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Post by dirtybird13 on Dec 7, 2010 8:00:09 GMT -6
Read this one, I think it's a pretty safe guess that most of you have experienced something along these lines. None the less, it was quite interesting to see this in the Atlanta Journal Constitution this morning. www.ajc.com/sports/high-school/hover-parents-often-irk-768165.html "A high school football coach in Georgia was asked by members of his school's booster club if they could review game film and make suggestions. The coach declined. Another Georgia coach was accused by a mother of costing her son a scholarship to an SEC school because the coach demoted him to second string. The player was 5-foot-4 and had no offers. Another was included on a prayer list by a Baptist women’s circle. The women prayed that he would be fired."
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 7, 2010 8:46:36 GMT -6
First I laughed, then I cried.
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 7, 2010 8:48:17 GMT -6
"Of 147 Georgia head coaches who responded to the e-mail questionnaire, 71 percent said that issues with parents create significant problems for them. "
The other 29% weren't convinced the questionnaire respondents would remain anonymous
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 7, 2010 8:50:09 GMT -6
Also, if any coach is asked a question about the parents...no matter what the situation, this is the response you give. Every time.
‘‘I don’t have big problems with our parents,’’ Landmark Christian coach Kenny Dallas said. “In fact, I think our parents are probably the strength of our school.’’
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Post by dirtybird13 on Dec 7, 2010 8:50:27 GMT -6
"Of 147 Georgia head coaches who responded to the e-mail questionnaire, 71 percent said that issues with parents create significant problems for them. " The other 29% weren't convinced the questionnaire respondents would remain anonymous Good point... I would hesitate to speak my mind on some of these matters... Fearing to give the detractors "bulletin board material."
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Post by coachcb on Dec 7, 2010 9:17:46 GMT -6
Honestly, the parents are only going to bother you as much as you let them. If you're doing your best job, treating the kids with respect and being fair then none of the parents have a viable gripe. Anything else that comes down the pipeline is just pathetic and funnier than h-ll, at least IMO.
If the administration is buying in the parents' b.s., then it's time to move on.
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Post by coachbuck on Dec 7, 2010 9:25:40 GMT -6
Let me play devils advocate. What if the parents have a legitimate complaint and what would you coaches consider a legitimate complaint? Really curious on this one. Im a coach and also a parent and we have some real issues with our program but dont want to step out of bounds. The last 15 years this program has won an average of 3 wins a season. Im a first year freshman coach. I dont pretend to know more Xs and Os than the varsity guys. On a side note my freshman team was 10-0 this season. First freshman team in school history to do this. They are a very talented group and I was lucky to get to coach them.
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Post by phantom on Dec 7, 2010 9:54:13 GMT -6
Let me play devils advocate. What if the parents have a legitimate complaint and what would you coaches consider a legitimate complaint? Really curious on this one. Im a coach and also a parent and we have some real issues with our program but dont want to step out of bounds. The last 15 years this program has won an average of 3 wins a season. Im a first year freshman coach. I dont pretend to know more Xs and Os than the varsity guys. On a side note my freshman team was 10-0 this season. First freshman team in school history to do this. They are a very talented group and I was lucky to get to coach them. This is a valid point, I think. I certainly think that anytime that you receive criticism you should reflect on whether there's something to it. Just because somebody's an a$$hole doesn't mean that he's wrong.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 7, 2010 10:23:40 GMT -6
We have a mandatory parent’s mtg each summer; in fact we have it on two days so everyone can make it, where we make some very clear points to the parents. First is we tell them we do not discus playing time with parents. We also do not discus scheme, plays, etc like that with them. Our HC tells them we don't come into your house and criticize you for how you cook your meals or how you run your home so don't do the same to us.
As far as recruiting I get up and make it very clear to everyone that we will do our best to get you into a college program if you want to play at the next level. I also stress that it is not up to us to get a scholarship for the player, that’s what the college coaches determine. We do our best to promote them but it is not up to us who gets what offers. I am very blunt with them and tell the truth when it comes to this issue just so everyone seems to get the point.
I think having clear expectations and defined boundaries can help a lot in these situations. Now of course there is always that one parent who tries to push it but more often than not if people know what you expect and you stick with it those problems should fade away.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 7, 2010 10:49:43 GMT -6
Let me play devils advocate. What if the parents have a legitimate complaint and what would you coaches consider a legitimate complaint? Really curious on this one. Im a coach and also a parent and we have some real issues with our program but dont want to step out of bounds. The last 15 years this program has won an average of 3 wins a season. Im a first year freshman coach. I dont pretend to know more Xs and Os than the varsity guys. On a side note my freshman team was 10-0 this season. First freshman team in school history to do this. They are a very talented group and I was lucky to get to coach them. That is a good point but it all relative to the particular gripe. If a parent is upset because I've done something unprofessional (swearing at the players, berating them, etc..) then I'm going to listen and apologize profusely. However, I don't listen to parents outside of that because of the WAY they gripe. If we're struggling on defense, I don't here complaints about how poorly we tackled, shed or covered, it's all about how dumb we are for not playing a ____ defense. The same thing on offense; it's never about the fundamentals, it's about the scheme. Or it's about their kid; we struggle because Johnny isn't starting. If a parent approached me and lit into me about how poorly we tackle/shed/block (etc), I would most certainly listen.
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Post by runtoball on Dec 7, 2010 12:00:30 GMT -6
Tim Murphy had a good pamphlet he sends out each spring to parents. Part of it stated things it's ok to discuss with parents: 1. changes in your son's behavior 2. how to improve your son, and things not to discuss: 1. playing time, 2. scheme, 3. another athlete that is not your son. It also pointed out not to talk to a coach after a game or practice as they can be emotional times. So if your son felt he was being treated unfairly he could talk to his position coach/head coach. if that didn't solve it they could set up a meeting to talk to the coach.
When I was first getting into coaching an older coach told me he tells parents this every spring in his parent meeting. He was talking about how a lot of parents don't think you do any prep work, that you just show up on Friday night and decide what to do during the game. So he tells them "don't ask me why your son is not playing. he's not playing b/c we feel someone else is performing better. Don't ask me why I called a play. I called it because I felt it gave us the best chance to win the game. None of your paychecks depend on what happens on the field, mine does. I don't want to have to go home and tell my wife we have to move. So trust me that I am not just putting a kid on the field, or calling a play for kicks, I'm doing it because it gives us the best chance to win." He said after he tells parents that that no one will approach him all year, good or bad. Granted it helps that he is a big, gruff, person.
I can understand the legitimate complaint deal brought up by coachbuck. This coming year we are going to have two senior TE's that are both 6'3" and can catch the ball. Normally, we don't throw the ball very much, but probably will more next year because of those two. If we didn't, I would have a hard time justifying to their parents why we weren't getting the ball to them when they give us a good chance to move the ball.
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Post by slseahawkfootball on Dec 7, 2010 12:47:21 GMT -6
Our program uses a weekly "Coach's Corner" meeting with parents to help build a strong relationship between our staff and our parents. While it does not eliminate all of the crazies, it does win a lot of positive support between the parents and players.
During the course of a game, parents will always think that we are idiots on any given play, but this is the natural course of human emotions while watching a sporting event. I have found that hosting a weekly meeting - open to all - has created less hover parents. The Coach's Corner meeting is not very well attended, but simply knowing that they have the possibility to spend an hour with our HC and some assistants will defuse the perception that we want to be isolated (or are afraid) of parents.
CC works like this. Every Tuesday night, about an hour after the end of scheduled practice, we open up a large classroom for Coach's Corner. I send out a weekly invite to our email database reminding parents of the opportunity to attend. We open with a brief statement about the previous week's performance, and then we proceed to show about 20-25 minutes of film from our previous game. We point out the outstanding things we did, as well as things that we did poorly. At the conclusion of showing our previous game film, we will talk about our focus points of development (correcting our weak areas) that we are targeting during practice. Then we move on to talk about our upcoming opponent. After a short overview, we show about one half from one of the scout films we received. At the end, we open it up for question and answer.
In six years of hosting a CC each week, I have never had a rude question. We've had some direct questions, but it's good to get those out in the open. CC provides an outlet for the parents who have the "hover" need inside of them, but it has never been a forum for discontent or argumentative comments. I have never had a parent suggest a different scheme or personnel changes, etc. In fact, when the one or two crazies do raise up and try to spread discontent among the parents, they are often shot down before it ever gets back to us. We have advocates sitting in the stands.
I had one crazy this year come after me for anything he could think of - including sending a "reply all" email to our whole database criticizing me after our worst loss of the season. Instead of gaining any support, 22 parents replied to him more harshly than I would be allowed, and supported our coaching staff. I think that a large reason for this support was the transparency and opportunity for parents to feel that they could connect with us on a weekly basis.
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by juice10 on Dec 7, 2010 13:03:53 GMT -6
Someone beat me to the punch, but I also have a meeting with the parents prior to the season. I show a video by Bruce Brown about the role of parents in sports. By no means is this an end all, but I do believe it has helped. I lay out all of my expectations etc on that night so every parent is informed.
My biggest message is that we are all trying to work together to for one thing, and that is their child. As professionals we need to do what we can to the best of our ability to teach these student/athletes what we can about life and football. Any talk at the dinner table about what the staff is doing wrong is a detriment to our football program. In your sons eyes, whether you as parents agree with our scheme and program, we should be held at a high and respectable level. As soon as this is brought up by parents, we no longer are on the same page and no longer have the goal in mind.
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Post by runtoball on Dec 7, 2010 14:26:13 GMT -6
One more thing that is a negative of football, there are 25 seconds between every play for a parent to dissect what you just did. That doesn't happen in basketball. Maybe if we all went to the hurry up no huddle it would cut down on that.
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Post by dubber on Dec 7, 2010 20:39:05 GMT -6
Last line of the article:
“It’s gotten to the point that parents are just going to complain,’’ Owens said. “If you’re going to coach, you better be thick-skinned and just deal with it.’’
Good point.
Makes me LOVE my situation.
Part of my affinity for our head coach is he takes all this on........I just send complainers to him and end the discussion.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 8, 2010 7:49:25 GMT -6
I do have to admit that the parents around here have been very supportive of our efforts to revive the program. I thought that they were going to be far more difficult; we haven't had any issues at all. And, that's surprising given how poorly we did this year.
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pb77
Sophomore Member
Posts: 122
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Post by pb77 on Dec 8, 2010 10:22:44 GMT -6
Regardless of the school you're going to have Parents who "hover" or gonna be a pain in the ass. You're also are gonna have some that are GREAT who you wish had 15 kids all in the grade one after another. The best policy is just be honest with them and keep documentation on everything. Probably most important is keep the same rules for everyone in regards to when kids lose playing time or does extra conditioning for violating a team rule.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 8, 2010 10:56:58 GMT -6
Honestly, there's a lot of ways to CYA if you choose to work in a program with difficult parents. If you go along with all of the things that are described above and the parents are still a pain, take it to the next level.
1. It's always a good idea to get film of practice for a lot of reasons. Some of them are obvious but there are other advantages that coaches forget about. If a parent issue gets to the point where you need to meet with them, just toss in the film from practice (just make sure the player isn't there).
"Here's Johnny on practice film and here are the two dozen reasons why he doesn't play."
2. Have the entire staff sit in on the parent meeting (again, without the player). Have each coach provide their two cents (positive and negative) with respect to the situation. Show mom and dad that there's 4-5 coaches that deal with their son on the practice field every day. It'll either give them a healthy dose of reality or make them uncomfortable enough to keep their traps shut.
These are kind of "Nuke 'Em" solutions but they're really effective when you've got those parents that just won't go away.
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Post by fballcoachg on Dec 8, 2010 18:20:29 GMT -6
coachcb,
I'm not trying to be a bada$$ but why go that far? The AD and administration hired us to be coaches and with that comes some sort of understanding that we are going to make the best personell decisions for the program. If you do that for one parent then you have set a precedent that you have to do it for every parent. Tell them you are doing everything you can to make the program the best it can be and right now their son is not a starter. They will never like it but that's some peoples nature, bias is bias. Also, what if on your practice tape another kid is screwing up and they say something about that. I really just think it is more hassle then it would ever be worth in the end. Set the tone early, stick to it, and if they have an issue let the peanut gallery sing ,it's part of the gig unfortunately.
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Post by jlenwood on Dec 8, 2010 18:42:43 GMT -6
I like the idea of the coaches corner. Seems like a great way to get the parents to see what goes in to running a program. Do you still hear grumbling from the locals even after the meetings?
We had a kid play for the first time one year, big lazy kid, no effort at practice. During our first game, the kids mom is screaming from the grandstands "Put 72 in, he's the best player you got!" "Why isn't 72 in?!" The HC coach finally calls the kid over and tells him to go tell his mom that as soon as he puts in some effort and quits being lazy at practice he can play. The kid goes to stands and word for word tells his mom that. She hesitates a few seconds and just says, "OK" , and goes and sets down. We never heard from her again.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 9, 2010 7:02:15 GMT -6
Honestly, there's a lot of ways to CYA if you choose to work in a program with difficult parents. If you go along with all of the things that are described above and the parents are still a pain, take it to the next level. 1. It's always a good idea to get film of practice for a lot of reasons. Some of them are obvious but there are other advantages that coaches forget about. If a parent issue gets to the point where you need to meet with them, just toss in the film from practice (just make sure the player isn't there). "Here's Johnny on practice film and here are the two dozen reasons why he doesn't play." 2. Have the entire staff sit in on the parent meeting (again, without the player). Have each coach provide their two cents (positive and negative) with respect to the situation. Show mom and dad that there's 4-5 coaches that deal with their son on the practice field every day. It'll either give them a healthy dose of reality or make them uncomfortable enough to keep their traps shut. These are kind of "Nuke 'Em" solutions but they're really effective when you've got those parents that just won't go away. Only disagree with one part. I think the athlete SHOULD be in the meeting. In fact, I wouldn't meet with a parent WITHOUT the athlete being present.
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Post by slseahawkfootball on Dec 9, 2010 8:28:47 GMT -6
Agree totally. I think you have to have the athlete present. You can be honest in evaluating the player's ability and attitude without it turning personal or negative. Plus this helps eliminate the "communication lapses" which is often the source of the problem anyway.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2010 9:02:48 GMT -6
coachcb, I'm not trying to be a bada$$ but why go that far? The AD and administration hired us to be coaches and with that comes some sort of understanding that we are going to make the best personell decisions for the program. If you do that for one parent then you have set a precedent that you have to do it for every parent. Tell them you are doing everything you can to make the program the best it can be and right now their son is not a starter. They will never like it but that's some peoples nature, bias is bias. Also, what if on your practice tape another kid is screwing up and they say something about that. I really just think it is more hassle then it would ever be worth in the end. Set the tone early, stick to it, and if they have an issue let the peanut gallery sing ,it's part of the gig unfortunately. I have only been in this situation twice and these meetings happened after all other 'diplomatic' approaches had failed. But, in both cases, the AD let it go too far. In each situation, the player talked to the position coach and the HC; they were told what they needed to work on and that they could stay after practice to watch film/get extra reps but they didn't like what they heard. SO, they continued to complain at home and their folks kept after it. They went straight to the AD. In one situation, the parents claimed that we were discriminating against their boy because he had a learning disability and were threatening to sue. That might have held some water but the player never took the extra help that was offered. So, they were both very extreme cases. But, both cases that could have been avoided if the administration had a pair. We had the players present in both situations and I just didn't like the effect it had on them. Everything we said and what was shown on film had been banged into the their heads for weeks and they still didn't get it. It really wrecked both of them and I didn't feel it was necessary. But that's just my take on it; I can understand others' points of view. But, I guess they caused their own grief.
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Post by ajreaper on Dec 9, 2010 14:13:18 GMT -6
I think any meeting must include the player- it's his playing time not mom's or dad's so why should he not be there? I require the player to be present for any meeting- there are no off the record, I don't want him to know meetings concerning his playing time, whether he starts etc. I also show all emails from parents concerning that to their son- I want to know is this truly an issue with the player or is it just a parent being a pain in the butt. 90% of the time the kid is fine, they understand why they don't start or why they are used in a certain way- if the kid has no problem then why waste time with a parent. I don't need the dad to be in agreement just the player. Whether it's right or wrong my belief is the parents are not part of our team- they can be part of the program but team issues, such as playing time or scheme are none of their business. Now program issues- wanting to have input on homecoming or senior night or the awards banquet etc then they are free to offer their input.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2010 14:31:27 GMT -6
I think any meeting must include the player- it's his playing time not mom's or dad's so why should he not be there? I require the player to be present for any meeting- there are no off the record, I don't want him to know meetings concerning his playing time, whether he starts etc. I also show all emails from parents concerning that to their son- I want to know is this truly an issue with the player or is it just a parent being a pain in the butt. 90% of the time the kid is fine, they understand why they don't start or why they are used in a certain way- if the kid has no problem then why waste time with a parent. I don't need the dad to be in agreement just the player. Whether it's right or wrong my belief is the parents are not part of our team- they can be part of the program but team issues, such as playing time or scheme are none of their business. Now program issues- wanting to have input on homecoming or senior night or the awards banquet etc then they are free to offer their input. I do understand where everyone is coming from and my initial stance is based on more of a knee-jerk reaction to seeing how negatively the meeting impacted the player. It really turned into a p-ssing match between the parents and the staff; it felt like the parents weren't even making their boy the heart of the issue anymore. But, it did do the kids some good; they got a hard reality check. But, those were both situations that had gone WAYYY too far. I would never coach in a program that was run by an administration that reacted the way they did. I have never had issues like that since I left that program, especially in my current position. My AD doesn't just trust me to deal with this stuff: he demands it. If he gets a complaint, he tells the parents to talk to me about it.
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Post by pmeisel on Dec 11, 2010 18:13:31 GMT -6
I have seen many more obnoxious parents than coaches.
That said, I was part of getting a really useless coach removed a few years ago. My kids didn't even play that sport -- I just saw too much of his act ruining the situation.
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Post by 1bignasty on Dec 12, 2010 18:41:45 GMT -6
Anonymous message boards like rivals.com have become a nightmare for coaches in some states. I know of several coaches who have been lied about, slandered and maliciously attacked on rivals boards because of lack of playing time for thier sons or because a kid got beat out at his position. I think all message boards ought to require all of US to register with and use our real names like the flexboneassociation.com board does.
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