coachbigb
Freshmen Member
[F4:coach bigb]
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Post by coachbigb on Dec 26, 2010 11:22:05 GMT -6
I had 4 coaches last season. I was told by others that 4 was way too many for a youth football team. (I felt I needed more at times last season) I have seen teams that carried 10 coaches. I have also seen teams that only had 2. My question to everyone is how many is too many? I understand that having too many guys can cause problems, but I just want a take from others here as to how many coaches you carry during a season?
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Post by mhcoach on Dec 26, 2010 11:39:09 GMT -6
Coach B
This is a very hotly debated subject. IMHO 3 is the minimum number of coaches needed in order to function as a cohesive team. 5 is the perfect number. The real key is the knowledge of the coaches. The next question to consider is are any of the coaches daddy ballers?
Over my 33 years I have seen coaching staff's that self implode due to ego's & personalities clashing. It is the most important thing a head coach does is to manage his staff. All factors must be taken into account, Age, Personality traits, Coaching ability, & Communication. Personally I always manipulate my staff to get maximum results. It is also my duty to insure my staff understands our vision of each team.
Hope that helps.
Joe
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Post by utchuckd on Dec 26, 2010 13:29:49 GMT -6
Great post Joe. Imo 4 is pretty good and 5 is just about right. But that's assuming equal attitudes. I'd rather have 2 guys that are on the same page and working together than 4-5 guys where 2-3 of them are ego tripping or otherwise detrimental to the program.
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Post by mhcoach on Dec 26, 2010 14:00:06 GMT -6
Chuck
You are so right! When I coached in HS we had staff's from 6-10. Often there was conflicts unless the HC was strong enough to control them. I learned alot about how to handle a staff from watching mistakes.
In Youth Football too often the coaches have their own agenda & miss the big picture. I have been fortunate here in Charlotte. My coaches are technicians who really understand what we are trying to accomplish. In order to do the same drills every practice & keep things fresh it can be a daunting task.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Dec 26, 2010 16:41:58 GMT -6
A lot of this has to do with how you structure your practices, and that's going to depend partly on whether you have enough players to break practice into offense & defense, line & backfield, possibly some specialty groupings. Also it has to do with how good your coaches' attendance is; on our team this year the ACs acted as understudies for when the HC wasn't there, and for each other, as much as assistants.
Suppose you wanted to put your players thru a drill and watch their form. If you have extra eyes attached to extra heads who know what form to look for, you can run the drills more in parallel while catching mistakes and giving pointers, and less serially. That means you can get more done in the same amount of time, and there's less standing around and more incidental endurance conditioning for your players. As long as you have several people who know the purpose of a particular drill, they can do that. And if you have several people who don't all know the drill's purpose or what form to look for, if they're patient they can learn at the same time the players do, so that after a while they can help and in the meantime they're not in the way. That's assuming they're not stopping you to ask Qs.
If you had enough help, you could spare some as scouts. In a club that fields more than one team playing extramurally, you can have some coaches float between teams according to momentary need. So I don't really see a problem with 10 coaches for even a short roster children's team, if they're organized. If they're not organized, 2 is too many!
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coachbigb
Freshmen Member
[F4:coach bigb]
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Post by coachbigb on Dec 26, 2010 18:03:50 GMT -6
Coach B This is a very hotly debated subject. IMHO 3 is the minimum number of coaches needed in order to function as a cohesive team. 5 is the perfect number. The real key is the knowledge of the coaches. The next question to consider is are any of the coaches daddy ballers? Over my 33 years I have seen coaching staff's that self implode due to ego's & personalities clashing. It is the most important thing a head coach does is to manage his staff. All factors must be taken into account, Age, Personality traits, Coaching ability, & Communication. Personally I always manipulate my staff to get maximum results. It is also my duty to insure my staff understands our vision of each team. Hope that helps. Joe Thanks coach some great points as well.
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coachbigb
Freshmen Member
[F4:coach bigb]
Posts: 50
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Post by coachbigb on Dec 26, 2010 18:07:23 GMT -6
A lot of this has to do with how you structure your practices, and that's going to depend partly on whether you have enough players to break practice into offense & defense, line & backfield, possibly some specialty groupings. Also it has to do with how good your coaches' attendance is; on our team this year the ACs acted as understudies for when the HC wasn't there, and for each other, as much as assistants. Suppose you wanted to put your players thru a drill and watch their form. If you have extra eyes attached to extra heads who know what form to look for, you can run the drills more in parallel while catching mistakes and giving pointers, and less serially. That means you can get more done in the same amount of time, and there's less standing around and more incidental endurance conditioning for your players. As long as you have several people who know the purpose of a particular drill, they can do that. And if you have several people who don't all know the drill's purpose or what form to look for, if they're patient they can learn at the same time the players do, so that after a while they can help and in the meantime they're not in the way. That's assuming they're not stopping you to ask Qs. If you had enough help, you could spare some as scouts. In a club that fields more than one team playing extramurally, you can have some coaches float between teams according to momentary need. So I don't really see a problem with 10 coaches for even a short roster children's team, if they're organized. If they're not organized, 2 is too many! I never thought about sending extra coaches out for scouting. That's a very nice tip there. I had a parent go out and get film for scouting. (I also had my best friend who's a HC scout with me as well. Not everyone know how to scout so I tend to try and do most of it myself. Some nice points being made on this post thanks coaches.
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Post by coachbrek on Dec 27, 2010 12:49:03 GMT -6
I always liked a staff of one, no conflicts none of the tons and tons of bs that can come with assistants.
However, I coached with one other guy for 9 years he did the defense and running backs, he has retired from coaching for now and the last two years I picked up two coaches, one works with receivers and the other works with the d-line.
Both are great guys and good coaches, it would take someone pretty special to add another coach to the staff.
Three works out much better than I ever thought it would. Those extra set of eyes is nice to have.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 27, 2010 14:59:12 GMT -6
I had 4 coaches last season. I was told by others that 4 was way too many for a youth football team. (I felt I needed more at times last season) I have seen teams that carried 10 coaches. I have also seen teams that only had 2. My question to everyone is how many is too many? I understand that having too many guys can cause problems, but I just want a take from others here as to how many coaches you carry during a season? I think as many coaches who will listen, attend all practices, and as you can manage properly is the best amount.
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coachbigb
Freshmen Member
[F4:coach bigb]
Posts: 50
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Post by coachbigb on Dec 28, 2010 13:38:52 GMT -6
Thanks coaches. I may write an article about this subject. This should had been a poll question really. Thank you all and please keep the comments coming.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 28, 2010 19:26:41 GMT -6
I echo what many have said here in regards to quality versus quantity.
If you have 8 guys but 6 of them are basically fans with a whistle, then having that many coaches is actually counterproductive.
I'm taking over a program next year (6/7 grade team and an 8th grade team).
We are going to have a coach's clinic as soon as basketball is over so everyone is on the same page in regards to scheme and techniques.
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Post by mhcoach on Dec 28, 2010 19:30:57 GMT -6
Delta
Season before last I had 4 green coaches. I would spend 2 hours a week for over 12 weeks coaching them up. It was worth the effort. If I can help in any way let me know.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Dec 29, 2010 1:10:22 GMT -6
Season before last I had 4 green coaches. I would spend 2 hours a week for over 12 weeks coaching them up. It was worth the effort. One of the potentially good things about the NBYSA was that they had almost weekly staff meetings. Much of the time it was an excuse to eat pizza, and some of it was administrative details which were sometimes good to know, and sometimes venting of grievances, but you could also hash out questions of technique.
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Post by ojowens411 on Dec 29, 2010 5:46:30 GMT -6
Over the past three seasons I've had 4 assistants working with me. Only one has been steady. I've had that one guy who I trust with my biological kids that has been around for the long haul. He has been the assistant head coach. He implements the defense that I want to run each year. He is also a sort of compass for me. He knows me well enough to pull me to the side and say, "hey this kid isn't it or that won't work against this team." I really appreciate him for that. The other 2 guys have changed from year to year, but I always find a productive way to keep them actively engaged. In the preseason coaches meeting, I'll always ask what they think that they can teach the kids and what would they like to be able to learn more about and teach to the kids. From there a strategy is devised to help all of the members of the staff feel like they have a mission and some say so. The bottom line is in practice and games it all runs through me but my guys know that I am open to the next great idea. I said all of that to say that 5 has been a great number for us in the past few years.
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Post by FBCoachMike on Jan 12, 2011 16:46:18 GMT -6
4 assistants is what I try to go with. Usually one of those is your "go to" "right hand man" sorta guy (who runs the offense or defense). The others usually will miss a practice or two here and there. But they need to be on the same page with you, run and teach things the way you want it done, not throw you under the bus ever and not argue with you in the public eye. These guys I make sure they know how we teach blocking and tackling to the smallest detail and have a game day assignment for them, that's about all you can get out of or want out of some of them (which is generally very helpful).
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 22, 2011 13:42:12 GMT -6
5 guys that all know their job and work together is good. 5 all trying to be "genius coordinators" is not.
Last year we had 5. 3 were daddy coaches, one of which was good, and did HIS job as the DC, and let others do theirs. One was basically my asst. OL coach, he didn't try to do too much, but did what I and the HC wanted him to do. One was the Def. asst coach helper, but constantly messing with my OL during team time, telling them to do things I'd specifically coached them not to do at the direction of the HC. He also like to constantly yell "On da hop, on da hop!" when we moved from one drill to the other.
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 22, 2011 17:32:56 GMT -6
Auburn
We have rules that pretty much clear everything up. First, no Daddy is ever allowed to coach his son. Son = Lineman Dad has to coach backs. Second only one coach other then the position coach can correct a player, & that is me(HC). Third, there is no such thing as Def Asst helper. He needs a position. Even the worst coach on the staff needs an area of responsibility. Don't get me wrong I have had a few clip board holders over the years, usually someone who couldn't follow directions & gave little effort. Anyone who seriously gives time deserves to be listened to. The key is directing the coaches & leading them.
What can be really scary is the "know it all coach who played college or in the pro's" this guy will kill you every time. He will jump in drills he shouldn't, tell kids something off the wall, all the while thinking he knows how to coach. Again this is where the HC needs to step in.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 23, 2011 0:06:15 GMT -6
We have rules that pretty much clear everything up. First, no Daddy is ever allowed to coach his son. Son = Lineman Dad has to coach backs. Second only one coach other than the position coach can correct a player, & that is me(HC). Third, there is no such thing as Def Asst helper. He needs a position. Interesting. Very different from the way practices have been organized in the places I've been. I'm not sure whether that way would be better or worse. Rule #1 I like, but may not be feasible in a world where some coaches will give an effort only if coaching a relative is part of the package. Sometimes you have to give a little to get a lot. I could see rule #2 as a problem when drills are conducted in parallel or scrimmage style. Do a rep, and there are 4 players who need correcting. Why make each one wait for either the position coach or head coach to get to him? By the time the coach talked to the 2nd player who made a mistake, he's forgotten the mental image of the 3rd & 4th player's mistakes. It's faster and more reliable if 4 coaches each take one of them aside, while the coach in charge sets up the next rep with another platoon of players. But of course that's only if one coach on Tue. doesn't give a player instruction that's contradicted by another coach on Thurs. Rule 3 I would've liked as an assistant in 2007 or 2010. It's always easier to concentrate when you know your responsibility. Unfortunately on the team I was with in 2010, it was like we were all understudies for the HC, ready to stand in when he didn't show up on little or no notice. So we couldn't plan ahead.
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 23, 2011 7:58:17 GMT -6
Bob
Rule 2 is vital to maintaining order on a staff. First you need to look at how practice is organized. We don't scrimage as much as most teams. If a coach interupts Indie time then something is way wrong. Second when we are in Scrimage time each coach had better be focused on the area he coaches. This all goes back to how well the HC controls the situation. I want my drills to be run a very specific way, & will work with my coaches untill they show me they can do this. I never just send a unit to the far end of the field just to get them out of the way. Practice planning is probably the most difficult thing in youth ball, there is always issues dealing with who is late & who can't practice. Communication is paramount, I speak to my coaches everyday so when they get to field they know exactly what to expect. I also give them input to what we are going to do(Pasco Paul is always lobbying for more time). The big key is we are united as a staff what we are going to do.
Many youth teams don't have practice plans, or do the usual run for 15 minutes then scrimage. That is where failure begins. We plan out every minute, & try to squeeze in the most effective drills we can. We work on specific techniques, most importantly blocking & tackling. That is the real key to our success.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 23, 2011 15:40:28 GMT -6
We plan out every minute, & try to squeeze in the most effective drills we can. We work on specific techniques, most importantly blocking & tackling. How many players would you usually have repping at one time?
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 23, 2011 16:12:33 GMT -6
Bob
That really varies depending on the drill & what we are working on. Some drills maybe 1/2 the team at a time, some maybe 1 player at a time. Wasted motion & players standing around are worse then a disease to me. Here is how I heard it described at a clinic & what I attempt to do every practice. It's important to get the maximum number of prefect reps per drill. As far as coaches go we work hard on teaching a coach to coach on the fly. It's an art, correcting a player without stopping practice, using choice words & phrases to communicate.
When we break into Indie time there maybe 3-4 groups of players at a single time, each group is working on whatever we have planned. That means at any one time most players are in motion. Using a rapid pace practice we don't have to worry about conditioning, our players are being conditioned in drills. Ideally we are getting a rep every 15-20 seconds.
Hope that helps.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 23, 2011 19:22:16 GMT -6
That really varies depending on the drill & what we are working on. Some drills maybe 1/2 the team at a time, some maybe 1 player at a time. Wasted motion & players standing around are worse then a disease to me. Here is how I heard it described at a clinic & what I attempt to do every practice. It's important to get the maximum number of prefect reps per drill. As far as coaches go we work hard on teaching a coach to coach on the fly. It's an art, correcting a player without stopping practice, using choice words & phrases to communicate. When we break into Indie time there maybe 3-4 groups of players at a single time, each group is working on whatever we have planned. That means at any one time most players are in motion. Using a rapid pace practice we don't have to worry about conditioning, our players are being conditioned in drills. Ideally we are getting a rep every 15-20 seconds. I like that a lot. Assuming you have your avg. number of coaches when you're in indie, how many coaches per station is that?
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 23, 2011 19:44:37 GMT -6
Auburn We have rules that pretty much clear everything up. First, no Daddy is ever allowed to coach his son. Son = Lineman Dad has to coach backs. Second only one coach other then the position coach can correct a player, & that is me(HC). Third, there is no such thing as Def Asst helper. He needs a position. Even the worst coach on the staff needs an area of responsibility. Don't get me wrong I have had a few clip board holders over the years, usually someone who couldn't follow directions & gave little effort. Anyone who seriously gives time deserves to be listened to. The key is directing the coaches & leading them. What can be really scary is the "know it all coach who played college or in the pro's" this guy will kill you every time. He will jump in drills he shouldn't, tell kids something off the wall, all the while thinking he knows how to coach. Again this is where the HC needs to step in. Joe Agree on the "played college ball" daddy. In my league, daddy coaches get preference. They are usually Headers, and have way too much say. One program in our league the MAIN qualification to be HC is that you have a son on the team. In fact, you CAN'T be HC if you're not a daddy coach. How fugged up is that?
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 24, 2011 8:01:27 GMT -6
Bob
Our team is very different, we usually have 6 coaches so when we get to Indie time it's usually 2 coaches per station. Some years we get by with 3(1 per station). The key is to have coaches who understand the system & the drills. Too often when I watch other youth teams practice they run drills very ineffectively. A well run drill should short & contained not a lot of wasted motion.
Auburn
Here's an observation from the Nationals last season. Most of the better teams didn't have Daddy Ballers as coaches. There is a reason you see the same teams getting there consistantly, it's good coaching.
Joe
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 24, 2011 8:20:20 GMT -6
we usually have 6 coaches so when we get to Indie time it's usually 2 coaches per station. Some years we get by with 3(1 per station). The key is to have coaches who understand the system & the drills. If 2 coaches at a station each see things wrong, are they supposed to confer before one of them talks to the player(s)?
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 24, 2011 8:44:30 GMT -6
Bob
Here's how it's supposed to work. keeping in mind we are trying to get in a rep every 15-20 seconds. The position coach will correct on the fly, a quick correction or phrase as the drill continues. the other coach will make major corrections as the player gets back in line. If the player is really poor, he may take him aside for remedial instruction(this happens often early in the season). This way the coaches are never stepping on each others toes(that's my job).
Joe
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 24, 2011 10:32:20 GMT -6
Auburn Here's an observation from the Nationals last season. Most of the better teams didn't have Daddy Ballers as coaches. There is a reason you see the same teams getting there consistantly, it's good coaching. Joe Preachin' to the choir bud! But, where I coach...where I have the opportunity to coach, Daddy ball coaches rule. The only team not headed by a daddy ball coach is my team, and my header runs the league. And he once had kids playing, and just stayed on. I'm pretty sure I'm the only non daddy coach.
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 24, 2011 12:07:58 GMT -6
Auburn
It's a sad but true fact. Most leagues are run that way, the exceptions being for the most part in large cities. Even still there are ways around it. The season before last we had a Daddy Baller as our DC, great guy, even better friend. 2 nites a week for 12 weeks he was at my house learning our D. His son was a great LB for us & we wouldn't let him coach his son. Paul & I did. It was difficult for him to do but he did it. He really put in the time & worked hard. Not all Daddy Ballers are willing to make a sacrifice.
Joe
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 24, 2011 18:19:50 GMT -6
Auburn It's a sad but true fact. Most leagues are run that way, the exceptions being for the most part in large cities. Even still there are ways around it. The season before last we had a Daddy Baller as our DC, great guy, even better friend. 2 nites a week for 12 weeks he was at my house learning our D. His son was a great LB for us & we wouldn't let him coach his son. Paul & I did. It was difficult for him to do but he did it. He really put in the time & worked hard. Not all Daddy Ballers are willing to make a sacrifice. Joe Coach, We had one last year. Actually a grandfather of a player. He was a TE/DE. He and my RT made our offense go. The kid wasn't what you'd call athletic, but he had some size, AND he'd do exactly as he was coached, and he had some football smarts. My RT was a good Tackle...great size, good attitude, and moved ok. He was a classic "teddy bear OL", but he was coachable. Very stiff, but could move well enough. He could block most anybody he encountered one on one. Our GOD scheme lead to a lot of double teams with him and this TE who could also block very well, BUT I could change the blocking scheme between the RT and TE in a game if need be, and both could handle it on the fly. We made a living running off their blocking. Grandaddy coach never interfered on offense, or with his grandson. Grandaddy ran the defense, and it worked well. Very intense guy that kept his emotions in check, did what the header said, but you could tell when he was thinking "the old man doesn't have a clue" when the HC gave him orders...but he did it as ordered.
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 24, 2011 19:28:53 GMT -6
I think we can make a distinction between daddy ballers and football cpaches who happen to have a son on the team. My QB's dad helps out from time to time when his work permits, and once had to coach a game for us (me and the other coach at the time are both military, we were a little busy with that international crisis in Libya...) and he did a fine job. He coaches up his son when he can, but it's always fundamentals and in line with what our team is trying to do. I would never refer to him as a "daddy baller," since to me that is a pejorative. Conversely, I played on a team (team is a generous word) where one coach just played a couple of kids and his friends both ways, all the time, no matter what. It wasn't his actual son, but he was showing all the attributes of a daddy baller. I would say some of the attributes of daddy balling are:
Central Casting - drawing your depth chart according to what positions kids "look" like they should play
Hero Offense - an offense built around 1 or a few players, often contrary to good sense
"Block the guy in front of you"
Defense built around lots of alignments, which may or may not have any subsequent fits or logic.
To reference the original question, these are what you desperately must avoid.
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