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Post by 33coach on Jan 4, 2011 21:48:16 GMT -6
I got interested in this topic after finding many of the "playbook repositories" I found that most of the playbooks, had no license associated with them...which makes usage tricky.
I personally write everything under the Free Documentation License. im just curious, how many of you license your playbook before you release it (whether all rights reserved, or CC..or in between)?
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 4, 2011 22:32:31 GMT -6
I'd honestly be surprised if anyone does. I have seen playbooks of mine on "playbook" websites and I didn't give anyone permission to. I assume someone i let look at sent it to the site. I wasn't too happy about it because if I send it to someone i tell them not to share it. My fault though for trusting people.
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Post by cc on Jan 4, 2011 22:44:03 GMT -6
Yeah I have written several articles, made powerpoints etc for my team and clinics I speak at...and then found them as part of a package people are selling!?? Without my permission. WTH???
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Post by julien on Jan 5, 2011 0:53:53 GMT -6
I think Ted Seay has registered his WB playbook. Don’t know how, why or when tough.
Too bad is not roaming here no more…
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Post by lochness on Jan 5, 2011 7:03:00 GMT -6
I've seen an old playbook of mine on one of these idiot sites that has 950 thousand different football documents available. For that reason, I don't send playbooks or cut-ups out to people any more. The few people I HAD sent them to were always asked to please not re-distribute what I shared.
I've also seen post "articles" I've written on this site posted on other football websites. Nobody ever asked me to do that or anything.
Oh well, welcome to the internet.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 5, 2011 7:10:16 GMT -6
I'd also like to add that if we are talking playbooks only then I really see it hard to copyright it, license it, whatever, because how many of us actually developed and invented our own offense? I can't say and don't think many other coaches can say that their playbook is 100% there own ideas. We all borrow, steal, tweak, plays and schemes from other coaches. We all "plagarize" in a way.
If it were an article or something along the lines of that then I'd be even more mad.
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Post by amikell on Jan 5, 2011 7:26:39 GMT -6
I give a lot of stuff out pretty freely, b/c I think we all ought to share. However, I do have an issue with some one selling things that I have written regardless of if its a playbook or an article.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 5, 2011 8:55:09 GMT -6
I've seen the SBV article I wrote on this site pop up around the web. Nobody has sold it, which I am thankful for.
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Post by coachjd on Jan 5, 2011 9:11:45 GMT -6
The only thing I will not email out anymore is my application packet I send out when I apply for a head job.
Last year after my interview the AD asked me if I knew "Coach X". I told him, no. He then said "your application packet is the same as this guy. I asked to see it. Almost word for word as mine. Was not real happy.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2011 9:23:49 GMT -6
Now I feel bad - nobody has "stolen" any of my stuff!
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 5, 2011 9:33:21 GMT -6
A lot of my old stuff made it into playbooks. My website has a license that says that not-for-profit use is fully permitted (i.e. if some coach wanted to include something of mine in his playbook for his kids, that's fine) but commercial use is only with permission (i.e. someone is selling my articles as part of a package or putting them on their website with advertising, etc). A lot of people are just really stupid or naive about this stuff.
Note that you can't license your actual plays or concepts or ideas, but you can the playbook itself.
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Post by brophy on Jan 5, 2011 9:37:23 GMT -6
but none of this really matters unless there is some teeth (or effort) in enforcement, right?
lets say you DID license a playbook or whatever - unless you actually prosecute offenders, it really doesn't matter (correct my ignorance)
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Post by dacoordinator on Jan 5, 2011 9:37:49 GMT -6
I mean honestly, I think it would be flattering that somebody would take your playbook and use it or put it on a website. As far as licensing your playbook, that would be pointless I think, because once one person does it, then everybodies going to do it. At that point all of the copying that we do as coaches, in using others teams or more specifically our favorite college or professional teams plays is out the door.
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Post by CoachCP on Jan 5, 2011 9:51:49 GMT -6
I think it's flattering if they give you credit. It's not flattering if they simply steal it and say they came up with it (referring to application packets, posts, or blog materials).
I'm going to steal Spread Attack's idea on that license though for my blog. Smart football right there. Har-De-Har-Har-Har.
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Post by brophy on Jan 5, 2011 9:54:11 GMT -6
Its really all based on intents I suppose.
The stuff I've seen 'packaged' that includes some of my old stuff doesn't make me upset as much as I wish they would've told me (because I would get them a better copy than they are using).
The coaching profession is about sharing and exchanging ideas....thats how we adapt. But it is a grey area when you
1) read/see something and can immediately attribute it to so-and-so (“hey I got the new mesh adjustment from Sonny Dykes”)
2) read/see something and acknowledge they got it from assimilation (“hey, I’ve seen a lot of people use this adjustment to mesh…”)
3) read/see something and attribute it to themselves (“this is my adjustment to mesh”)
#1 – is probably no problem I would assume. A general observer making an innocuous statement with what I would assume is for the benefit of others.
#2 – begins the shades of grey……is it an immediate unattributable observation or is it something that happens over time? You may have been exposed to such-and-such in 2005, but it didn’t sink in until 2009….by then, do could you really pinpoint the origins of creation (ha ha…Inception territory)?
#3 – now this could be another debatable intent. Maybe someone DOES come up with something inspired by revelation (its not like doesn’t happen), but what if the intent is to clearly rip someone off/plagiarize? What then?
What coachjd is talking about was pretty rampant in the early days of Huey, which was why so much of the download section got protected (plus copyrighted materials were shared). Its one thing to provide a template, its another thing to just copy & paste with no real work being done.
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Post by blb on Jan 5, 2011 9:59:42 GMT -6
If you get something from one person,. it's "stealing."
If you get something from two or more people, it's "research."
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Post by brophy on Jan 5, 2011 10:01:25 GMT -6
I mean honestly, I think it would be flattering that somebody would take your playbook and use it or put it on a website. I'm sure Tesla was pretty flattered by Edison
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 5, 2011 10:07:58 GMT -6
I'd also like to add that if we are talking playbooks only then I really see it hard to copyright it, license it, whatever, because how many of us actually developed and invented our own offense? I can't say and don't think many other coaches can say that their playbook is 100% there own ideas. We all borrow, steal, tweak, plays and schemes from other coaches. We all "plagarize" in a way. If it were an article or something along the lines of that then I'd be even more mad. Copyright doesn't protect the meaning or ideas of a work, only its expression. So someone else's description of your offense would not violate a copyright, but copying your words & diagrams, which you might've put considerable effort into, would violate a copyright if you chose to retain one. Even then, there are certain things that can hardly be described any other way usefully, and in those cases copyright isn't even valid; that proviso makes copyright of most playbook contents futile.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 5, 2011 10:08:50 GMT -6
The only issue I have is selling the playbooks or putting them up on a 'for profit site'.
Now, the articles are an entirely different deal. If you copy and paste something, word for word and post it somewhere, and take credit for it, you're a thief. I don't care if you're selling it or not.
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Post by lochness on Jan 5, 2011 12:01:08 GMT -6
Well, I'm all for the spirit of sharing knowledge, or otherwise I wouldn't be an active participant in this board.
But, I'm not going to forward film cuts or playbooks of our program out becuase I'm not the Head Coach...and even though I authored the playbooks, they're really not my ultimate property or responsibility (by my own self-imposed point of view).
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Post by poweriguy on Jan 5, 2011 14:49:59 GMT -6
but none of this really matters unless there is some teeth (or effort) in enforcement, right? lets say you DID license a playbook or whatever - unless you actually prosecute offenders, it really doesn't matter (correct my ignorance) Yeah, unless you are willing to hire a lawyer and have him/her file cease and desist notices to all the sites posting your stuff, it's kind of futile. But really if you do write articles, I would think to write in some kind of copyright notice, be it creative commons or US copyright . Then if you do find a gross offender you can aleast have some legal footing if you do pursue legal action. ( note: In no way am I a lawyer and this post should in no way be taken as legal advice.)
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Post by cqmiller on Jan 6, 2011 8:10:00 GMT -6
I have been more than happy to share all my stuff with coaches on this site and have only had one or two instances where I have seen other coaches posting "their stuff" which looks frighteningly similar to mine. With all of the time and effort I have put into all of it, I have started to use the "security code to edit" function in microsoft office on all of my materials just because I don't want others to be using all of my hard work and claiming it as their own.
Many of you who I have a trading relationship with or have dealt with in the past with no problems, I always disable the lock before I send it out.
I have thought about possibly finding a way to start selling some of my materials that I have created, but have not been able to find a reasonable way to do it and don't have the time to do all the research and tracking. With the economy now, any extra income would be great, but I love sharing ideas with other coaches and don't want to limit that
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 6, 2011 10:25:48 GMT -6
Check this out: creativecommons.org/Stick it on your playbook. To Brophy's point: but none of this really matters unless there is some teeth (or effort) in enforcement, right? lets say you DID license a playbook or whatever - unless you actually prosecute offenders, it really doesn't matter (correct my ignorance) This is true, but the way I look at it is this: (a) If it's no big deal and someone is stealing (happens A LOT to my stuff) then I just ignore it. (b) If people are really aggressive about it (i.e. stealing lots of stuff straight out, and giving no credit or links or anything) AND they are trying to make some money, I will send them an email. If the person said no I'd have to make a judgment. (c) Doing this though does give me slightly more protection, or at least gives me some options. Imagine if Ron Jaworski put out a book of schemes and just lifted page after page from the Brophy blog or from Coach Huey, and then that book was a NY Times bestseller, and you got zero credit and zero compensation. That would be ridiculous and unfair, and pointing to your license would give you some rights there (and it would be worth it to talk to an attorney). But on the whole, yea it probably doesn't matter too much. The internet is the wild west. My real policy is that people should feel free to use whatever of mine they want, but they should give me credit. I always try to do the same (though I'm sure I'm not perfect).
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hcffl
Sophomore Member
Winning through preparation!
Posts: 106
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Post by hcffl on Jan 6, 2011 13:53:26 GMT -6
I personally added a lot of material to the internet data base. I can't claim any of it. If anyone asked me to remove any material off my website, I did, right away. I get a little peeved when I see people selling the west coast offense material on the web or ebay. It's available for no cost at my website: www.westcoastoffense.com
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Post by Coach Vint on Jan 7, 2011 20:47:12 GMT -6
I openly share all of my clinic materials. I found someone was selling my power pointals as part of a cd. I emailed them and told them they did not have permission to sell my materials. They stopped but are back at it. It is upsetting because I give the info for free. I think using materials with your team is fine. Selling them is not. It's also not okay to take credit for the work of someone else.
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Post by dthumphr on Apr 17, 2011 20:55:23 GMT -6
A lot of big time coaches say, "we all steal ideas from each other." I think we are in a profession where it is good to share knowledge and ideas. I don't believe people's playbooks being out in the open is a big deal (unless it contains your audibles or hand signals).
With that being said I think it is very unfair to sell playbooks for a profit (even thought the profit probably isn't that much). The same goes for The System guys who are selling their stuff for a lot of money. You find all that stuff cheaper in other places over the net.
I have seen a ton of stuff online and I appreciate whoever put it up there because it has helped me grow professionally. I don't believe that knowing someone's plays will automatically make you better team. It's all about how you practice it and teach it.
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 18, 2011 9:58:53 GMT -6
but none of this really matters unless there is some teeth (or effort) in enforcement, right? lets say you DID license a playbook or whatever - unless you actually prosecute offenders, it really doesn't matter (correct my ignorance) Copyright - protection of intellectual property Licencse - right given to reproduce the property Good examples. Universities copyright their logos, then license them to be reproduced and sold, and there are limitations and restrictions on the license. You can't just copyright a playbook. There has to be something unique about it. Example: You can't just copyright a picture drawing of a mouse. Give it unique enough features, and name it "Mickey" and you can copyright "Mickey Mouse." When you own the rights, you can then license the right to reproduce the image, or parts of the image, such as the Mickey Mouse Ear hats that kids wear. Before it can be "stolen" it has to be copyrighted. Good example was the Bud Light commercial featuring the online playbook we're all familiar with. If you put it out there for public consumption without a copyright, there's no protection. If you have something copyrighted, and it's "stolen" or rather "reproduced without permission" the remedy is in civil court, not criminal, IN MOST CASES. There are exceptions. As to football. The TFS is copyrighted not due to a unique playbook, but the entire system including drills, practice plans, wristbands, play names, practice plans, etc. etc. If Tony Franklin were simply selling a playbook, he couldn't copyright it, and as we all know, there's Air Raid playbooks all over the net. (I used TF by way of example, nothing more)
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Post by lochness on Apr 18, 2011 12:19:03 GMT -6
I don't know who the bigger dumbasses are...coaches who steal stuff they didn't come up with and then sell it....or coaches who actually plunk down money and buy this stuff. Really?
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 18, 2011 13:09:00 GMT -6
I don't know who the bigger {censored} are...coaches who steal stuff they didn't come up with and then sell it....or coaches who actually plunk down money and buy this stuff. Really? You've never paid money to go to a clinic? Ever been paid to speak at one? Never put on a camp and charged a fee?
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Post by blb on Apr 18, 2011 14:27:43 GMT -6
I don't know who the bigger {censored} are...coaches who steal stuff they didn't come up with and then sell it....or coaches who actually plunk down money and buy this stuff. Really? You've never paid money to go to a clinic? Ever been paid to speak at one? Never put on a camp and charged a fee? How are any of those things the same as selling something you got from somebody else as if it was your own?
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