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Post by coachbeene on Mar 24, 2011 14:10:53 GMT -6
How many of you had the chance to get into college coaching, but decided to go the HS route?
I currently am a SA for a D1 school. My roomate is a GA here as well. I spend less hours in the office because I am taking 15 hrs of business courses. He often gets in between 10-12 everynight.
But then again I like woking with the high level of talent, the fast paced practices, the higher level of intensity and details, and being able to recruit players to fit your system instead of having to adapt your system with the hand you are dealt.
Don't get me wrong I love football as much as anyone on here, but the hours are scaring me a little bit. I also like to go camping, mtn biking, and am looking to get married in the next year or so and want to still be able to do those things.
Just curious to know how many of you had the opportunity and decided to go the HS route and what was your reasoning and have you ever regretted it?
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Post by blb on Mar 24, 2011 14:21:43 GMT -6
Belhaven U. is DI?
Besides the hours you will be on the road, have to move more often, generally have less security, and unless you are at the FBS/BCS level, make less money coaching in college than HS.
In HS you have to teach. In college you have to recruit.
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Post by Coach Vint on Mar 24, 2011 14:36:38 GMT -6
I spent eight years at the high school level, then 4 years at the college level. I am now back at the high school level. The time commitment is not much different if you are at a good program. The difference really is how much time you spend on the road. If you are willing to be away from your family for three weeks in December and May, and every weekend in January through signing day, and you will work for a pittance, then college coaching is worth a shot.
At the small college level you often will have to teach. I taught 6 to 9 hours each semester at one school. At another our coaches all taught 3 hours in the fall and six hours in the spring.
Find a place you will be happy and start there. Make your wife a part of the decision as you will need her support.
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Post by Coach JR on Mar 24, 2011 15:32:25 GMT -6
Belhaven with a football team still cracks me up. That's not a shot at Belhaven or you, just foreign to me. And when did they turn in to a university? Brings back some great memories!
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Post by Chris Clement on Mar 24, 2011 17:20:01 GMT -6
On average, expect HS students to be somewhat less mature, and somewhat stupider (in all senses). But, they also don't have the capacity to get into as much serious trouble, for example, you can't get a DUI with no driver's license, no car and limited access to alcohol. Some will maybe manage, but it's much rarer. Also, HS parents can be idiots, in college there's generally a little detachment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2011 18:06:43 GMT -6
In this day and age of job cuts and firing coaches, a young teacher/coach at the high school level is probably going to have to do some moving around too. Probably still more certainty than a college coach, because a college coach will move multiple times throughout his whole career but. for different reasons, that instability is becoming part of a high school coaches career too.
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Post by cocoach on Mar 24, 2011 18:44:37 GMT -6
Reflect on what your values are and whats important to you and your wife. And based on what you two think fits those ideals best start heading down that path. Best of luck of coach!!
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Post by coachbeene on Mar 24, 2011 18:57:17 GMT -6
Belhaven U. is DI? Besides the hours you will be on the road, have to move more often, generally have less security, and unless you are at the FBS/BCS level, make less money coaching in college than HS. In HS you have to teach. In college you have to recruit. Sorry haven't been on in a while... no longer at BU |
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Post by coachbeene on Mar 24, 2011 19:11:33 GMT -6
Thanks for the input
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Post by cocoach on Mar 24, 2011 20:20:40 GMT -6
S. Miss to the top?
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Post by coachbeene on Mar 24, 2011 21:49:13 GMT -6
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dania
Junior Member
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Post by dania on Mar 24, 2011 23:15:37 GMT -6
How many of you had the chance to get into college coaching, but decided to go the HS route? I currently am a SA for a D1 school. My roomate is a GA here as well. I spend less hours in the office because I am taking 15 hrs of business courses. He often gets in between 10-12 everynight. But then again I like woking with the high level of talent, the fast paced practices, the higher level of intensity and details, and being able to recruit players to fit your system instead of having to adapt your system with the hand you are dealt. Don't get me wrong I love football as much as anyone on here, but the hours are scaring me a little bit. I also like to go camping, mtn biking, and am looking to get married in the next year or so and want to still be able to do those things. Just curious to know how many of you had the opportunity and decided to go the HS route and what was your reasoning and have you ever regretted it? I havent yet had the chance, but i would do it in a heart beat for the right job. There are plenty of programs, especially in hs, where you can show august through october, nothing more, and get the varsity stipen. The higher quality of program you particpate in, the harder you will work. As all the others have said, you have to decide where coaching is on your ladder of importance. You have and you will earn everything in life. |
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Post by drewdawg265 on Mar 25, 2011 7:25:48 GMT -6
My income is very important to me so getting into college coaching would only work in a few circumstances. I could not imagine taking a pay cut at this stage of my life so the only route I could go would be as a d1 assistant which is pretty unlikely. I am beginning to think the lifestyle of a pe teacher-head football coach in high school might be better for me than most college jobs anyway. I have no shortage of time to work on as much football as I want along with having time to enjoy with family and friends.
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 25, 2011 8:36:02 GMT -6
I've had the opportunity to coach at both levels and the time you have to put in at the college level is borderline rediculous, but it has to be done. College is a huge committment.
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Post by coachdubyah on Mar 25, 2011 9:00:18 GMT -6
I am in the College Level right now (Division III). The money is not much. Have to work part of the day teaching at a Middle School to make ends meet. We have a very good program now and it truly is the College Atmosphere on gameday which is awesome. The daily hours don't bother me because I enjoy it, but it does beat you down.
I just miss High School mainly because:
1) Call me crazy but, I like helping to develop the kids' fundamentals from the ground up. I like having the kid when he is a freshman and seeing him progress and get better when he is a senior. Yes you do that as a college coach, but for the most part when you get them they have a lot of bad habits that were taught to them in high school. When they are leaving the 8th grade they really dont have any bad habits. (HOWEVER, COLLEGE FRESHMEN AND HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMEN WILL STILL P!SS YOU OFF!)
2) There is actually a little off time high school. I love laying around during Christmas watching bowl games. Havent been able to do that much in the last 4 years...Summertime for a high school coach is fun to me. You get to work with your kids at 7on7's and have a little contact with them to teach them on the summer workout days. Dont have that in college.
3) I LOVE TEACHING AND COACHING...not Big on the hours spent recruiting. Some guys enjoy that part, I dont.
4) There is just something about Friday Nights. Saturdays are great, but being at school on Friday knowing there is a game that night is something that I love.
So right now I am just waiting around for the right situation. I will still be coaching at the College Level next year, but after that I'll be looking to make a move back to High School.
That to me is the difference.
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Post by coachdubyah on Mar 29, 2011 8:12:30 GMT -6
Some notes that I have taken when brainstorming and talking to other College Coaches.
College coaches are fighting for their jobs everyday. You slip up and give the powers that be any leverage, you are looking for a new job. Heard of some guys living off of food stamps and going bankrupt. Last I heard, the former OC at Miami (Nix) is teaching Middle School Math and coaching track and football in Michigan.
High school coaches need to worry more about turning in lesson plans, getting stuff done in the classroom, and faculty meetings. You can be the best coach in the nation, but if the administration doesnt like your classroom, you will be looking for a new job. I always hear about some guys talking about "at that high school you get 2 off periods". But, I can promise you no matter what state you are in, that is about to be a thing of the past (and yes that is for you Texas guys as well). I can count on 1 hand the amount of public schools in Louisiana where the Head Coaches that only teach 1 classroom class and the rest of the HC's are in the classroom for half a day.
Most college coaches are coaching in college because they dont want to deal with the classroom stuff. Most high school guys come back to high school because they dont like the time away. It's really funny how each side always wants what the other has. Some High school guys think that college coaching is just sitting around all day doing football stuff and most of it is, but you better not have a day where you "just dont feel like it". Some of the most paranoid people I have ever met are the Division 1 college coaches. Most are pretty good guys, but they are just weird to be around because they dont want to screw up.
So in short, Division 1 life is not the life for me.
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coach11
Sophomore Member
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Post by coach11 on Mar 29, 2011 19:28:36 GMT -6
I am currently at a solid D2 school and left a good HS program to come here this semester.
Here is what I have learned:
Be prepared to work long hours in season and offseason.
Be able to recruit, recruit, recruit.
When the HC says jump, you say how high.
Work for not much money, but be grateful for what you have because many of the kids you coach will have less than you do at home.
Be prepared to sleep/live in your office. (I currently am)
Learn more football than you can imagine!
I have been here 3 months now and yes things are different than the high school I was at, but I love the college job I have now. I work for a great HC (who knows lots of people), get to coach my own position, recruit my own area, and talk ball with other coaches all day long. Of course with every job there are ups and downs, but if you are not willing to come to work and with a smile on your face for not much money, then you need to find something else to do with your life. There are many guys who would give anything to be doing what you are doing coachbeene, so do not take your "status" for granted. You are getting more experience in a year than some coaches do in a lifetime. But are you willing to continue on that path?
When I was teaching last year, I would teach from 8-2:30, practice from 3:00-6:00 everyday. That's 10 hours a day. Plus, Saturday and Sunday workdays. That's still quite a few hours. This being said, you still have to ask yourself, "Is this something I want to do?"
CoachDubYah has hit the nail on the head. There are things about Friday night that you just can't explain. I do miss teaching and being around the kids, the community, faculty, Friday night atmosphere, etc. CoachDubYah summed it up perfectly in what he said. Not much more that I can add to that.
Being a coaches son, I am fortunate that I have been able to be around the game since birth, I played small college ball, so I have lucky that I know quite a bit about the game already, but the things that I have learned just this semester have been invaluable. Yes of course the X's and O's, but especially about practice organization, DSV, staff communication, and time management is something that I have really got a taste of this semester. Everyday is a new challenge and an opportunity to learn something.
Best of luck to you Beene
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Post by waltkus72 on Mar 29, 2011 21:04:26 GMT -6
Coach11 so did you finish your playing career at a small d3 school and then go back to your Alum HS? Because that is something I'm looking at when my playing career is over. But I was also thinking that take the opportunity and jump into college right outta college and GA. But did you find after coaching in HS you didn't have to assume all the unattractive jobs as a GA?
I have a great coach right now I'm playing under and I can't even imagine all the guys he knows since he played d1. Thanks for any advice/guidance.
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knash
Sophomore Member
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Post by knash on Mar 29, 2011 21:15:58 GMT -6
I have never coached college ball, but i worked with a guy that was a retired college coach. His resume was literally 11 pages long due to all the places he had been. He worked at all levels (Division 1 to Division 3). This guy has connections in college all over the place....so I could have been a GA for one of his connections. But he talked me out of it. He said he doesn't even know his two daughters because he was never home. During season he was always watching film, out of season always on the road recruiting. Not a life for me....but that my 2 cents.
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coach11
Sophomore Member
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Post by coach11 on Mar 29, 2011 22:33:11 GMT -6
Coach11 so did you finish your playing career at a small d3 school and then go back to your Alum HS? Because that is something I'm looking at when my playing career is over. But I was also thinking that take the opportunity and jump into college right outta college and GA. But did you find after coaching in HS you didn't have to assume all the unattractive jobs as a GA? I have a great coach right now I'm playing under and I can't even imagine all the guys he knows since he played d1. Thanks for any advice/guidance. I played at a D2 school and then taught one fall semester at a high school (not my alma mater). IMO, take a college GA job right off the bat if you have the opportunity and for some reason that College GA job on a resume looks really good. Make those connections! If you do a good job for your HC, then I promise he will help you out any way he can. Just by recruiting, I have made tons of calls and shook many hands and hope that if I need a job one day there will be one with the connections I made. This sounds like a personal thread, but I am humble enough to know that I am lucky and also blessed to have landed a college job. For some guys, college is not the place to be. If you are wanting to be a college GA, you better be committed, pick up the phone whenever the HC calls, and being willing to pick up a kid at the airport, film breakdown, the list goes on and on. |
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Post by coachbeene on Mar 30, 2011 9:14:29 GMT -6
I am currently at a solid D2 school and left a good HS program to come here this semester. Here is what I have learned: Be prepared to work long hours in season and offseason. Be able to recruit, recruit, recruit. When the HC says jump, you say how high. Work for not much money, but be grateful for what you have because many of the kids you coach will have less than you do at home. Be prepared to sleep/live in your office. (I currently am) Learn more football than you can imagine! I have been here 3 months now and yes things are different than the high school I was at, but I love the college job I have now. I work for a great HC (who knows lots of people), get to coach my own position, recruit my own area, and talk ball with other coaches all day long. Of course with every job there are ups and downs, but if you are not willing to come to work and with a smile on your face for not much money, then you need to find something else to do with your life. There are many guys who would give anything to be doing what you are doing coachbeene, so do not take your "status" for granted. You are getting more experience in a year than some coaches do in a lifetime. But are you willing to continue on that path? When I was teaching last year, I would teach from 8-2:30, practice from 3:00-6:00 everyday. That's 10 hours a day. Plus, Saturday and Sunday workdays. That's still quite a few hours. This being said, you still have to ask yourself, "Is this something I want to do?" CoachDubYah has hit the nail on the head. There are things about Friday night that you just can't explain. I do miss teaching and being around the kids, the community, faculty, Friday night atmosphere, etc. CoachDubYah summed it up perfectly in what he said. Not much more that I can add to that. Being a coaches son, I am fortunate that I have been able to be around the game since birth, I played small college ball, so I have lucky that I know quite a bit about the game already, but the things that I have learned just this semester have been invaluable. Yes of course the X's and O's, but especially about practice organization, DSV, staff communication, and time management is something that I have really got a taste of this semester. Everyday is a new challenge and an opportunity to learn something. Best of luck to you Beene You're right I am learning alot more than I ever imagined I would, and I certainly am trying to make sure I'm not taking anything for granted. I have learned more in the half semester I've been here than I did from all my playing years and time at Belhaven. Thanks for the input I appreciate the input everyone is putting in. It's helping me weigh the pros and cons. Exactly what I was looking for |
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Post by coachbeene on Mar 30, 2011 9:27:09 GMT -6
I have never coached college ball, but i worked with a guy that was a retired college coach. His resume was literally 11 pages long due to all the places he had been. He worked at all levels (Division 1 to Division 3). This guy has connections in college all over the place....so I could have been a GA for one of his connections. But he talked me out of it. He said he doesn't even know his two daughters because he was never home. During season he was always watching film, out of season always on the road recruiting. Not a life for me....but that my 2 cents. This is exactly what I worry about. I know some coaches have made it work such as Lou Holtz, Dungy and some others. Not saying they didn't work long hours, but they found time. But it depends on who you work for. I know my brother my sister and myself benefited greatly from having a good relationship with my dad. One day when I have kids I hope to be able to influence them like my dad did me. I believe it should be Faith, then family/friends, then football. And I know most ppl would say they agree with that, but there's a difference in saying it, and living it. I know pretty much all coaches will say family comes first, but can your family see that? |
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Post by mattharris75 on Apr 1, 2011 8:19:06 GMT -6
Belhaven with a football team still cracks me up. That's not a shot at Belhaven or you, just foreign to me. And when did they turn in to a university? Brings back some great memories! Did you go to Belhaven? (I was on the first team there back in 98) They changed the name from BC to BU either one or two years ago, don't really know why. |
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dania
Junior Member
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Post by dania on Apr 1, 2011 22:11:18 GMT -6
I have never coached college ball, but i worked with a guy that was a retired college coach. His resume was literally 11 pages long due to all the places he had been. He worked at all levels (Division 1 to Division 3). This guy has connections in college all over the place....so I could have been a GA for one of his connections. But he talked me out of it. He said he doesn't even know his two daughters because he was never home. During season he was always watching film, out of season always on the road recruiting. Not a life for me....but that my 2 cents. This is exactly what I worry about. I know some coaches have made it work such as Lou Holtz, Dungy and some others. Not saying they didn't work long hours, but they found time. But it depends on who you work for. I know my brother my sister and myself benefited greatly from having a good relationship with my dad. One day when I have kids I hope to be able to influence them like my dad did me. I believe it should be Faith, then family/friends, then football. And I know most ppl would say they agree with that, but there's a difference in saying it, and living it. I know pretty much all coaches will say family comes first, but can your family see that? My dad is a huge influence on me. My dad traveled all the time for work never home but on week ends...and sometimes not even then. But his job always took a backseat to me and my 3 siblings. Whether it was a foot in my ass, a belt to the backside, a hug, advice, chat, or covering for me. NEVER. You can be home every day for dinner and absent from your kids lives. AND you can be chasing your dreams and have a great influence on your kids and be active in their lives. Every time you open your mouth either to or in front of your kids you are influencing them. Positively and negatively Every action you take, you are influencing your kids positively and negatively. when you work long hours and tell your kids your busy, your influencing them positively and negatively. There are reasons I got the education, career and THEN GIRLS. YOUNG football coaches, that is real important. |
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 2, 2011 6:13:35 GMT -6
With so many teachers staring RIFs in the face I'm not so certain it is any less stable in college for a young coach. It all comes down to aspirations and personal preference. If you want to try college do so now because it will only get harder to justify the minimal monetary benefits the older you get.
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Post by blb on Apr 2, 2011 6:41:05 GMT -6
With so many teachers staring RIFs in the face I'm not so certain it is any less stable in college for a young coach. What are "RIFs"? |
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Post by rpetrie on Apr 2, 2011 7:00:24 GMT -6
cuts, pink slips...let go for budgetary reasons. I don't remember what the actual letters represent, but basically what a large number of teachers are facing today.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2011 7:13:09 GMT -6
Reduction In Force
To the original poster--I was in the situation you described (in the college track--chose to leave). For me, I just became "bored" with football. Was not interested in it enough to occupy 100 hours a week inseason, and 40-50 out of season. It wasn't necessarily the hours, it was that I was bored for the hours.
I also didn't want to life a life where in my late 30's/early 40's with a family I was travelling across the country every couple of years for a <$40K job.
Regrets?? No, but that is because coaching and football has developed more into a hobby than a driving passion. My little "satellite" of coaches have had a mixed bag of success.
-One is currently the Head of College Scouting for the Patriots. One is DL coach in the NFL.
-One has taken his family (wife and 2 kids) to NINE schools since 1992...and I feel confident in saying that in none of those situations was he making a good deal of money. Add to that the fact that he was working for both private and state schools (and in 8 different states) and I am not sure how the retirement account is looking now that he is in his 40's.
-One former 1AA HC was fired because an asst was found guilty of academic fraud. He kind of toiled around a bit..but was recently hired as an NFL coach's "assistant to the Head coach"
-One--whose father was an NFL and CFL coach and who is close to the Polian family (Colts) just moved across country for a job making less than I do as a PE teacher.
-Two have had solid "careers" as college coaches: one spending the last 17 years coaching in Louisiana, but at two lower tiered Div 1 schools, and a div 1aa school and the other spending about 18 years at only 3 different 1AA schools (4 of those years as a head coach)
Three left the profession for business pursuits early in the careers.
One retired / was encouraged to retire from his HC job after winning the conference championship and is in fundraising for the university.
One was unemployed last year, and has not found a coaching job yet for the upcoming season either after over 15 years 1AA experience, including 8 as a defensive coordinator.
Several who were school teachers but coaching "part time" at the college level decided to just coach HS ball instead. One is/was an assistant for a coach who posts often on this board.
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 2, 2011 8:48:43 GMT -6
Belhaven with a football team still cracks me up. That's not a shot at Belhaven or you, just foreign to me. And when did they turn in to a university? Brings back some great memories! Did you go to Belhaven? (I was on the first team there back in 98) They changed the name from BC to BU either one or two years ago, don't really know why. Yes, I was there for the 83-84 school year. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Apr 2, 2011 13:42:52 GMT -6
Having coached both college and HS for over 10 years each..I can tell you the BEST thing about college football is that EVERYONE is committed to winning and WORKING hard..what ever it takes..not so in HS .I have to work and relate to people that are justthere to punch a clock..work their 7 hrs and go home....somewhat frustrating...
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