving than me. I am scared that if I tolerate this from you then I did not teach you how to be a man. It would be my fault that you did not learn this.
All your answers are good, mine is not the right one, it is just one thought. I know almost everyone on this board is here for the same reason
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