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Post by dc207 on Feb 28, 2011 19:44:50 GMT -6
When my Dad was a superintendent (he was a former head football coach before that, so he understands the demands) he had to fire a very successful coach for not showing up to teach his class. It was unbelievable, this guy would have a football player pass out worksheets to his first three classes and not show up until 4th hour. I guess this dude thought he was Bud Kilmer from Varsity Blues and could do whatever the hell he wanted since he won a couple 2A state titles in Missouri. It's guys like that dude that make coaches look like a bunch of lazy dbags. That guy does sound like a moron, but I think teacher-coaches like that are very rare. Most coaches, at least the one's I have known, are very prepared and dedicated to "both masters". To me, administrator's and others need to be more accomodating of teacher-coaches, because in the end the goal is to have a good teacher and a good coach. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 28, 2011 21:44:56 GMT -6
I love teaching math, but the issues brought to light in this thread are the very reasons why I picked up my math cert. Math teachers are in high demand around here and job security is a given. People don't want to play nice; I'll go somewhere else. You want have to run me out; I'll find the door. Luckily, I'm not in that situation right now; my administration is great. I hear ya brother. In am thankful everyday that when I was in college I was taking math and science class for class until they conflicted and my advisor...my old HS principal...said "if you always want a job, teach math" Last year we had 3 long term subs for math, none of them certified in math, 2 special ed and one PE. They hired 3 new math teachers this year one of them resigned mid year (because or principal is a 20 times a week classroom visitor) and district asked her if she would be interested in moving to the middle school...where they couldn't find a math teacher for their opening. It's funny, I'm certified in PE/Health and I applied for a job at a school I had been coaching at for 3 years. I have an awesome letter of recommendation from the head of the PE dept.; a guy that has been teaching there for over twenty years. I didn't even make the first cut and the administration knew me by first name and I had nothing but a good reputation at the school. I get my math cert, fill out the state wide application and I get no less then 21 letters in the mail from superintendents around the state in two weeks, asking me to come teach at in their districts. And, people wonder why I took the math position down here when I could be teaching PE in the middle school next door.
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Post by falconattack on Mar 1, 2011 10:56:35 GMT -6
Every Admin is different. Some respect the postion, others are jealous, and some just don't care, and I'm sure there are many more reasons. The best answer to alot of these issues is RESEARCH before signing the contract. Emptybackfield, if you are in the school I think you are, I passed on the job a few years ago. I talked to the former HC and he was very honest....made me believe the situation was not one I wanted to be a part of. Football had great potential, but the Admin's focus did not match up to my focus. Before taking a job, talk to the former coaches....they normally don't lie.
On a second note: Has anyone else notice the "New" Classroom Teaching Methods look very similar to what football practice schedules have looked like for years. Most of the time, a good coach is a good teacher, and a good teacher can make a good coach. The trick is to do both jobs with the same level of commitment.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 1, 2011 11:47:03 GMT -6
Just be objective when talking to former HCs; understand that there are two sides to every story.
I probably wouldn't have taken this position if I had talked to the previous staff before hand. They were a bunch of incompetent idiots and the one that's still around places all of the blame solely on the administration and the kids. I would have gotten some valuable information about the AD but it's nothing I didn't figure out a week into the season. And, I am in a rebuilding situation to the nth degree..
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Post by bigm0073 on Mar 1, 2011 14:43:06 GMT -6
I look at it this way -
Teacher contract hours in my county are 7:20 - 2:45 (school is 7:40 - 2:15).....
Now as a head coach I can probably county on two hands in the past three years I have left the school before 3:00... Hell if I leave before 3:00 or 3:30 I feel like I am cheating or doing something wrong.. Look most of us I am at the school easily until after 4:00 and usually after 5:00 daily... Workouts, meetings, film breakdown.. always something..
Summer time I am there four days a week from 9:00 AM - 11:30 AM...
Where are the other teachers? There at the pool or sleeping in...
Hell at my school after 3:00 85% of the teachers are GONE!!!! Ghost Town..
I have said this before and I will say this again -
We as coaches are NOT like everyone else. We do A LOT more for our school than a average teacher and put in WAY more time..
That being said when the time comes and I "need some things".. Certain preps, certain blocks off, missing meetings.... I believe I have earned it... Plain and simple.....
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Post by mitch on Mar 6, 2011 19:05:10 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong, I take teaching seriously and take care of my teaching responsibilities (better than a lot of 'just teachers').
But I'm a football coach first. They hired me here, and everywhere else I've been, because of coaching. If they fire me, it will be because of coaching. Everybody in the school building refers to me as 'coach'. Everyone in town knows I'm the football coach. Half the town loves me because I'm the coach, half the town hates me because I'm the coach. I'm quoted in the newspaper because I'm the coach. Etc, etc, etc.
Wether right or wrong, I'm a coach first.
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Post by coachklee on Mar 8, 2011 8:46:10 GMT -6
I hear ya brother. In am thankful everyday that when I was in college I was taking math and science class for class until they conflicted and my advisor...my old HS principal...said "if you always want a job, teach math" Last year we had 3 long term subs for math, none of them certified in math, 2 special ed and one PE. They hired 3 new math teachers this year one of them resigned mid year (because or principal is a 20 times a week classroom visitor) and district asked her if she would be interested in moving to the middle school...where they couldn't find a math teacher for their opening. It's funny, I'm certified in PE/Health and I applied for a job at a school I had been coaching at for 3 years. I have an awesome letter of recommendation from the head of the PE dept.; a guy that has been teaching there for over twenty years. I didn't even make the first cut and the administration knew me by first name and I had nothing but a good reputation at the school. I get my math cert, fill out the state wide application and I get no less then 21 letters in the mail from superintendents around the state in two weeks, asking me to come teach at in their districts. And, people wonder why I took the math position down here when I could be teaching PE in the middle school next door. Same thing for me! I was hired, in the classroom and teaching 2 weeks before I graduated because of my math certification! I'm not sure how other states work, but in Michigan you are able to teach a subject at the 6-12 grade level if you have at least a minor and passed the state MTTC test in that subject. I highly recommend to aspiring coaches to find a way to be certified in math for the same reason as you guys. Best part is that another math teacher moved into admin. this past year so my job is extremely safe unless the high school would lose over 100 students. I don't think that I'll need it, but the security attached to the demand for math teachers is always nice! The only grief that I ever had with admin. has been constant bugging to attend school improvement meetings after school (monthly staff meetings are always before school for us). I flat out told them that I felt that I did more to improve the school by building the handful of relationships with students in the weightroom so I'll be there instead. I still take the teaching extremely seriously...I feel my purpose 1st and foremost is to help all kids, but I only feel obligated to go out of the way for the football guys. Just like us coaches do more for the school than "teacher only" staff, football players have committed themselves to doing more for their school than "regular students."
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2011 9:44:33 GMT -6
I agree, getting a math certification is a good idea but some states are really starting to crack down on it. They want you to have a Bachelor's in the subject along with the education courses. OR they have a very involved Math Education program. It's pretty tough to just tack on an endorsement anymore. I lucked really lucked out because I had already taken a ton of math early on in my college career.
But, math teachers are in short supply and they're going to cut that pool even lower if they start requiring folks to pick up what basically amounts to an electrical/computer engineering degree. And, I'm not kidding about that; I have seen Math Education programs that are pretty friggin close.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 8, 2011 9:49:56 GMT -6
I agree, getting a math certification is a good idea but some states are really starting to crack down on it. They want you to have a Bachelor's in the subject along with the education courses. OR they have a very involved Math Education program. It's pretty tough to just tack on an endorsement anymore. I lucked really lucked out because I had already taken a ton of math early on in my college career. But, math teachers are in short supply and they're going to cut that pool even lower if they start requiring folks to pick up what basically amounts to an electrical/computer engineering degree. And, I'm not kidding about that; I have seen Math Education programs that are pretty friggin close. What are you talking about? Watch Fox News. Teaching is a part time job...
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Post by coach31 on Mar 8, 2011 9:56:01 GMT -6
I have a Math and Physics Cert here in PA. I also have a Math Education Masters. For my troubles I have about 36 undergrad credits of MATH and 24 Credits of Undergrad Physics. I have taken 4 graduate level math classes, and I passed the math praxis and the physics praxis. They were tough, but I got through it. Glad I have the certification, but it was a pain.
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Post by atowndown on Mar 8, 2011 10:06:12 GMT -6
I definitly think there is a difference in how the profession is treated in the south and how it is treated in the north. I don't know many head guys that teach anything other than weightlifting in my area of the country. Our head guy teaches three wieghtlifting classes out of a seven period day and the rest is devoted to coaching and AD duties. Me on the other hand as DC was given a tough schedule my first year, but when I proved my worth on the field and in the classroom they argreed to some tweaks in my schedule that allowed me to be better at both my jobs. Bottom line they hired me to be a football coach first and the fact I was good in the classroom was an added bonus for them.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2011 10:15:35 GMT -6
I agree, getting a math certification is a good idea but some states are really starting to crack down on it. They want you to have a Bachelor's in the subject along with the education courses. OR they have a very involved Math Education program. It's pretty tough to just tack on an endorsement anymore. I lucked really lucked out because I had already taken a ton of math early on in my college career. But, math teachers are in short supply and they're going to cut that pool even lower if they start requiring folks to pick up what basically amounts to an electrical/computer engineering degree. And, I'm not kidding about that; I have seen Math Education programs that are pretty friggin close. What are you talking about? Watch Fox News. Teaching is a part time job... Lol. I take a lot of crap from my friends about how I only work half of the year. I tell them to go back to school and pick up a teaching endorsement of some kind; that's what I did. Their response is generally the same; "I don't like kids".
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 8, 2011 10:21:41 GMT -6
What are you talking about? Watch Fox News. Teaching is a part time job... Lol. I take a lot of crap from my friends about how I only work half of the year. I tell them to go back to school and pick up a teaching endorsement of some kind; that's what I did. Their response is generally the same; "I don't like kids". Since it is related to the topic of teaching---the national discussion on the profession right now is quite troublesome.
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Post by blb on Mar 8, 2011 10:26:32 GMT -6
Since it is related to the topic of teaching---the national discussion on the profession right now is quite troublesome. That's for sure. If the "experts" and politicians have their way, you guys still in it will be teaching year-round with no tenure for Merit Pay and no benefits.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2011 11:29:44 GMT -6
I'm not too terribly concerned with the current view on education for four reasons:
1. A huge chunk of the teaching population is up for retirement. 2. More and more teachers are retiring early because of the current issues. 3. Fewer people are going to college to become teachers and between 50-75% of new teachers don't last longer than 3-5 years. 4. The population (class size) is growing rapidly.
Easy bottom: fewer employees plus more "customers" equals poor "customer service" and, as such, poor business.
And, canning entire administrations will have one definitive result; FEWER PEOPLE GOING INTO ADMINISTRATION.
People are entitled to their opinions about the current education system but the above facts don't lie and it's going to get real entertaining pretty quick.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 8, 2011 11:42:13 GMT -6
I'm not too terribly concerned with the current view on education for four reasons: 1. A huge chunk of the teaching population is up for retirement. 2. More and more teachers are retiring early because of the current issues. 3. Fewer people are going to college to become teachers and between 50-75% of new teachers don't last longer than 3-5 years. 4. The population (class size) is growing rapidly. Easy bottom: fewer employees plus more "customers" equals poor "customer service" and, as such, poor business. And, canning entire administrations will have one definitive result; FEWER PEOPLE GOING INTO ADMINISTRATION. People are entitled to their opinions about the current education system but the above facts don't lie and it's going to get real entertaining pretty quick. That is a rational point of view. Unfortunately, that is now how national debate works in the country anymore. Those 4 facts are absolutely meaningless.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 8, 2011 12:02:01 GMT -6
I'm not too terribly concerned with the current view on education for four reasons: 1. A huge chunk of the teaching population is up for retirement. 2. More and more teachers are retiring early because of the current issues. 3. Fewer people are going to college to become teachers and between 50-75% of new teachers don't last longer than 3-5 years. 4. The population (class size) is growing rapidly. Easy bottom: fewer employees plus more "customers" equals poor "customer service" and, as such, poor business. And, canning entire administrations will have one definitive result; FEWER PEOPLE GOING INTO ADMINISTRATION. People are entitled to their opinions about the current education system but the above facts don't lie and it's going to get real entertaining pretty quick. That is a rational point of view. Unfortunately, that is now how national debate works in the country anymore. Those 4 facts are absolutely meaningless. They may not carry a whole lot of weight on the national stage right now but they will when their consequences rear their ugly heads in a few years. It is what it is. All I can do is keep plugging away, hitting the standards as hard as I can and working from there.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Mar 8, 2011 19:18:12 GMT -6
A wise old teacher in one of my ed. classes said this to our class over 20 years ago:
"The biggest qualification for a teacher is to have a pulse...to be breathing. When the need for teachers increases, the pay doesn't go up to lure more candidates; the standards for becoming a teacher just drop."
He was also a big fan of, "The more things change, the more they stay the same."
I have found both of these statements to be largely true in the educational world, and I don't think we should expect to become more valued by society all of a sudden any time in the near future.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 9, 2011 12:26:27 GMT -6
A wise old teacher in one of my ed. classes said this to our class over 20 years ago: "The biggest qualification for a teacher is to have a pulse...to be breathing. When the need for teachers increases, the pay doesn't go up to lure more candidates; the standards for becoming a teacher just drop." He was also a big fan of, "The more things change, the more they stay the same." I have found both of these statements to be largely true in the educational world, and I don't think we should expect to become more valued by society all of a sudden any time in the near future. Nahh, we're not going to pick up anymore respect than we have now. But, I wouldn't be a teacher if I wanted respect from society. I subbed for a long time and I can tell you, there is a good reason NCLB is out there. I subbed for some teachers that never should have gotten out of college or be involved in the field. And, NCLB actually made their jobs easier; they just handed out sample questions for the standardized tests twice a week and winged the rest of it.
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