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Post by blackfly73 on Jun 4, 2007 17:51:42 GMT -6
I'm curious if anybody stretches in INDIVIDUAL period as opposed to as a "team" in lines near the beginning of practice?
I recently heard a good coach talk about this at a clinic, and his rationale was that they get more Indy work done that way as opposed to spending time getting in lines & stretching. They warm up and do some runs, then go to position groups and stretch as part of individual periods.
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Post by briangilbert on Jun 4, 2007 18:01:18 GMT -6
I played at a Mac school in college and we did it the same way. I agree, the only problem with that at the HS level is do you have enough coaches on the staff to pull it off? If you do then I would do it, if you don't then it's tough to supervise.
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Post by fbdoc on Jun 4, 2007 18:54:37 GMT -6
We do ours in a group (8 minutes of dynamic and agility + 8 minutes of partner stretch) for that very reason - I want it done right and it starts practice off as a TEAM activity. Not saying its the best way but it works and thats why we do it.
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Post by coachdjenkins on Jun 4, 2007 19:29:18 GMT -6
The Air Raid guys believe in this -- Mumme, Leach, Hatcher none of them stretch as a team. QBs & WR warm-up with "Settle-UP & Noose", "Pat-n-Go", and Routes on Air.
Heard Mumme at a Clinic once defend this method with the following comment, "Have you ever see a dog with with a pulled muscle...Do Dogs stretch before they jump off the porch to chase a car"
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Jun 4, 2007 19:44:26 GMT -6
We do a 5 minute warm-up in position groups to work on specific movements as get the blood flowing. We will then move to a 10 minute dynamic period as a team. We will end practice with a 5-10 minute cool-down static stretch in position groups. There are two reasons we do it as a position group. The first is to give the position group coach the chance to sum up the practice, make announcements, and to provide feedback as to what needs to improve with the next practice. This helps to save some time. The second reason is to develop position group leaders. The players in their position group elect two players to lead stretch and other position group activities.
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Post by wingman on Jun 4, 2007 19:55:07 GMT -6
We have never team stretched in 31 years and I can count our hamstring pulls on one hand, Stretching a cold muscle at the start of practice makes no sense anyway. We do 5 minutes of rope ladders as a team and that works great. They're warm, fast movemenst with short steps.
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Post by touchdowng on Jun 4, 2007 20:48:44 GMT -6
We do 5 min of agilities 5 minutes of token stretch - main to get hips loose
Then we go straight to indo
We do, however, go to a flex period after practice is over where we do about 7 minutes of static stretch (goal is to improve flexibility) and this is when we do our partner necks.
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Post by lochness on Jun 5, 2007 6:22:20 GMT -6
We do team "dynamic warm-ups" at the beginning of practice, after pre-practice and a couple of laps have warmed them up.
We do a partner assisted static stretch at the end of practice.
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Post by coachcoyote on Jun 5, 2007 21:00:06 GMT -6
We did a great deal of indy stretch in JC. Have done it sparingly with HS because of number of coaches able to be there at end of school. I liked it because you could do more position specific things.
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gator9
Probationary Member
Posts: 6
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Post by gator9 on Jun 6, 2007 14:38:05 GMT -6
We don't stretch at all. Here in South Texas the temps get into the high 90's and low 100's, the jog from our field house to the field is warm-up enough.
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Post by cc on Jun 6, 2007 22:22:08 GMT -6
I would love to see someone say to Mumme that "sure, but my dog cannot catch passes for me." Whats the point of that analogy??? They are young men, not dogs.
I think stretching is a good thing. We do patterns vs air, dynamic stretch, then stretching. Then a circuit for various techniques.
We cut out stretching one year and asked them to do it on their own and pulls went up.
And yes dogs can sprain / pull. Our dog sprained his knee once!
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Post by coache67 on Jun 7, 2007 7:00:06 GMT -6
We do the QB/WR stuff mentioned above but what do you do for OL/DL for a position specific dynamic warmup/stretch? How about LB's/DB's - drops and INTs and strides at 75% speed?
I would be interested if any one does the full on Mumme deal.
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Jun 7, 2007 7:40:53 GMT -6
but what do you do for OL/DL for a position specific dynamic warmup/stretch? We have OL/DL types on the agility ladders A LOT. We are a very small school and players play both ways. We alternate warm-up periods between defensive and offensive position groups: Monday--O, Tues--D, Wed--O, & Thu--D. They will go through the ladders once on a defensive day and once on an offensive day. On the non-ladder day, the OL will work on their daily steps (i.e. inside zone right, ISZ left, OSZ right/left, trap right/left, etc.) on the boards. They are always required to jog an additional 15 yards past the board. We will increase the intensity from 50% speed at the start and work to 80-90% by the end of the session. For DL, we will do a lot of change of direction drills to develop hip flexibility. One of the common warm-ups involves creating a box with cones (about 10 yards between cones). We have the players execute about as many combinations of movements you can think of (carioca, shuffles, sprints) in both diagonal movements between cones and around the box. Players are also required to jog 15 yards out of the last cone. We will increase the speed of these types of drills from 50% to 80-90% as well.
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Post by wingman on Jun 7, 2007 10:41:50 GMT -6
If you run through the rope ladders fast and you can do it fast because the steps are small, you will be warm. we do One step in squares, two steps in squares, Sideways, Running Backs, Hops, W's, Ickis, Scissors, Bunny Hops, Slalom, and Turn the hips. Obviously you don't know what those all are but i t takes 5- 7 minutes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2007 11:06:03 GMT -6
We dont stretch anymore either. Here is what we do for DL and LB
DL: a. Take Offs w/change of direction b. Stunt courses vs. flat bags c. Movement redirection Drill d. Footwork grid drill
LB: a. Pass Drops b. 45's(Working Downhill) c. Leverage Drill
Hopefully this helps
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mib36
Sophomore Member
Being a male is a matter of birth. Being a man is a matter of choice.
Posts: 238
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Post by mib36 on Jun 7, 2007 12:20:02 GMT -6
We do a short (by short I mean 3 min) team stretch, but it's mostly for show (sorry, but the truth hurts). We do our stretching in position groups.
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Post by phantom on Jun 7, 2007 12:20:03 GMT -6
In addition to our warmup routine we also stretch as a team before practice. It gets them together as a team, we feel, and we also have the issue with coaches who don't coach at the school. Does stretching help? I don't know. I do know this- I'm not going to be the guy who convinces the boss to cut stretching then have our TB pull a hammy.
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Post by silkyice on Jun 7, 2007 14:51:42 GMT -6
I believe we have been through this in another thread last year. Let me tell you my experience.
We had our normal share of muscle pulls when we were stretching.
The baseketball coach and I decided to go without stretching and try it. We heard all the Air Raid guys and read some articles. We also figured that the kids don't stretch before pick up basketball games or flag football and nobody pulls anything.
So here is what we did: Football would warm-up by going 10 yards down and back of high knees, butt kick, and carioca, then go right at it full speed if that was on the schedule. It took 1 minute. The basketball team would just do some layups before practice, then go full speed. No stretching at all for either team.
No joke, we did not have one muscle pull in football or basketball for three straight years! Baseball continued to stretch and continued to have muscle pulls and strains.
This past season we got a new strength and conditioning coordinator (completely certified, even taught at major unversity, great guy). We implemented 10 minute dynamic warm-up and tons of stretching. We had so many muscle pulls and TEARS that I went back to my way after the second game. Yep, you guessed it, not one after that.
By the way, we have had some real burners in the past even without stretching.
I think that if you are going to stretch, you should do so after practice. I do completely believe in some type of warm-up, but I think 1 minute is plenty. Just someting to get the heart rate up, start a little sweat, and get the muscles ready.
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jman
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by jman on Jun 7, 2007 23:27:47 GMT -6
I have definately adopted the attitude that there is a difference between warming up and stretching. The only time we stretch is a post-stretch after practice. However, we do about a 10 minute warm up everyday. Once we get into the season, all warm-ups will be done in position groups.
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Post by lukethadrifter on Jun 8, 2007 9:51:10 GMT -6
static stretching is a waste of time - go to an elementary playground and watch kids when they are let out for recess - do you see a lot of stretching going on before they play? - NO - have the kids jog to the practice field to warm up the body and go through a few agilities or calisthenics and then start practice - when I see kids in lines static stretching for 15 minutes or so, this is time that could be spent working on more skills/drills - and when was the last time you have seen a football player in a game sitting on his butt with his knees locked trying to reach out and grab his toes? - Luke
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Post by joelee on Jun 8, 2007 10:29:02 GMT -6
we do the full Mumme deal with the skill kids and jump rope with the line. No problems yet.
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Post by fbdoc on Jun 8, 2007 10:38:22 GMT -6
As I've already mentioned, we perform agility movements (lunges, high knees, shuffles, etc) along with 2 partner stretches for the hips/hammies (old school PNF stretch) and then get after it. I can buy into having athletes "Warm Up" by easing running or performing movements - pass routes, etc. - instead of stretching, but to use the arguement that a dog doesn't warm up or little kids going out to recess don't warm up is not going to convince me to change! Little kids don't have the musculature compared to bone mass that a high school athlete has nor do HS athletes sprint down field on all fours! Tell me you do something because it works, or because you have scientific / practical evidence that it is better, but don't tell me you train athletes the same way you play with dogs or little kids. Just my opinion.
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Post by dolomite on Jun 15, 2007 14:41:52 GMT -6
I would love to see someone say to Mumme that "sure, but my dog cannot catch passes for me." Whats the point of that analogy??? They are young men, not dogs. I think stretching is a good thing. We do patterns vs air, dynamic stretch, then stretching. Then a circuit for various techniques. We cut out stretching one year and asked them to do it on their own and pulls went up. And yes dogs can sprain / pull. Our dog sprained his knee once! My dog could kick your dogs ace!!! LOL
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Post by dolomite on Jun 15, 2007 14:45:44 GMT -6
I've read that stretching before practice or a game is useless. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone hurt doing this. It is a team activity. It builds comradery and conformity. I will not stretch the kids out for more than ten minutes.
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Post by silkyice on Jun 15, 2007 18:47:25 GMT -6
Tell me you do something because it works, or because you have scientific / practical evidence that it is better, but don't tell me you train athletes the same way you play with dogs or little kids. Here is my post from above: I believe we have been through this in another thread last year. Let me tell you my experience. We had our normal share of muscle pulls when we were stretching. The baseketball coach and I decided to go without stretching and try it. We heard all the Air Raid guys and read some articles. We also figured that the kids don't stretch before pick up basketball games or flag football and nobody pulls anything. So here is what we did: Football would warm-up by going 10 yards down and back of high knees, butt kick, and carioca, then go right at it full speed if that was on the schedule. It took 1 minute. The basketball team would just do some layups before practice, then go full speed. No stretching at all for either team. No joke, we did not have one muscle pull in football or basketball for three straight years! Baseball continued to stretch and continued to have muscle pulls and strains. This past season we got a new strength and conditioning coordinator (completely certified, even taught at major unversity, great guy). We implemented 10 minute dynamic warm-up and tons of stretching. We had so many muscle pulls and TEARS that I went back to my way after the second game. Yep, you guessed it, not one after that. By the way, we have had some real burners in the past even without stretching. I think that if you are going to stretch, you should do so after practice. I do completely believe in some type of warm-up, but I think 1 minute is plenty. Just someting to get the heart rate up, start a little sweat, and get the muscles ready.
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Post by touchdowng on Jun 17, 2007 20:26:19 GMT -6
Many years ago when Jerry Tarkanian was the basketball coach at UNLV, he brought in a "flexibility expert" who was going to focus on minimizing hamstring pulls (that was her area of expertise) and to increase flexibility in the Running Rebel Bball players.
Tark didn't bring her back the next year because they had more muscle pulls than ever before.
Just thought I'd share
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Post by coachmacplains on Jun 18, 2007 16:09:51 GMT -6
I was in on the discussion last year also. I'm one of the "traditionalists" with regard to static stretching in that we do it before practice, along with a dynamic routine. One of the great challenges of coaching, it seems to me, is filtering through the scientific claims and putting them into practical application. The other day I read an article by a well respected physiologist that lactic acid is not the culprit in distance runner fatigue, a concept that flies in the face of what we have been told for years. So with static stretching; there doesn't seem to be a consensus, though at this point in time the balance seems to be definitely tipped in favor of some sort of dynamic prep, at least in current literature. Where the rubber meets the road, though, we have had good success with using static stretching. The one thing that sells me a bit, and seems to make some sense, is that the tensile strength of the muscle is compromised as much as 30% when stretched; ie, if you take a rubber band and stretch it out, it will not have the same velocity if you shoot it as when you leave it alone. Give it a decade or two and the experts will probably come around the other way. The challenge is to do the best we can with available knowledge and existing time constraints and put it into action; that's part of the art of coaching.
I still think that there is merit to the way we warm up and will continue until convinced otherwise; our injury situation has been good in football and track with the same basic regimen - total of 3 hammies in 19 years and no quads.
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Post by coachmacplains on Jun 18, 2007 16:11:22 GMT -6
Is it a coincidence that there is an "elasicsteel" ad on this page?
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