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Post by jg08mhs on Jan 25, 2011 21:31:18 GMT -6
I've read this a lot lately, but didn't want to hijack any threads.
From my very first day of summer practice in middle school, the offensive and defensive line is all I have known. The thought in the above subject line has never once popped into my head. I think it has a lot to do with the great pride my line coaches took in linemen. It was almost a cocky, arrogant attitude; "While those panzie skinny kids are over there dickin' around, were gonna have some fun over here in the chutes!"; that sort of thing. We ended every indy line session with a breakdown, yelling "HOGS!" on three. We had a skinny kid bus and a lineman bus. We had spontaneous lineman lunches. Etc. I guess my point is, being a lineman was never a "bad" thing. We were the blue-collar guys on the field, and we were damn proud of it.
Just hoping to start a discussion for some other coaches' thoughts on being a lineman. Fire away!
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Post by mattharris75 on Jan 25, 2011 21:37:16 GMT -6
Our offensive line coach is like that with our O line guys. They have their own breakdown after practice (after the team breakdown), they go to dinner the night before games together, etc, etc. He instills a lot of pride in those guys for being linemen. Which, in our program is absolutely critical, since most of them are under 200 pounds and think they're tight ends.  |
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 25, 2011 21:52:00 GMT -6
it is an 11 on 11 game. should be treated as such. don't think we should "downplay" any of the positions nor should we "hype up" one group more than others. focus on how it takes every single player doing their job to the maximum on every snap.
praise each group and individual when a play is run correctly - praise all that had a hand in it. critique each group as well.
i'm not saying don't have position specific chants, rituals, etc. by any means. but, hype up the 11 on 11 aspects. it is a team game made up of 11 individual parts. continually address all of the parts throughout practice, film, training, etc. to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
coaches know the importance of the OL ... but we also know the importance of downfield blocks by receivers, great open field moves by the ball carrier, or great cuts at the LOS by a back. it takes 11 to make it go ... address the breakdown, praise the proper execution. the players, individually, we start to do the same ... and once that happens, you have one big clique chanting and hollering, and what have you ... then, you really got something.
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Post by k on Jan 25, 2011 21:52:25 GMT -6
Seems like every 5th post I post something along the same lines...
I was a 5'10 180 pound "stud" fullback in 7th grade. The next year they put in rules in our league limiting the weight of players. Put on another twenty pounds that year and was 50 pounds over the limit for ball carriers and 25 pounds over the limit to play at all.
When we started freshman year I started the first half of the season at fullback and middle linebacker. One day our HC who didn't really talk to freshmen (we were really different programs and he was a hall of fame coach who delegated the frosh program completely) called me in and said "You're going to be a linemen next year, start practicing there now. I was pissed... I wanted to be Barry Sanders... I never juked anyone out of anything...
So I pouted. Still did everything I was asked but I definitely pouted. The next week I started at Nose and Center. One game and I was sold. Had just as much fun, got to hit someone every play, and didn't have as much focus on me. Been a lineman every since and happy about it.
That said as you said I go way out of my way to make being a lineman "better" than a back as a coach. They get tshirts, they eat first in all team meals, I take them out for pizza, bring them lunch during two-a-days, get them ice cream on real hot days after practice, get them powerades for no reason. Kids who score TDs on that play hear things like "Wow featureback-Z you owe lineman-X for that touchdown."
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Post by JVD on Jan 26, 2011 5:23:14 GMT -6
The best guards I ever saw were fullbacks the year before....
The player has to put the needs of the team before himself
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Post by John Knight on Jan 26, 2011 5:54:22 GMT -6
I have been an OLine coach for most of my career and played oline in college but I am going to post something I have never posted before.
I agree with Huey.
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Post by CoachCP on Jan 26, 2011 7:34:24 GMT -6
[td][/td] it is an 11 on 11 game. should be treated as such. don't think we should "downplay" any of the positions nor should we "hype up" one group more than others. focus on how it takes every single player doing their job to the maximum on every snap. praise each group and individual when a play is run correctly - praise all that had a hand in it. critique each group as well. i'm not saying don't have position specific chants, rituals, etc. by any means. but, hype up the 11 on 11 aspects. it is a team game made up of 11 individual parts. continually address all of the parts throughout practice, film, training, etc. to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. coaches know the importance of the OL ... but we also know the importance of downfield blocks by receivers, great open field moves by the ball carrier, or great cuts at the LOS by a back. it takes 11 to make it go ... address the breakdown, praise the proper execution. the players, individually, we start to do the same ... and once that happens, you have one big clique chanting and hollering, and what have you ... then, you really got something. Typical skill position type answer...  |
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 26, 2011 8:04:26 GMT -6
Our oline coach in college used to give us money for beers
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 26, 2011 8:29:17 GMT -6
I don't think that would fly in most HS programs.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2011 10:22:19 GMT -6
The kids that cause problems when they're either playing the line or moving from another position to the line either need to fall in line or get the hell out of the program. They become cancerous in a hurry.
Generally speaking, I'm not going to waste my time selling a position to a kid. I'm already focused on selling the program and that is a part of it. I had one kid this last year throw a little temper tantrum about being moved from LB to DE. I told him that he was in the best position to help the team and the program. It was a catalytic moment that led to a lot of laziness and bad behavior out of the kid. I eventually kicked him off of the team.
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Post by runtoball on Jan 26, 2011 13:43:15 GMT -6
being a lineman was never a "bad" thing. We were the blue-collar guys on the field, and we were {censored} proud of it. Just hoping to start a discussion for some other coaches' thoughts on being a lineman. Fire away! To me this is where the problem lies. Very few kids are what I would label "blue collar". The schools that have a blue collar community are usually good on a consistent basis b/c kids will buy into the team first. I don't necessarily try to sell it as playing linemen is better, but I do try to sell the fact that regardless of what position you play, I want you to play it hard nosed. If you're a qb and have a chance to hit someone legally, you better do it. If you're running the ball, you better not step out of bounds or shy away from contact. lastly, if you're a back you better thank your linemen. Now, story time. I have a 3 year old son who is huge for his age. I'm talking average height/weight of a 5 or 6 year old. I've taught him how to get in a stance, fire out, load up and block someone. We're always telling him how much fun he will have being a pulling guard. Last night someone asks him what position he's going to play. He replies that he's going to be a quarterback. I don't have an answer as to why this happens. I guess I can blame it on ESPN like everything else. |
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Post by John Knight on Jan 26, 2011 13:44:22 GMT -6
Chicks dig QBs!
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 26, 2011 14:16:11 GMT -6
Our oline coach in college used to give us money for beers Well here's my take..yes, we do promote the whole team concept, but when it comes to recognition, being in the paper , getting the girls or what have you ....those guys get the short stick..I make sure I tell them and the team ALL the time the TEAM is only as good as the oline...I TRULY believe that...I am always giving our OLine a "little something..first to water..but not all the time..first to eat..but not all the time..I have always said I don't treat kids equal..the oline is more equal in this guys eyes |
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Post by runtoball on Jan 26, 2011 14:39:28 GMT -6
Well here's my take..yes, we do promote the whole team concept, but when it comes to recognition, being in the paper , getting the girls or what have you ....those guys get the short stick..I make sure I tell them and the team ALL the time the TEAM is only as good as the oline...I TRULY believe that...I am always giving our OLine a "little something..first to water..but not all the time..first to eat..but not all the time..I have always said I don't treat kids equal..the oline is more equal in this guys eyes +1. Well put |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2011 23:27:49 GMT -6
When you were growing up, who was the football player you wanted to be like the most? $10 says it wasn't Nate Newton.
I don't know if any kid goes into football WANTING to be one of the anonymous slabs of beef up front. You might like it once the hitting starts, but a lot of kids have to be sold on it.
Every lineman on every team I ever played on (including myself) used to always say he wanted to go out for TE the next year.
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 29, 2011 23:41:39 GMT -6
Every chubby kid wants to be a FB or TE, best thing about coaching in a spread offense now, when a kid tells me he wants to plat FB or TE , i just say oh sorry... we dont have that in our offense, you'll have to play OL instead
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Post by olcoach53 on Jan 31, 2011 10:28:30 GMT -6
I just had a kid tell me that he wanted to play TE the other day. He is going to be a sophomore and will be nothing more than a JV player. I gave him this option, start(more than likely) on the offensive line or be a third string TE. We run the spread and the TE is ALWAYS split out wide in our schemes. Same thing with young kids telling me they are going to be a FB. In our offense the FB is the leading ball-carrier and usually leading ground gainer. I dont understand the problem with kids not wanting to play offensive line. I was an offensive lineman and I loved it.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 31, 2011 11:31:59 GMT -6
I just had a kid tell me that he wanted to play TE the other day. He is going to be a sophomore and will be nothing more than a JV player. I gave him this option, start(more than likely) on the offensive line or be a third string TE. We run the spread and the TE is ALWAYS split out wide in our schemes. Same thing with young kids telling me they are going to be a FB. In our offense the FB is the leading ball-carrier and usually leading ground gainer. I dont understand the problem with kids not wanting to play offensive line. I was an offensive lineman and I loved it. They don't know they are going to love it until they actually do it and see how cool it is |
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Post by blb on Jan 31, 2011 11:47:04 GMT -6
We tell our kids if they want to start at QB-RB-WR they have to run 5.0 or better 40-yard Dash; Center-Guard-Linebacker-TE, 5.2 or better.
That makes some kids think twice about what position they can-want to play.
We also count on our lower level coaches doing good job of getting kids in positions that they project to for Varsity.
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Post by blb on Jan 31, 2011 11:49:16 GMT -6
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Post by coachbrek on Jan 31, 2011 12:29:11 GMT -6
In jr. high and high school I only played the line and loved it but secretly wanted to be a fullback.
In college I played left tackle but wanted to play guard. (more action, pulling etc.)
I just wanted to play.
I have kids literally cry when they get moved to the line. Kids are not running trap and counter trey on the play ground, they are throwing, catching, and running with the ball.
Any stiff with God given talent can run to daylight. It takes someone special to make that daylight.
All Bigger, slower, fatter, less athletic kids play the line, so when Little Johnny gets moved to the line he is crushed.
We as coaches better make the line position special, if not...well, we know what happens to teams with poor line play.
I have had very few kids not buy into and love playing on the line. I have a passion for the line, the kids buy into that sooner or later. My lineman are always set on a pedestal, much is demanded from them and they need the recognition and praise when a good job is done.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 31, 2011 12:37:38 GMT -6
I'll repeat myself from another thread.
At the HS level, kids that make a huge deal out of moving to the line can become cancerous and need to be dealt with seriously. I'm not going to sell the line to these kids because I am already selling the program; moving to the line is what's best for the team and the program. If they don't want to play line, that's fine, I'll find someone who will do it, we'll plug them in, coach them up and go from there. They'll sit their happy a--es on the bench.
We had a kid this year who was livid that we moved him from LB to DE. He became very lazy and started to distract the rest of the team. He developed a terrible attitude and I kicked him off of the team.
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Post by olcoach53 on Jan 31, 2011 13:41:24 GMT -6
In jr. high and high school I only played the line and loved it but secretly wanted to be a fullback. In college I played left tackle but wanted to play guard. (more action, pulling etc.) I just wanted to play. I have kids literally cry when they get moved to the line. Kids are not running trap and counter trey on the play ground, they are throwing, catching, and running with the ball. Any stiff with God given talent can run to daylight. It takes someone special to make that daylight.
All Bigger, slower, fatter, less athletic kids play the line, so when Little Johnny gets moved to the line he is crushed. We as coaches better make the line position special, if not...well, we know what happens to teams with poor line play. I have had very few kids not buy into and love playing on the line. I have a passion for the line, the kids buy into that sooner or later. My lineman are always set on a pedestal, much is demanded from them and they need the recognition and praise when a good job is done. Awesome quote! I like that. Might be a new motto!!!! |
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Post by runtoball on Jan 31, 2011 14:47:51 GMT -6
Until they actually do it...
Had 3 TE's we rotated in early in the year this past fall. We needed a tackle half way through the year. We ended up moving the smallest kids of the 3 down to tackle, not because he was the fattest one, but he was the best blocker. When I first told him he wasn't very happy about it. He ended being our second best linemen, and realized he loved it once he started doing it.
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Post by justryn2 on Jan 31, 2011 16:26:09 GMT -6
First, I think one of the greatest things about our sport is that there is a way for bigger, less athletic kids to play a vital role in the success of the team. Let's face it, that 230 lb, 5'10" kid that turns in a 5.4 40 is not too likely to find a spot on the basketball team. But, with a little hard work and dedication, he can play an O-Line position on the football team and be a true contributor.
All the same, the guys up front do tend to be anonymous; there are no stats for O-Line and about the only time they get any recognition on the field is when they get called for a penalty. I played O-Line my entire playing career and learned to love it. But it sure doesn't hurt to throw the big dogs a bone now and again.
If you've read "When the Game Stands Tall" about the De La Salle (CA) Spartans that had a winning streak of 151 games, you might remember that their head coach was also their offensive line coach. Personally, I do not think that is mere coincidence. When your position coach is the head coach you know your position matters. And when your O-Line knows their position matters you win a lot of football games. Just MHO.
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Post by dacoordinator on Feb 3, 2011 11:29:32 GMT -6
ha ha... for the O-linemen, its all a mentality thing. everywhere I go if its a fat O-line coach he always wears shorts in the winter. When I ask "why do he (they) have on shorts?" They all reply the same way. "It's not cold out here, and even if it is, I cant let my guys know I'm cold." Never sucked to be a lineman. Always had and have the utmost respect for them!
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Post by coachkaseysmith on Feb 4, 2011 11:09:29 GMT -6
First and foremost, I've never been anything but a lineman. Well, I was thrown in at MLB once and that didn't work out too well. I love being a lineman. I'm an OC and the OL coach at my school, I've coached backs and receivers but the OL is where the action is. My OL coach in college said it perfectly, "We're the most athletic, smartest and best looking group of guys on the field" and I treat my hoggies like that too. There is some preferential treatment but only because if the OL ain't working, the team ain't working. I told a kid this once when I told him he'd be playing on the line: "Who's the better athlete? The 150 lb running back who doesn't get tired when he runs or the 230 lb kid who runs, lifts, and fights on every play? That's the real athlete!" RB/WR/QB's take the hits, HAMMERS PASS EM OUT!!
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coachmpope
Sophomore Member
"QUIT TALKIN...LET'S PLAY BALL!"
Posts: 145
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Post by coachmpope on Feb 4, 2011 23:55:10 GMT -6
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Post by ftbll7801 on Feb 8, 2011 2:53:34 GMT -6
Guys I to was an OL all my life, and have coached pretty much every position. Now having said that, I dont think that any team was ever intimidated by the 170lb RB or QB..now a big strong group of lineman, and the heads drop almost everytime!
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