chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by chuff on Mar 7, 2011 15:55:44 GMT -6
Coaches- I'm looking for some feedback. I would appreciate greatly to know what you do/ have done.
In the past, we held a morning lifting/ conditioning session, and a separate team camp in the afternoons (for the number of dates we were allowed). My problem was that some kids would show up to lifting, but not to camp and visa versa. This year I am considering doing both in the morning. I am hoping that with only having one "event" that day it will become more important to the kids and they will attend. On the other hand, though, will the kids that used to only show up for one event now not show up at all? The committed kids will be there no matter what we do, but we have be massacred by depth issues in the last few years so I am trying to find a way to get that other 1/3 of the team involved to the extent I would like.
Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom!
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Post by blb on Mar 7, 2011 16:19:36 GMT -6
We have Conditioning Workouts M-W-F mornings.
We have a three-day camp (mornings only) last week in July.
We do a few 7-on-7s.
And that's enough for us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 7:56:11 GMT -6
We've had a lot of sucess with a similar schedule to what chuff posted. In IL, we are allowed 25 "contact days" over the summer. You can do 25 full contact practices if you wish, but most programs don't go with that approach. We have weight lifting and conditioning sessions every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday throughout the summer. We then hold a five day camp in the evenings the last week of July but the informaton on that camp is out by late-spring so families have plenty of time to plan accordingly. With taking some time off around the 4th of July, we actully end up a few days short of our alloted 25.
The emphasis on the morning workouts is weight lifting and conditioning, but then we go outside to the practice field for about a half hour of inidividual drills.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 8, 2011 8:01:18 GMT -6
Dang, yall yankees have it made, 25 days of contact before fall ball?!?!??!?
All we can do after spring practice is 7-7.
Maybe you might have a better turn out if you do them in the evening, b/c getting rides to and from would be easier once mommy/daddy gets off work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 8:08:33 GMT -6
Well, in IL we don't have spring practice but I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm a huge supporter of all sports and our track and baseball seasons basically go through the end of May, so then we'd be in a situation where kids would have to be choosing sports. I think three years in a row now, our baseball team has had a regional game the same weekend as graduation. I'd much rather have our summer situation than spring practice.
I can't speak for chuff, but in our situaion, we aren't allowed to provide the transportation for summer events. And, the evening time slot would be trade off. Sure, parents could arrange and provide rides easier, but all of our kids who work in the fast food industry would have issues with getting out of work. We get 75-8O% attendance at our summer functions. That's not perfect but with summer basketball, summer baseball, kids working jobs or for their family's farm, and vacations, I'll take it. In discussing this very issue with other coaches in our conference, that percentage of attendance seems to be the norm.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 8, 2011 8:14:46 GMT -6
We got 10 days in the spring and no jamboree, but can have an intersquad scrimmage and charge a gate this year.
Good thing about spring sports down here is that they start practicing last week in Jan and by May there is only the last couple of rounds of the playoffs.
We can go 7-7 as many times as we want, but only get 10 competition days in the summer. No contact what so ever.
I can't imagine how much we could get done with 25 days in the summer. Do most schools spread this out over the whole summer, or do they lump most of those days closer to August?
Funny how different things are around the country.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 8:31:46 GMT -6
Depends on the school, coach. Based on my discussions with other coaches, I would say most spread them out but then there are schools that basically start practice in July because of these dates. I'd say they are by far in the minorty, though.
I should also point out that in IL we don't start official fall practice until around August 15th. I know some states can start earlier than that. It's always a Wednesday and that date is normally between the 1Oth and 15th. August 1st through the day before the official start is a dead period.
Basically, the use of those dates is like anything else in that it comes down to a coach's philosophy. I've worked for a program where we basically had our entire offense installed by the end of the summer and I've worked for programs that basically just used the dates for conditioning and 7 on 7 practice.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 8, 2011 8:35:19 GMT -6
how many weeks of preseason before your first game?
We start 1st Monday in August, 3 days acclimation, and have 3 total weeks before week 1. We get 5 total scrimmages/jamborees in that 3 weeks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 8:38:46 GMT -6
We start on a Wednesday and the first game is two weeks from that Friday. So, basically, only a week and a half of what I would consider preaseason and then you're at Game Week 1 already. No scrimmages or "preseason" games of any sort against other schools. Most programs will have a fundraiser intersquad scrimmage the Friday before the first regular season game where admission is a bottle of Gatorade or a small monetary donation to the program.
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Post by blb on Mar 8, 2011 8:49:05 GMT -6
Don't think we'd have contact practices before start of Two-a-days even if we could.
Wouldn't want a kid to suffer an injury that would slow him or cause him to miss time during the actual competitive season.
Also, our coaches have young families and many work a second job in summer, and/or are doing graduate work. So their availability for full-blown practices would be problematic.
And with funding issues in education and economy in general, doubt that there would be compensation available for them in June-July.
Then there's the issue of burn-out. Forgetting about kids playing other sports, having jobs, family time, and school once it starts, we begin actual practice about a month before school and season lasts until end of October, into November for those who make playoffs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 8:59:42 GMT -6
That's my thought on it and that's why we keep the focus on strength and conditioning as opposed to actual practice. I was just pointing that, by rule, if a program wanted to make the 25 days 25 practices, they could.
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Post by superpower on Mar 8, 2011 9:10:13 GMT -6
We open the weightroom for morning workouts Monday-Friday for the summer. We ask the kids to invest an hour 4 times each week. We also have our one-week team camp (no pads - just helmets) in July where we install offense and defense. We do not attend any 7 on 7's and we don't go to any team camps at colleges.
In Kansas we are allowed to do more than this, but it is really difficult in a rural area to ask much more of our kids. They have summer basketball, wrestling camps, summer baseball, jobs, etc. We also have kids who live 20+ miles out of town.
Some probably think that we should do more, but we are having success with this approach. Our kids are hungry and fresh when practice starts in the fall, and we have made the playoffs for the past 4 years, losing in the semi-final round last season.
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Post by blb on Mar 8, 2011 9:17:29 GMT -6
Some probably think that we should do more, but we are having success with this approach. Our kids are hungry and fresh when practice starts in the fall I think this is key. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD (kind of like some parents of students shouldn't be) or must. Plus I don't want to be mad at them before practice even starts because they missed something in June or July.
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Post by davishfc on Mar 8, 2011 10:12:29 GMT -6
3 days a week over the summer, Monday-Wednesday-Friday, 4:00-8:00 (2 hours Skill/OL Session, 2 hours Agility, Lifting, Conditioning)
NO 7-on-7 competitions
NO college team camps
NO Skill Sessions or Weight Training during DEAD PERIOD (REQUIRED by state governing body which means zero contact with players for 1 week...we do this around July 4th since they go on vacation sometimes anyway)
NO Skill Sessions week before the season (REQUIRED by state governing body)
2-Day Team Installation Camp (end of July)
NO Weight Training the last Friday of the summer (NOT REQUIRED by the state, we just do it to give the kids a long weekend before Camp Victory, our 1st week of practice, begins)
Our season starts the second week of August. We feel this format has allowed us to maximize the time we have with our players. At the same time, this is not as demanding as we could potentially make it which I believe is a positive.
When I first instituted this summer program my first year at the helm in 2007, I sought the point of diminishing returns and we stopped just short of it with our expectations. High expectations without burning our players out. This summer program has helped our program tremendously.
When I took over, the program had ONLY 4 winning seasons since 1971. Despite us being very close to changing that last year, the program still does. The program was also 5-40 the previous 5 years before I took over.
The program hit rock bottom the year before I took over, in 2006, when the varsity forfeited the remainder of the season after 4 games due to low numbers. We've since gone:
2007 (0-9) 2008 (1-7) 2009 (4-5) 2010 (4-5) *lost 2 games by a total of 8 points...very close
Had we won those two close games in 2010, we would have made the playoffs for the 3rd time in school history. I don't explain this to brag because obviously many coaches on this forum have accomplished much more than this.
But in our situation, with what was inherited, I truly believe our summer program, set up in the way that it is, has been a major component that's helped our program get to where we are today.
I understand the importance of striking a balance between expectations and time away from football. But let's not forget this is football. So I leave you with a quote from my signature line originally stated by a FEMALE TEACHER...
"Football may be the best-taught subject in American high schools because it may be the only subject that we haven't tried to make easy."
-Dorothy Farnan Former English Department Chairman Erasmus Hall High School Brooklyn, New York
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chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by chuff on Mar 8, 2011 10:34:00 GMT -6
The law of diminishing returns has been our downfall. That's what I am trying to avoid. We have always peaked at our scrimmage! We are AWESOME at the scrimmage!
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Post by realdawg on Mar 8, 2011 13:34:57 GMT -6
We usually work 4 days a week From 830 to about 11 am. We mix up lifting, agilities, conditioning, and position specific drills. Some days we may just lift and run, some days we may just practice the whole time. Typical week looks something like this.
Monday 830-930 Varsity Lift, JV Agility/Speedwork 930-1030-Switch 1030-1100 Offensive Position Drills
Tuesday 830-930 Varsity Lift/JV Agility/Speedwork 930-1030-Switch 1030-Condition
Wed- 830-1030-Practice. (as much like a real practice as we can with no body to body contact) O Indy, O team, D indy, D team, etc... 1030-Condition Thur 830-930 Varsity Lift/JV agility/speedwork 930-1030 Switch 1030 Defensive Position Drills
Also usually have at least one 7 on 7 during the evening each week and go to a couple of 7 on 7 competitions or camps in the area.
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Post by davishfc on Mar 9, 2011 7:10:25 GMT -6
The law of diminishing returns has been our downfall. That's what I am trying to avoid. We have always peaked at our scrimmage! We are AWESOME at the scrimmage! That's the trick. Finding that point. We were fortunate enough to set a level of expectations that were as close to that point as possible and we had a group of seniors the first year that were receptive. They weren't resistant to what we were trying to institute within our program. Don't take this the wrong way Coach, but your team peaking at the scrimmage gets me thinking. It sounds like you may have the right idea during the preseason but something is happening during the season that's preventing your team from reaching it's full potential. At your next coaching staff meeting, I would bring this up and really dissect all aspects of your program and particularly last season to identify areas that you can improve. My personal concern would be that it could possibly be what the coaching staff is doing or not doing that could be holding the program back. Not at all saying you're holding your players back but that would be a concern I would have with our program if our team was peaking at the scrimmage. There is a 9-game regular season, in Michigan, in which we have to win 6 to ensure ourselves a playoff berth. Playing well throughout the season is the goal and if you're peaking at the scrimmage obviously that's not happening. My coaches understand that I will always push the envelope with them because if they can't or won't, how can we expect the players to buy in. Just a thought.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 9, 2011 7:43:00 GMT -6
We have team workouts starting in July from 5-7 (weightroom open at 4)on M/W/TH for about 5 weeks then a week off and the full pad two-a-days camp time starts.
This past summer in in PA we were allowed to put on shoulder pads in the summer for team workouts along with helmets that we have been allowed to wear for several years now. I wasn't sure how I felt about it at first but after a year of doing it I would say it has made a huge impact on our team. There are some very specific things you are allowed and not allowed to do in the shoulder pads so it's not a true full contact environment. Just getting the qb's throwing in pads, the rb's taking hand offs and the wr's catching in shoulder pads was worth it. You could see a difference from years past when we started two-a-days.
It may not be for everyone but our kids really bought into it and it got them amped up for the season and really got the football mind set going nice and early.
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Post by highball007 on Mar 9, 2011 7:49:38 GMT -6
We have the weight room open for lifting and speed and agility 4 days a week. We do a week long camp in July. Our Spring Ball starts on May 28th and really could end when we want it to but usually the second week of June. 7 on 7 Tourny's we go to 3 everfy summer, I would like to go to more, but the kdis have basketball and baseball. We have a dead week the first week in August. We then have two weeks of conditioning before our one week of doubles, then on two the games.
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Post by blb on Mar 9, 2011 7:59:40 GMT -6
It'll never happen in Michigan (at least in my lifetime) but if we could use shoulder pads in Summer we'd do it only at our three-day camp at end of July and not for full contact for reasons wingtol cited among others.
Playing in pads is so much different than running around in underwear. That's one reason why we don't do a lot of 7-on-7s or other skill work in June-July.
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Post by davishfc on Mar 9, 2011 8:05:48 GMT -6
It'll never happen in Michigan (at least in my lifetime) but if we could use shoulder pads in Summer we'd do it only at our three-day camp at end of July and not for full contact for reasons wingtol cited among others. Playing in pads is so much different than running around in underwear. That's one reason why we don't do a lot of 7-on-7s or other skill work in June-July. You're right blb. Pads over the summer will never happen in Michigan. I agree, playing in pads is so much different than running around in underwear....classic. Hilarious! ;D
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chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by chuff on Mar 9, 2011 20:35:28 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I am on the "less is more"'plan right now. A bit of personal history: I was an assistant at a DIII college before getting my first HS HC job at a young age (26). Obviously the school that I got the job at is not a fb powerhouse (why else would they hire a 26 yr old!). I was hired about three weeks before the season started and their summer program was circuit training two days a week... That's it! We had three players in the program taken off the field in stretchers that year! My reaction: increase the expectations for weight training and practice. We had great results early on, but over the course of a long season, it becomes, well, a long season! Particularly if you're not winning. I have reduced the commitment that I have expected since then and we've been much more competitive. But working out LESS is against my natural instinct so I guess I just needed some reassurance!
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Post by coachhart on Mar 10, 2011 7:36:23 GMT -6
To chime in late on this one... There's a fine line between not doing enough and doing too much. At my last stop we were going to every 7 on 7 known to man, and got to be pretty good at it. Of course, the kids were burnt out on football before August rolled around and our passing game took a major hit because it's a lot easier to chuck the rock with no pass rush and when those big fellas started sacking the QB people lost their minds. Long story short, do what you need to do but don't go overboard with it.
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