20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on May 4, 2007 8:25:00 GMT -6
I just took over as head baseball coach at a new school. I am currently teaching 50 miles away and driving to coach at night.
Anyways I just finished having my tryouts on Wenesday. On Thursday after the cuts were announced one of my players was arrested and charged with theft and burglary. He had stolen a master key from the school and has been caught on film stealing money from the office and breaking into other rooms.
I've only been around this kid for the 3 days of tryouts. I haven't had a parent meeting to discuss rules and expectations yet. That was planned for next week.
Should I just cut him loose and be done with it. The kid is a senior who has all of 8 days of school left. Our state plays summer baseball for high school.
The other thing I have weighing on my mind is the fact that our state has a No pass, No play rule. One F and a student sits for 20 days from athletics. I have one player on my team that failed a class first semester and isn't eligible to play until late June. The kids that got arrested will be able to play under the school districts policy right after Memorial Day weekend. Doesn't seem fair.
Any thoughts would be helpful.
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jamesmthomson
Sophomore Member
www.lakewoodfootball.com
Posts: 176
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Post by jamesmthomson on May 4, 2007 8:33:47 GMT -6
Get rid of him. Policies are great and it's good that you are going to have a meeting to spell them out to players and parents, but this is one that nobody should need explained. You don't want a kid like this on your team as you are trying to build your program. It would be one thing if he had a momentary lapse is good judgement--he is a teenager for crying out loud. But this is pre-meditated, planned out and methodical and shows a real character vacuum.
One more way to think about it what would be best for the kid. In my mind, if you let him back on the team he will on some level feel that he can do stuff this unethical and dishonest and illegal and the ramifications won't be that bad. That's a terrible lesson.
Remember this: in the long run, no player is worth compromising your standards or ethics for.
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Post by fbdoc on May 4, 2007 8:38:24 GMT -6
I can tell you that at our school (Private Christian) the theft would be grounds for immediate expulsion, and even if we didn't expel, he would be gone for the rest of the season.
As far as the F's, IMO you need to draw a line in the sand and then stand by it. If a kid can't get a stinkin D then do you really want his lazy butt on your team? You can discuss Learning styles and learning disabilities all you want. Our school has a No F's and a 2.0 cum cut off and although we do have some brilliant kids, we also have our share of kids who struggle... and still manage to get a D.
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Post by lsrood on May 4, 2007 8:47:20 GMT -6
Since you just took over you have toestablish yourself immediately. As the others mentioned, you have basically have two choices. Keep him and let him think that he can get away with this type of behavior because he is an athlete, or get rid of him and send a message to everyone that you will not tolerate this from any members of your team.
I know what my decision would be. He would be gone immediately. I would not want him representing our team. I can't speak for others, but that is how I would handle it and I know my administration would back me.
Check with your administration as well. See if there is a policy in place.
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rooster
Sophomore Member
Posts: 246
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Post by rooster on May 4, 2007 9:02:47 GMT -6
Stealing is one of the top reasons for dismissal, if not top reason. Unfortunately, there's a good chance he'll do it again!
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Post by coachcalande on May 4, 2007 9:54:50 GMT -6
I would Imagine that you wont have to worry about this one, my guess is that the school will deal with this thru the law and juvie is where that youngster is headed. IF for some reason your admin feels that they can let this boy stay in school and even play ball, then you certainly have to get their expectations as far as baseball is concerned...I know I went thru this with a drug issue. Some principals want to save the kids thru sports, others make examples of them. Personally, Ill take a kid like that and work with him and do my best to make a man out of him and make his experience as pleasurable as possible but a) hed not play much if at all b) he certainly wouldnt be out of my site ever and c) he has no hope of any kind of leadership role and we would ride him almost mercilessly for every little thing that was out of line..lateness, unprepared, language...you name it, wed be on it. the kids arent stupid, they "get it" when it comes to fair treatment of players.
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Post by coachmathis on May 4, 2007 9:58:29 GMT -6
I would toss him immediately, for me thats a no-brainer. I love the no pass no play rule because education is more important than athletics. Im not sure what a d is in other states but in texas you have to make at least a 70 in every class, no matter wut your cum avg is. There are some loopholes in this thing that were recently exposed and IMO made some school districts look very bad.
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Post by saintrad on May 4, 2007 18:21:46 GMT -6
aahhhh.... common sense would say kick him off the team
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Post by brophy on May 4, 2007 19:37:53 GMT -6
'advice'? How do you even have a CHOICE?
And we wonder why we are slapped with restrictions and state regulations for our program?
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20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on May 4, 2007 19:54:34 GMT -6
I want him to go. I agree with almost everything said. I am nervous administration isn't going to back me.
Thanks everybody.
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Post by aleator on May 4, 2007 20:55:44 GMT -6
We must first coach the person, then the student and finally the athlete. You can not be concerned about the administration backing you. You know what is right and there will be many more times that you will have to do what is right for your program. Set the tone "NOW" of what you expect of your athletes. Moreover, if the administration will not back you, you are in the wrong place and it is better to find that out early. Best of Luck
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SetHut
Junior Member
Posts: 314
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Post by SetHut on May 4, 2007 20:57:31 GMT -6
Is this not a misdemeanor? I'd say your school is going to suspend/expell him. If he's 18 he's lookin' at doin' time if the school presses it as they should. We had an incident at my HS a couple of days ago where a senior boy purchased a handgun on the bus from a student who stole it from his uncle. He kept it in his backpack all day in the school. No ammo. Now he's in jail and will be there for awhile. His parents aren't going to bail him out.
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Post by ajreaper on May 4, 2007 23:05:10 GMT -6
The easy thing is to cut him loose- but would you feel the same if you'd have known him for awhile? Would it be so cut and try if there was already a relationship established? You need not play him but you can have no influence on him at all if he's gone completely. What if baseball and you were this kids best chance to straighten out his life? The easy thing to do is to turn him loose the difficult thing is using the baseball hook to attempt to help this kid.
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on May 5, 2007 6:18:28 GMT -6
The easy thing is to cut him loose- but would you feel the same if you'd have known him for awhile? Would it be so cut and try if there was already a relationship established? You need not play him but you can have no influence on him at all if he's gone completely. What if baseball and you were this kids best chance to straighten out his life? The easy thing to do is to turn him loose the difficult thing is using the baseball hook to attempt to help this kid. I agree with this post 100%. Even though I don't know the complete story of this kid, I would be willing to bet that almost every other area of society has given up on this kid. We, as coaches, want to teach these young men standards and character. How can we do that if kids like this are constantly cut loose? Within our programs, we can be the most positive role model many of these kids will encounter. That is an awesome responsibility. It may be easier for us to keep the "good kids" within our program. Typically, we win with "good kids". For this kid, he may "win" by being in a program built on structure, positive work ethic, respect, responsibility, dedication, and cohesion. Where will he turn for fellowship if he is turned away? You know as well as I do, this kid is probably going away for a little while. But, you can still use this as a learning experience for your other players. Inform them that their decisions, no matter how big or small, can allow outside forces to take their most perished privileges away from them. Inform them that it is their ultimate responsibility to look out for one another. Use this to create a culture of family and togetherness because there may be another kid in your program who is yearning to belong to something. |
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Post by touchdowng on May 5, 2007 19:44:31 GMT -6
Coach,
what do YOU want to do?
You should speak with your admin about what you would like to do - with this boy - and see how they will support you. If they don't support your position - then you should have some discussion so that you are on the same page.
Ultimately, the admin must support you. Or you must agree with the admin. Either way.
You do what you feel is best for your program and I disagree with making that first impression statement. There are other ways you will be able to do that. The statement that you make on this boy should be the same one you would make on your own son if he were playing for you. That is only up to you and your personal philosophy.
Good luck!
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Post by captain31 on May 5, 2007 19:59:18 GMT -6
If you do keep him around: Be sure he knows what you mean when he's on first and you give him the 'steal' signal. lol.
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Post by CVBears on May 5, 2007 21:03:26 GMT -6
Coach, what do YOU want to do? You should speak with your admin about what you would like to do - with this boy - and see how they will support you. If they don't support your position - then you should have some discussion so that you are on the same page. Ultimately, the admin must support you. Or you must agree with the admin. Either way. You do what you feel is best for your program and I disagree with making that first impression statement. There are other ways you will be able to do that. The statement that you make on this boy should be the same one you would make on your own son if he were playing for you. That is only up to you and your personal philosophy. Good luck! I agree with this post 100%. If it was possible to agree more than 100%, I would. |
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Post by dacoachmo on May 6, 2007 7:35:32 GMT -6
hard to trust someone who steals...
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Post by touchdowng on May 6, 2007 9:33:49 GMT -6
And there lies the balance. It is all about TRUST. The questions is, "Can trust be earned back?"
Working with student/athletes means you have to hold them accountable. Certainly.
Working with student/athletes also means that there has to be civility in how you treat them when they do mess up.
The coach and admin have to sit down and define how bad this act was - Theft is bad. How have they handled theft in the past? The community will be looking for consistency. At our school, the kid would be prosecuted to the fullest. His return to any team for our school year would be highly doubtful. This doesn't mean that a coach can't reach out and try to be a conduit to helping this kid get back on his feet if this is a good kid who made a really dumb move.
I once interrogated and broke down a kid who had stolen keys from his teacher. This was at an inner-city school and he was an ESL student with no documented wrongdoings. He finally admitted that he had taken them from his teacher the day before. Once he fully realized the seriousness of his actions, he wanted to come clean. He said that he was going to come into our school but wasn't sure what he was going to take. He was suspended for the rest of the year. He was clearly remorseful (crying and embarassed) and could have easily gotten away with stealing the keys but his conscience got the best of him. He was suspended for the last 3 months of school. The school got him all of his schoolwork and he eventually graduated the next year. Luckily, this student was not an athlete so we didn't have anything besides school policy to weigh in.
What it comes down to is how trusting of an individual the leader is. It would make sense to move on without the problem kid, but what if you could keep him connected (holding him to a much stricter level of accountability as had been suggested) to give him a safe place to learn the lesson and to monitor to see if he is actually remorseful about his criminal behavior?
What if the kid could turn himself around?
However, if the kid is not remorseful and feels like he got away with something, that will surface for all to see.
Sometimes policies/consequences don't make sense when compared to other policies. As the original post points out a comparison between one failing grade (even a temporary one) and a pre-mediated burlary/theft. Those ARE at absolute different points on the spectrum of wrongdoings. Yet the punishments are potentially way out of whack.
This is a scenario is a tough one that the coach and admin will grapple with. Whatever they decide to do, there has to be closure that makes sense for the team, the school and the community. If not, this certainly will be a black eye for the program and will be a focus that will be hard to ignore during a baseball season.
I hope we can be updated on this as it unfolds.
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