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Post by coachcb on Jan 13, 2011 17:10:48 GMT -6
We have two private schools that play a class above their enrollment and are extremely competitive every year. However, a lot of coaches b-tch about "recruiting" but it doesn't happen with these schools. Their talent levels are comparable to anyone in their divisions. They won because they're well coached.
BUT, one of them did get into trouble a few years back as they were recruiting for basketball. They're very close to several tribal reservations where basketball is taken as seriously as football is taken in Texas. People noticed that they had a roster packed full of Native kids and they started doing some digging. The kids were being recruited off of the reservation, school paid for and they were living with coaches and alumni during the week. Out of basketball season, they went home on the weekends.
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Post by pmeisel on Jan 15, 2011 13:12:20 GMT -6
Coachd, not sure, but I think peacock has it above me. I have not been active in any sports besides hunting and fishing since I moved to Mississippi a few years back, I am a transplanted Ohio boy. Get my local knowledge from the news and watercooler talk.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 15, 2011 20:24:30 GMT -6
In Mississippi there are 2 different associations completely. They can play each other during the regular season, but playoffs are separate. There are some privates that play in the public school portion (MHSAA) most are catholic schools. Some states add a multiplier during reclassification (alabama I think) so for a private school each students counts as 1.3 instead of 1 to make up for any recruiting done. I could be mistaken, but the Louisiana perception of the Mississippi Private league is that the league is extremely weak. Nothing like private schools such as John Curtis, Evangel, Parkview Baptist, the New Orleans Catholic Schools etc...
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sully
Probationary Member
Posts: 6
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Post by sully on Jan 17, 2011 13:15:49 GMT -6
norcaldiaz is right no seperate division in CA but i whole heartedly believe their needs to be. The private schools here have such huge advantages, they really need seperate divisions. Maybe keep the open division, for overall best regardless of public/private, but for the other divisions I feel that seperate divisions would be best.quote] I agree coachbdud. It has been an issue here in Ca for years and it's just getting worse. I like your idea of allowing private school powers to compete in the open only. How do we get that done?
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Post by airraider on Jan 17, 2011 13:26:19 GMT -6
In Mississippi there are 2 different associations completely. They can play each other during the regular season, but playoffs are separate. There are some privates that play in the public school portion (MHSAA) most are catholic schools. Some states add a multiplier during reclassification (alabama I think) so for a private school each students counts as 1.3 instead of 1 to make up for any recruiting done. I could be mistaken, but the Louisiana perception of the Mississippi Private league is that the league is extremely weak. Nothing like private schools such as John Curtis, Evangel, Parkview Baptist, the New Orleans Catholic Schools etc... As a long time LHSAA coach, I always had a very dim view of the Miss Private League. But, since coaching on this season, and now taking over as their HC... I have a different view. I have yet to see any of the 3A teams over in Miss, but I know for a fact that Riveroaks could compete with anyone in 2A and down with the exception of JC and Evangel. And to be honest, they might could have played with them this year with the addition of Talton. Most of your normal 1A and 2A teams in the MAIS could compete with your middle of the road 1A teams in the LHSAA or your weaker 2A schools. Sarepta could not have beaten anyone on our schedule this year. Now, you do have to throw in the fact that its completely legal to openly recruit in the MAIS... So if asked if those teams could compete IN the LHSAA... well it would depend on their ability to transition from openly recruiting to under the table recruiting such as other privates in the LHSAA.
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Post by ogre5530 on Jan 17, 2011 19:16:16 GMT -6
In Illinois we have a multiplier of 1.65, but it really doesn't matter in my opinion. The catholic schools still win despite of the multiplier. In a typical year you'll see 3 or 4 state title winners out of 8 classes. In 2010 3 private schools won out of 8 and their were 6 out of 16 that played in the title games. In most years you won't get many catholic schools in the small classes so basically a large amount of those numbers are in the large classes. We do have Wheaton-Warrenville South and Maine South that are helping "us" public schools out!! In the conference that I'm in we have a catholic school that has won like 40 straight games in the league...it's getting rediculous! That team won a state title this year and I'm sure will run the table in the conference again next year!
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Post by atowndown on Jan 19, 2011 13:46:00 GMT -6
Florida just created a rural divsion, for schools in areas with low population density. Every year the polls for the lower classes would have one public school and nine private schools in the top 10. Only took them about 20 years to fix the situation.
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Post by ticobrown on Jan 24, 2011 14:51:13 GMT -6
In New Jersey, they separate the publics and the 'non-publics' in the playoffs. The playoff format is for a lack of a better term: Stupid since there are technically 19-20 'state group champions' every year: 3-4 non-publics and 16 public school 'sectional group champions.' There are 4 groups in New Jersey, according to school size (Group 4 is the largest, Group 1 is the smallest). Non Public playoffs is easier to describe since each NP group plays down to a single state champion. Public school playoffs only declares sectional champions as "State Champs." So in Group 4, you have the: -North Jersey, Section 1, Group 4 Champion -North Jersey, Section 2, Group 4 Champion -Central Jersey, Group 4 Champion -South Jersey, Group 4 Champion Now repeat for Groups 3, 2, and 1 and there's your 20 'State Champs.' highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/970957109742859625/football-njsiaa-tournament-brackets-fall-2010/
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Post by leighty on Jan 24, 2011 15:54:58 GMT -6
Florida just created a rural divsion, for schools in areas with low population density. Every year the polls for the lower classes would have one public school and nine private schools in the top 10. Only took them about 20 years to fix the situation. The FHSAA's system is more convoluted than ever. Don't know that I'd call that a "fix."
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Post by sportsleader on Jan 25, 2011 7:43:39 GMT -6
It is amazing how much whining goes on about this and so often it is just about football. In KY there are 6 football classes, mainly due to complaints about this, but for basketball and most other sports - only 1. Private schools rarely win THE 1 and only true State Championship. You want a championship program, you have to put in the effort to build it. Period. In Texas, most private schools wouldn't last 10 minutes with the public schools. Why? Because the Texas public schools care about their football teams. Instead of all this whining, go build your program. You win with people, whether you are public or private is not the issue. It is the people! The NJ "solution" of 20 state champions really is ridiculous. They aren't even regional ... sportsleaderusa.blogspot.com/
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Post by airraider on Jan 25, 2011 7:49:38 GMT -6
[google][/google] It is amazing how much whining goes on about this and so often it is just about football. In KY there are 6 football classes, mainly due to complaints about this, but for basketball and most other sports - only 1. Private schools rarely win THE 1 and only true State Championship. You want a championship program, you have to put in the effort to build it. Period. In Texas, most private schools wouldn't last 10 minutes with the public schools. Why? Because the Texas public schools care about their football teams. Instead of all this whining, go build your program. You win with people, whether you are public or private is not the issue. It is the people! The NJ "solution" of 20 state champions really is ridiculous. They aren't even regional ... sportsleaderusa.blogspot.com/Is it really whining when its justified? In my league recruiting is legal, thus everyone can do it and there are no advantages. But in the LHSAA, several private schools have various "legal" means to recruit kids that live 50 miles out of their attendance zone. People say all the time, "well if the public schools would do their part, then kids would want to come to their school too!" Well, they cant! Publics have to have kids who LIVE in their attendance zone, and thus are limited only to those who live in that certain area. Whereas the private school's can get kids from all over! Fair is relative, but does it give an advantage? Only an idiot would say no.
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Post by sportsleader on Jan 25, 2011 8:58:05 GMT -6
airraider,
I understand your point of view but what needs to change in that situation is simply lifting that recruiting rule. That's all.
Creating all new divisions, districts and changing everything is like building another house on your property because you don't like the color blue your house is painted. Just re-paint your house.
If we keep going we'll water down the olympics too ... Ethiopia is whining because they can't beat Finland in ski jumping so we need new divisions ... Finland is whining because they can't beat Ethiopia in long-distance running so we need new divisions. Poor countries can't beat rich countries so we need new divisions ...
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Post by airraider on Jan 25, 2011 10:12:36 GMT -6
airraider, I understand your point of view but what needs to change in that situation is simply lifting that recruiting rule. That's all. Creating all new divisions, districts and changing everything is like building another house on your property because you don't like the color blue your house is painted. Just re-paint your house. If we keep going we'll water down the olympics too ... Ethiopia is whining because they can't beat Finland in ski jumping so we need new divisions ... Finland is whining because they can't beat Ethiopia in long-distance running so we need new divisions. Poor countries can't beat rich countries so we need new divisions ... Lift which recruiting rule? The one in the leauge I coach in? We are all privates and everyone is allowed to recruit. Or, the one where the LHSAA is not allowed to openly recruit? Within my leauge there are certain schools that have huge advantages in recruiting based on their location, money, and other things... but boosters from each school have a chance to make each school more or less attractive. With the other situation, the poor public schools would run dry if you allowed any of those kids to go wherever they chose to play athletics. I say split em up and then allow the privates to recruit all they want. You may end up with the best players in the state at the private school level, but they would all be competitive with one another. You would also have the rest who state in publics be equally as competitive.
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Post by phantom on Jan 25, 2011 10:19:20 GMT -6
It is amazing how much whining goes on about this and so often it is just about football. In KY there are 6 football classes, mainly due to complaints about this, but for basketball and most other sports - only 1. Private schools rarely win THE 1 and only true State Championship. You want a championship program, you have to put in the effort to build it. Period. In Texas, most private schools wouldn't last 10 minutes with the public schools. Why? Because the Texas public schools care about their football teams. Instead of all this whining, go build your program. You win with people, whether you are public or private is not the issue. It is the people! The NJ "solution" of 20 state champions really is ridiculous. They aren't even regional ... sportsleaderusa.blogspot.com/You did notice that privates and public schools do not compete together in Texas didn't you?
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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 25, 2011 20:07:20 GMT -6
a split between public and private won't fix everything...not much time goes by that public school coaches don't complain about the privates and all of the kids they are or may potentially steal from the public district down here in TN. To me, once again, I think everyone should play together with the only adjustment being a possible multiplier, particularly for the smaller schools. We sit and talk about how life isn't far and the best get the job or starting position, that's what the field is for, to figure out who the best is.
Do you separate the teams that have open enrollment from those that have strict zoning? How about those with tradition that leads to people moving in so their kids can go to school there? How about classification, how many students in a school determines an unfair advantage? Is it 500, 100, 50, 10? Should there be separate leagues for the "haves" and "have nots"?
Obviously some of that is hyperbole but if you ask around, you caould get advocates for all of those scenarios because "it just isn't fair." When it all boils down to it, I believe most kids just want to play and compete and if the ball bounces their way, they want to beat the best to be the best.
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