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Post by samadams on Dec 13, 2010 18:58:39 GMT -6
I did a search and came up empty on this topic. I will be interviewing for a job soon and one of the issues at the school is participation. From what I understand, the numbers aren't terrible, but there have been some kids quitting the last couple of seasons that have been contributers in the past. Any ideas?
Thanks
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Post by davishfc on Dec 13, 2010 20:29:10 GMT -6
Christmas Cards...
I'm making them right now. Wish the kids and their families a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Add something motivational/football-related and sign it. They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
Of course there are other things you can do as well within the recruiting aspect. This was just ironic that this thread got started while I was working on my cards. I'll chime again later on this topic. I was taking a break and now I have to get back to work.
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Post by wedgesneedbusting on Dec 13, 2010 20:42:46 GMT -6
sounds like this is the reason they are looking for a new coach? Bring the fun back to the team. Dont be one of those football coaches who is constantly verbally abusing players. Know the game you are coaching and constantly be giving feedback to each and every player.
We could give more useful advice if we knew why these kids are quitting? Any info on that?
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Post by 19delta on Dec 13, 2010 22:20:49 GMT -6
Get better and start winning.
Head coach of a local team around here is always poor-mouthing his team (we don't have enough kids out for football, we are always hurt, we are too small, etc, etc) and making excuses for why they suck. His big thing now is a recruiting drive...he has all of these schemes to get new kids to play next year. Problem is, the bad tackling, crappy blocking, and jaw-droppingly bad sideline management will remain and they won't be able to hold on to any of the new kids they are able to get to come out because they are still aren't going to be competitive.
What I would do is to stress player development...stress the fact that you will coach up the kids you currently have...teach those kids to compete, start winning some games, and the recruiting will take care of itself.
I've never really seen any good programs complain about having low numbers...it's usually programs that have been bad for a long time that have low participation.
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Post by superpower on Dec 14, 2010 5:50:15 GMT -6
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Post by samadams on Dec 14, 2010 9:32:55 GMT -6
sounds like this is the reason they are looking for a new coach? Bring the fun back to the team. Dont be one of those football coaches who is constantly verbally abusing players. Know the game you are coaching and constantly be giving feedback to each and every player. We could give more useful advice if we knew why these kids are quitting? Any info on that? My best guess is lack of fun and winning from what I have gathered.
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Post by blb on Dec 14, 2010 9:56:06 GMT -6
sam is correct. Kids will play if they think they'll enjoy it and have a chance to be successful.
However, participation or numbers are for ADs. So long as you have enough kids to provide quality depth and productive practices, you're fine.
The rest are just more (and two parents each) sitting in the back of the bus complaining about not playing.
We want to be Positive but Demanding. Motivate kids by coaching 'em in drills, not always yelling or screaming. Give 'em a reason to keep coming back, don't run anybody off.
Convince them that if they do what we tell them to, we will win.
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Post by offcoach1 on Dec 15, 2010 9:46:23 GMT -6
I have a freind that told me his principal asked for a paln to increase turnout. He has been there three years and kids have quit and stopped coming out. What are ideas everyone does or an idea or tow so I can help him out.
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Post by snakeyes on Dec 15, 2010 13:22:28 GMT -6
I believe if you be yourself and treat athletes with respect, then they will respect you and will work to meet your expectations.
We have a basketball coach in my high school that constantly degrades the same athletes that play for me in football...He also wants to be viewed as a hard a$$. Well the kids hate him and only the ones that absolutely love bball will play for him. I believe his mentality is "what can they do for me"...whereas my mentality is what can I do for them."
My approach is...I joke with the kids in the hallways, I have fun with them as much as possible, I ask them how they are doing in school (show them that I care about them...not just what when they are on the football field). Don't get me wrong, I am demanding...I have high expectation both in season and out, but when I get onto them, they know it's because I care and want to see THEM succeed!
So, how do you improve numbers...not sure if you can get a ton more kids...but if you are good to the ones that are on the team, the word will get out that you are a good person to play for. Then be personable...work the hallways, talk with kids, joke with them, then see if they will play football. BUT, you better have your stuff wired tight...you better know football...you better put in the time to put them in a position to win...NOBODY has fun losing! If you want them to bust their butts for you, you better be busting your butt for them!!!
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Post by jml on Dec 15, 2010 20:37:24 GMT -6
We get the same thing. I think it has to do with expectations being raises, but I would think people would want to be part of a winner. I don't know about getting better and winning. The 2 programs I've coached in our numbers dropped every year after we made the playoffs. Damnest thing I've ever seen.
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Post by blb on Dec 15, 2010 20:44:22 GMT -6
Kids in the "Me" generation want to be part of a winner if they think they have a chance to be successful individually and have fun first.
Team success is a secondary priority.
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Post by Defcord on Dec 15, 2010 20:57:29 GMT -6
First I think kids want high expecations and want to know that they are in a program that will set them up for success. I have been an assistant baseball and football coach at three different schools. At one of the schools the expectations were high and so were the numbers. At the other two schools offseason expecations were a joke and the numbers were awful.
I am currenlty a head baseball coach at my second school. Both schools I have been at have had terrible programs. The first school I was at was my first experience as a head coach and I was a DICK-TATOR. I told kids it was my way or the highway. In three years there we built our numbers but we found that the relationships with the kids were not what we wanted. I made too many first time head coaching mistakes in having to have my way. The team slowly got better but we still never achieved our full potential. The first year we would have 4-5 kids in a workout session by the last year we had around 12-15 for offseason conditioning. During season we went from 19 to 36 after cuts. Not bad for baseball.
However, when I took the head coaching job I am at now I decided I was going to try to keep high expectations but also try to be more positive. We did several things that I really felt helped build our numbers.
First we put in a T-Shirt Incentive: After a player makes ten consecutive workouts he gets a free T-Shirt
Second once a month we have a team get together (bowling, chips and salsa, movie, whatever) Anybody that has been at at least one workout is welcome.
Third we do weekly awards. We are the Archers so we do what we call an "Arrow Award" to play on the theme. The arrow award is given each Monday to two players who made 4 out of 4 workouts the previous week and "Set themselves apart" Myself and my assistant both chose a player
Fourth we made a huge chart with each workout opportunity and each students name each time they are there they get a star sticker put in that opportunities box...trust me if we miss a sticker they know it! They love it
Fifth we work hard and we work on a plan so our kids feel like they are being put in a situation to improve
Sixth we love up on each other...I make it a point as we come in from our last exercise whether its weights or agilities or conditioning or whatever to remind them to love up on each other on the way in. I want our team to feel special and we do a lot to make this happen.
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Post by jlenwood on Dec 15, 2010 21:26:32 GMT -6
We are seeing this at our school in basketball this year. New coach comes in with the "my way or the highway" attitude, and several of the best players took the highway.
What I think coaches fail to recognize in a lot of the low number situations is just how many options a kid has these days other than playing a particular sport. Building a program, weight room, winning etc are all well and good, but the reality is that a kid is still weighing their "risk (hard work)" / "reward (playing time)" for that sport.
Take any sport and you will have a group of kids who are passionate abut that sport and would play if Hitler were the coach. The next group of kids is the ones who are still good athletes, but they are playing for the fun of it. Take away the fun, the kid goes away. What you are left with is the passionate kids and the ones who are not as good athletes, but still want to be a part of a team.
I'm not saying it has to be a picnic, because kids will work hard if there is an honest chance at playing time, but it can't be a boot camp that chases away the players.
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Post by pmeisel on Dec 16, 2010 8:39:56 GMT -6
Quote: "My approach is...I joke with the kids in the hallways, I have fun with them as much as possible, I ask them how they are doing in school (show them that I care about them...not just what when they are on the football field). Don't get me wrong, I am demanding...I have high expectation both in season and out, but when I get onto them, they know it's because I care and want to see THEM succeed!"
The best two coaches I ever saw at increasing participation happened to be wrestling coaches, and that's what they did. They treated the freshman and the kids who were not going to be standouts with the same attention and respect they treated the standouts with, and they were promoting team cohesion and confidence all the time. The kids reacted to it, they could tell it was for real.
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Post by runtoball on Dec 16, 2010 9:36:36 GMT -6
Best advice I ever heard was to convince to come to weights for two weeks in the spring. If they don't like it, they don't have to play. No hard feelings, I'll still treat you the same, and actually have more respect for you for actually trying it. If you find you enjoy it, then you can continue to come and play in the fall.
A lot of kids will get in the weight room and find that they enjoy pushing themselves to get better. They also find they enjoy being part of a team. Some of them may have a bad home life and it's the first time they've ever been part of something, or had someone care if they are there or not. A lot of that counts on the fact that you pay attention to the kid when he shows up and treat him just like everyone else.
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arbond
Sophomore Member
No "philosophy". Just play.
Posts: 103
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Post by arbond on Dec 16, 2010 11:34:46 GMT -6
Sounds to me like he needs to step down. I mean really, kids are quitting - and not coming out? Apparently he is not creating a program that induces kids to participate. All this has happened since he began right?
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Post by snakeyes on Dec 16, 2010 14:38:05 GMT -6
My greatest success story as a coach came this year in practice. We were about half way through our season and were getting after it in practice one day. One of my players was just going through the motions and I told him to pick it up...he knodded. About 10 minutes later I noticed again he was avoiding getting into a drill we were doing (now my blood is boiling), but instead of going off on him (because I knew he didn't have a great home life) I gave the kids a short water break and called him over to me. I asked him what was going on, he hesitated and said "nothing." I told him I knew better and again asked him why he wasn't busting his {censored} today...he then told me he hadn't eaten anything in 24 hours!
I thought to myself...well {censored}, I wouldn't be able to practice hard if I was him either! I grabbed a coach, told him to run to McDonalds and get him some food. The kid ate, and then had the energy to bust his {censored} for me! But the main thing that kid and the rest of the team learned about me that day...is that my staff and I truely care about them!
Now back to the topic...how does this story help with participation? Every kid in my school knows that my staff and I truely care about them and want to see them succeed; not just in football, but in life! Do we have great numbers? No. But we have good enough numbers to be VERY competitive...this year's team went 10-1 and would run through walls for my coaching staff.
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Post by offcoach1 on Dec 16, 2010 23:31:00 GMT -6
Yeah I thik he needs to move up to college great background former player but doesn't mesh well with HS kids
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Post by ajreaper on Dec 17, 2010 10:18:19 GMT -6
Depends why they are quitting and what the program was like before he arrived. As much as kids want to win they often do not want to have anything to do with those things that are required to compete and win and God forbid someone wants to hold them accountable and have high expectations- it would seem to me if its about how kids are treated in general the principle would simply fire him or the parents would have ran him off. That being said if you cannot get buy in from your incoming classes while the less inspired upperclassmen graduate or weed themselves out of the picture it may be time to move on for sure.
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Post by superpower on Dec 17, 2010 13:13:35 GMT -6
I agree with ajreaper on this. It seems to me that some high school fb programs are designed to be about participation (Let's get as many kids as possible out for fb.) while others are about competition (Let's do what it takes to be the best.). It would be nice if we could have the best of both worlds, but as ajreaper pointed out, not all high school kids are willing to do what it takes to be competitive. IMO, football is not for everyone. Could having some kids quit or not go out for the team actually benefit a competitive team?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 21:30:43 GMT -6
Yeah, sometimes it just depends on who those kids are that quit or decided not to come out. This past fall, we had about 5O out and at first I was disappointed because I thought we'd be in the 6O-65 range, which for a school our size, isn't bad. But, when I thought about who those extra 1O-15 would have been, I realized that given the atttudes and effort they would have brought to the table, we were better off without them!
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Post by offcoach1 on Dec 18, 2010 23:58:52 GMT -6
I agree with everything the school is small around 450 used to have 45-60 in program now has around 35 but finished the season with 22-25 and cancelled the JV season. I think a change needs to be made but what can spark the interest untill the winning and committment starts to happen?
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Post by JVD on Dec 20, 2010 16:35:32 GMT -6
The caring part is it.
Talk with those kids where they work (I BS'd with our stud LB all summer at the grocery store...made the fall a lot easier)
Give them a fist pound after a basketball game.
Catch one of their baseball games in the summer.
Let them know you are more than just a football coach.... All of our guys are more than just football players.
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Post by wgarrow on Dec 22, 2010 22:06:05 GMT -6
I listened to a coach from Jesuit HS in Portland, where he's won some state titles and had alot of success. He said the biggest thing thats helped them is sending letters. He mails a letter each month to each kid on his team (he has over 70 players) and it is usually a generic letter. However, at the beginning or end of each letter, he mentions something specific about each kid and an encouraging word. He also finds ways to get parents on board, by mentioning important events that month (like mothers day) and encourages his kids to do something nice for that family member. Not only does it send the right message to the kid that he cares about them, but it gets the parents to really support the program as well because they see the mention of doing something nice for them. What mom doesn't love a coach who reminds his player to tell his mom he loves her on mothers day?
On another topic, although unrelated, he also hosts what he calls a "mom's night" each year, where he brings the moms in. He walks them through the weight room, shows them the locker rooms, shows them the film room, explains the team philosophies to them, and even gives them some brief & basic x's and o's talk. Makes the mom's feel special, gives them insight into what their sons are going through each day, and also helps them understand the game a little better. Most of them just want their son to be safe and happy in football, and by doing this, he says he gets a ton of support from the parents as they feel better about where their child is each day for 3 hours after school.
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Post by snakeyes on Jan 4, 2011 7:51:16 GMT -6
I think all the coaches' bring up key points in building and improving upon a "down" football program.
1. You must recruit the halls...you do this by showing interest in the kids in your school (not just in football). Treat them with respect. You must also study the game, so that you are not being out-coached every week.
2. You must build the support of parents and the community.
3. You must get kids in the weight room...be careful not to run off kids that have to work in the off-season.
4. IMO, its not about the number of kids you have out...but how many of the kids that are not out would have helped you? Then find out why those kids didn't go out.
5. Lastly, you must WIN! No sport is fun if you are getting your butts kicked week in and week out.
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Post by dacoordinator on Jan 6, 2011 11:49:56 GMT -6
My best guess would be to be friendly in the hallway get to know some of the athletes in the school, through other coaches. I mean the best quote I have seen in reference to this was "they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." Kids want to feel as if they belong and if the person that will be in charge of them shows that they care about their well being, they will have more interest in doing the things asked of them.
By speaking to students in the hallways and stopping to have a conversation with them from time to time, asking are they staying out of trouble, things at home going, etc.... You will become appealing to them, because you are showing them interest. Now I'm not saying be a politician and shake everybody's hand and kiss all babies.. but it'll help.
Once you get them out there continue to do the things you did to get them to participate. As much as I hate to admit it women have it down pat when they say "whatever you did to get me, you better do to keep me." Its so true, because now it doesn't seem as if you put on a show just to get them out there.
Getting your numbers up is sometimes a tricky game to play but if you do it right it can be beneficial.
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Post by ajreaper on Jan 11, 2011 12:42:27 GMT -6
I don't know about getting better and winning. The 2 programs I've coached in our numbers dropped every year after we made the playoffs. Damnest thing I've ever seen. Ditto- don't assume winning will mean more bodies cause that just ain't so.
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