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Post by fballcoachg on Mar 11, 2011 22:39:45 GMT -6
I know some people say never but when is the emotional investment no longer worth it? We have dealt with kids involved with gangs, drugs, fights, minor crimes, authority issues, etc. and we have stuck with most of them and worked hard to help THEM (and if we didn't, we probably wouldn't have much of a team so maybe part of it is for us as well). Hpwever, these past few days or so a situation has come to light with a student and a very serious crime, violent and repulsive in nature that I can't with good conscience pass off as being a youth mistake. Do you give up on him? Obviously he will not be in school like the rest of those we have dealt with but do you visit him in jail and try to be a semblance of consistency and support or wipe your hands? Just curious where your line in the sand is.
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Post by lochness on Mar 12, 2011 7:46:42 GMT -6
You "give up" on a kid when you have done everything within reason and given him all the tools he needs to better himself, and he does nothing with it.
You "give up" on a kid the moment he (or your continuing to work with him) becomes a negative factor on the rest of your football team.
That's about as simple as I can make it. Your job is the team, not bending over for individuals who won't help themselves. You can open all the doors, but they have to walk through them.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 12, 2011 7:52:52 GMT -6
removing the kid from athletics doesn't have to be "giving up on him" as a person. a coach, a staff, a school can still provide support for the student whether he is involved in extra-curricular activities or not.
keeping him on the team may not equate to real support or help.... just like kicking him off the team may not be giving up on him.
if you want to support this young man then provide other avenues to mentor, teach, encourage, model.... doesn't have to just be football. that's part of life's teachable moments. "hey, sorry but you knew what the rules were. we just can 't let you be a part of the team. but, we are going to help you through this and once we get everything back on track, we can discuss you coming back out" then, continue to mentor, talk with, etc. the young man... stay in his life in some fashion.
giving up on them as a football player is different than giving up on them as a young man
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cujo
Sophomore Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cujo on Mar 12, 2011 8:34:02 GMT -6
I agree, you never give up on him, you guys will help him until the kid is gone, but as above, football doesn't have to be the answer. we have kids we still try to reach, but they are not part of the team.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Mar 12, 2011 18:16:53 GMT -6
To borrow a phrase I once heard, "You can't save them all, even Jesus only got 11 out of 12."
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 13, 2011 0:47:59 GMT -6
DITTO
When I say I'll never give up on a kid that doesn't mean that I won't remove him from a team because he's become too much of a risk for the good of a team.
What that does mean is that as long as I'm collecting a paycheck from my school I will always be a resource for the kid. I've had to remove a player from our program just before his senior season. He came to me for a letter of recommendation before he graduated to get into a university. I've also had to remove two players in recent years for drug use. Both ended up being expelled from our school BUT completed their diploma elsewhere. Both students came back to school to show me their diploma. I had to give testimonies for both boys to help them enroll in their new schools.
Giving up in an athletic context doesn't mean you stop working on behalf of the kid's welfare. We are in the kid business, right?
So I'd say cut a kid loose if needed but let him know that you are still in his corner.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 13, 2011 0:57:45 GMT -6
I have to comment that just because a kid isn't able or willing to help himself (despite everyone's efforts) doesn't mean that he isn't worthy of being saved (whatever that means).
I always teach my players to NEVER GIVE UP. We (coaches) model this in a silly game but we'd better be modeling this when we are talking about life.
Sometimes there's kids who don't want our help if we have to remove them but it's better for them to know its because they walked away from an open door rather than having it slammed in their face.
The most important title any of us can have is, "Dad." The second? "Coach." If we can't carry that title with a big dose of compassion it might be time to go sell cars.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 13, 2011 18:30:53 GMT -6
To borrow a phrase I once heard, "You can't save them all, even Jesus only got 11 out of 12." Hey that's my quote! LOL anyways....going back to the original post sounds like the kid is locked up for a pretty serious crime, I would guess at that point it's done. He made his own choices/decisions to get there, you aren't gonna do much now I hate to say it. I know we tell our kids never to give up and fight and all that but you can only give so many chances to some one before you are just being taken advantage of. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." |
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Post by coachcb on Mar 13, 2011 19:06:05 GMT -6
I kicked a kid off of the team this year because he had a terrible attitude, it was affecting the team and he lied to me about missing a practice the day before a game. I confronted him about missing that practice and was told to f--- off.
Did I give up om him at that point? No, I didn't. I gave up on him when I exhausted myself by trying to be there for him in every other way. I fought tooth and nail to help him keep his grades up (he's not even in my class) and I went to bat for him when he was busted with drugs at school and they were going to kick him out. He started skipping his drug/alcohol awareness classes and then had one of his tantrums when I talked to him about it.
It's a two way street and I'm not going to put my time and energy into a kid that doesn't give a crap. I coach and teach in an extremely impoverished area and I have enough kids in my classes and on the football team that will respond positively to the help and guidance I give them.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 13, 2011 21:50:04 GMT -6
coachcb
If you found yourself in a help position to give this kid a "hand up" would you do it?
I'm not saying go way out of your way and try to help him set his life up for success but if you could help him would you say, "yes" or "no"?
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Post by coachcb on Mar 14, 2011 7:16:06 GMT -6
coachcb If you found yourself in a help position to give this kid a "hand up" would you do it? I'm not saying go way out of your way and try to help him set his life up for success but if you could help him would you say, "yes" or "no"? I would if he asked for the help. But, IMO, this kid is only going to learn his lessons the hard way. Honestly, he's an entitled little monster; his folks are great people, his home life is good and his family runs a very successful ranch. He's got all of the resources he needs to get his sh-t together. Resources that the rest of the kids at that school don't have. |
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Post by John Knight on Mar 14, 2011 7:18:54 GMT -6
NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED!!!!!!!!
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Post by coachcb on Mar 14, 2011 8:52:00 GMT -6
Something to remember; continually going the extra mile for a kid can work against them as well. It becomes a game of entitlement. The kid figures he can screw up all he wants, treat everyone that tries to help him like sh-t and still act like a punk. That's the way my "little buddy" is.
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Post by gunrun on Mar 14, 2011 11:26:37 GMT -6
Good topic and comments by everyone. Very true what CoachCB said about some kids having to learn lessons the hard way. We are forced to baby these high school students so much in this fantasy world where there are few to no consequences. Football is about the only place where these kids are being held accountable for their actions. These kids need this discipline and acountability to help prepare them for "real life" after high school. For some kids, the kick in the butt they need may be getting kicked off the team (not that you can't still help them out like Coach Huey and others said).
Like DCOhio said, it's "sad but true" about the kids that refuse our help. You can't make these kids care if they don't. We can only help the ones that will accept our efforts.
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Post by runtoball on Mar 14, 2011 13:02:53 GMT -6
Dont' sell your values. It sounds like whatever this kid did is something that goes totally against your values. I would wash my hands of it. There's a lot I will do for a kid. But at some point I would have to think of it from the point of view of where my values are. If you can't do it with good conscious, don't do it.
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200 
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Post by juice10 on Mar 16, 2011 10:47:34 GMT -6
Many of you have already said it, but I always think that the young men on our football team need to make an attempt. It is a two way street, and most of the time the kids we are talking about need to make an effort to become better people, teammates, etc. I don't expect these types of players to meet me halfway, but I do expect some type of an effort.
We all have kids on our team like this, and I believe in my experience I spent too much time on a few kids last year. They were good kids, but nothing at home. Kids who need football more than football needs them. No guidance, no boundaries, and I spent numerous hours trying to get them on the practice field and under my supervision. It bit me, and I think I lost some of our better players because a lot of my time was spend on them. Good, bad, I don't know, but I did learn that I can't save everyone and I did learn that there needs to be some effort on both ends to make this work.
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Post by dirtybird13 on Mar 19, 2011 22:13:18 GMT -6
Lou Holtz at the 2010 AFCA convention in orlando
"Oftentimes when a young man needs love and understanding the most, is when he deserves it the least."
I agree with the maintaining the line... "I'm sorry son, you've got some things to get straight before you can come back out..."
It's not much, in fact it's very little, but a kid that chose to run with the gang crowd rather than be a part of the team, I try and find time here and there to talk to him. Suggesting repeatedly that he still has a choice, and that he can better himself if he only wants. I may say this a million times, but if it takes that millionth for him to hear me, it was worth it.
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coach16
Sophomore Member
Posts: 126
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Post by coach16 on Apr 24, 2011 17:57:18 GMT -6
I believe in helping a kid through the team until he becomes a cancer to the team.
As much as I hate putting a kid off the team, it is sometimes necessary.
It helps the team move forward without distractions.
It helps the young man realize that there are consequences for his actions.
Even when the player is removed from team, as long as he is trying to help him self I will try to help him.
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