|
|
Post by coachwwharrell on Nov 20, 2010 10:45:57 GMT -6
Coaches,
Every one of us always looks at what gives our team the best chance to win. For some, it means running what you know, Others get their material from outside coaches who have been successful and whose ideals match what they want their team to have. I am surprised, then that little to no coaches have studied and adopted the philosophy of college football's all time wins leader. Not that it would work for youth football per se, but at least for high school.
Does anybody know what they run on offense, defense, and special teams? I know their coaching philosophy.
Tog and Coach Huey, would like your opinions on this approach.
-William Harrell
Head Football Coach
Hephzibah Middle School
Augusta, GA
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on Nov 20, 2010 13:31:59 GMT -6
St. johns is a special place in the fact he has no title 9 issues because SJU is an all boys school. Imagine an all boys high school and you see what I am getting at. you get the best of the best boys in the school.
basically he out athletes other schools and the conference he plays in is not a very strong from top to bottom. he had a guaranteed 5 wins every year. He has a winning record vs every team in the conference.
|
|
|
|
Post by bucksweepdotcom on Nov 20, 2010 14:03:47 GMT -6
In all due respect coach I do not think your post gives coach G enough credit for what he has been able to do over his time there.
I think his philosophy could work at the right HS. It is not my coaching style but I think could all learn something from Coach G.
|
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Nov 20, 2010 14:21:01 GMT -6
Gagliardi's offense and defense aren't what does it for him. He's not one of those X's and O's wizards. His offense changes shape and focus every year depending on the players he has available. It's all the same stuff, more or less, but some years he's running a ton, some years they'll air it out more.
If you listen to all the various 'quirks' of Gagliardi's team, it's clear that the most important things that he does (in my mind) are that he has created a culture where the athletes choose their role and he's shown them respect as growing young men. The second is more important when dealing with college-age boys (not that it isn't with us, but it's a different dynamic).
The first thing, though, is something that is quite interesting. There's no mandatory weight lifting, for example. But if you want to get better, you'd better be doing it. Because there's not a lot of mandatory stuff, because there's a lot of 'choosing your role', the guys that are playing and 'in', are truly IN. The difference between someone that's really committed themselves to being the best contributor they can be and someone who's merely done what's asked is not insignificant and I'd wager that's hard to replicate.
|
|
|
|
Post by davishfc on Nov 20, 2010 15:39:50 GMT -6
Coaches, Every one of us always looks at what gives our team the best chance to win. For some, it means running what you know, Others get their material from outside coaches who have been successful and whose ideals match what they want their team to have. I am surprised, then that little to no coaches have studied and adopted the philosophy of college football's all time wins leader. Not that it would work for youth football per se, but at least for high school. Does anybody know what they run on offense, defense, and special teams? I know their coaching philosophy. Tog and Coach Huey, would like your opinions on this approach. -William Harrell Head Football Coach Hephzibah Middle School Augusta, GA I am more familiar with Coach John Gagliardi's overall football coaching philosophy than I am his offensive, defensive, ad special teams philosophies and schemes. For anybody unfamiliar with his overall football coaching philosophies, Coach Gagliardi has several books out there but the following link will bring you up to speed: www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/sports/ncaafootball/19coach.html?_r=1&pagewanted=printcoachwwharrell, I'm going to elaborate on the principles that work for Coach Gagliardi that I have also adopted within our high school program. The following excerpt outlines his philosophy: "He does not allow tackling in practice, has no playbook and does not require his players to participate in strength and conditioning workouts. There is no yelling, no tackling dummies and no whistles. His quarterbacks call most of the plays." To go down the checklist here: 1) NO tackling in practice - We tackle in practice but we emphasize getting a fit and running feet without taking teammates to the ground. Every football player at all levels must practice their tackling technique consistently. I'm positive I couldn't have my high school players go out on the field without having known that we, as coaches, did everything in our power to reinforce correct tackling technique on a daily basis. It's a safety issue. Eyes up, eyes up, eyes up. Coach Gagliardi and I do not share the same philosophy on tackling in practice. 2) NO playbook - We have an official playbook amongst the coaching staff but we don't distribute it to our players. There's no need in our opinion. We really emphasize that the players understand their own specific responsibilities. We do this with a team of which most of the players play both ways. This is a testament to how simple yet sound we, as coaches, have made our offensive, defensive, and special team schemes and techniques. Coach Gagliardi and I share the same philosophy on playbooks for players. 3) NO required strength and conditioning workouts - WHAT???!!! You've got to be kidding me. I was a gym rat in high school...I was a gym rat in college...I'm a gym rat as a coach. We emphasize the weight room consistently and do our best to get players in there. Developing strength, speed, power, agility is absolutely vital to the success of a football program in my opinion and, of course, there are always exceptions to the rule i.e. Coach Gagliardi at St. John's. But as long as I coach I know I will emphasize development in the weight room. Coach Gagliardi and I do not share the same philosophy on required strength and conditioning workouts. 4) NO yelling, tackling dummies, and no whistles - Now I'm not a yeller but I do resort to using volume on occasion to get players attention when there is a lack of focus and to communicate a sense of urgency about what we're doing particularly at practice. I will talk to players and the team collectively about it but if I don't sense a change I will resort to using volume. This is not yelling in my opinion. Yelling does not contain information but if a coach raises his voice to get a point across I don't consider it the same. I know that not all coaches will agree with that statement but it's what I believe. Coach Gagliardi and share the same philosophy on yelling because I do not yell although I do raise my voice. We do not use tackling dummies after we are in full pads. We prefer the players getting a fit in both their blocking and tackling techniques. If you consider the sled dummies then Coach Gagliardi and I disagree here because we use the sled for several positions especially in full pad. But assuming the sled is not included here, Coach Gagliardi and I share the same philosophy on the use of tackling dummies. We use whistles consistently in practice because during a game whistle blows are the stimuli that begin plays with the ready for play and, most importantly, end plays. We want to make sure our players understand that when the whistle blows the play is over. To me, you are asking for personal foul penalties if you don't consistently use whistles because players must learn when the play is over. This should be emphasized during drill and team segments during practice. Coach Gagliardi and I do not share the same philosophy on using whistles during practice. 5) QBs call most of the plays - I work for several months during the off-season breaking down film from our previous season preparing for the upcoming season. During the season, I spend 8-10 hours on Saturday as well as 3-4 during the early part of the week getting ready to do my job on Friday night as OC & DC. During the off-season my QB wrestles and then plays baseball. When he knows and understands as much as I do about what's going on then he can call the plays on his own. In the mean time, the QB has been given some pre-snap responsibilities regarding checks at the LOS. He has the responsibility to make sure we are in the correct play. Now I know some would equate that to play-calling but it rarely needs to happen. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a pre-snap responsibility of the QB on each and every down. He can manage that and that is what I put on each of our QB's shoulders. Coach Gagliardi and I do not share the same philosophy on who's responsibility it is to call most of the plays. Coach, I hope this clarifies the similarities and differences between my own personal philosophy and the very unique philosophy of the great John Gagliardi. There are aspects of his philosophy that I agree with and other aspects that I do not. I don't in any way think that's disrespectful. I just think it goes to show how many different ways coaches go about helping their football programs succeed. Obviously his philosophy works it's just not entirely my approach or style. Now I'm still trying to prove that our approach can be successful but we'll keep working at it because we believe in it. |
|
|
|
Post by td4tc on Nov 20, 2010 16:43:03 GMT -6
how do u argue about a guy that has over 500 wins no matter what the circumstances? that's unreal..i couldn't imagine 500 wins in Madden even..i heard him speak years ago and immediately wanted to play for him or coach with him...very inspiring(and funny)
sounds like he gives a lot of credit to the kids to be accountable so he must recruit "good kids"..he sticks mostly to kids in his state.
one thing i remember him saying about the tackling thing was that "once they get to me they know how to tackle.. i want to make sure they get to the right place and time to make that tackle"
|
|
|
|
Post by coachbw on Nov 20, 2010 21:52:47 GMT -6
I live about 30 miles from St. Johns and have followed and coached against his teams. Couple of comments. First, don't mistake not requiring lifting with not valuing it. St johns has tons of kids from the area go there and he almost always brings 150 into summer camp. He doesn't need to require it because the competition that comes with these numbers lead to it. As far as specific schemes they run a decent amount of 2 back near/ far stuff. Belly, pitch, trap, etc. They do a good job of fitting their personnel and in my opinion this is especially true with the qb position.
|
|
|
|
Post by jjkuenzel on Nov 21, 2010 22:55:49 GMT -6
I coached on staff at SJU in 07 and 08. Here are the basics in terms of scheme
Offense: Multiple sets with vertical passing game and basic run game (trap, iso, power, lead option). Focus on doing a lot of things well and nothing great.
Defense: 4-3 read and react with primarily a cv4 shell behind it. Speed is the name of the game. Rarely start a kid over 250 on the DL.
ST: Basic special team that everyone else runs. Used primarily as a proving ground for younger players.
|
|
|
|
Post by calicoachh on Nov 21, 2010 23:17:11 GMT -6
it helps to have a huge roster that creates competition. no mandatory anything, but when six guys are behind you on the depth chart, they make you want to live in the weight room.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwwharrell on Dec 19, 2010 7:33:32 GMT -6
it helps to have a huge roster that creates competition. no mandatory anything, but when six guys are behind you on the depth chart, they make you want to live in the weight room. Coach, I agree. I've been an assistant coach of some HS programs where certain kids will not push themselves because they know no one is behind them working to take their spot. Im sure the SJU staff puts things together for those that want to work, but you won't get cut if you don't do it. |
|
rock85
Sophomore Member
Posts: 125
|
Post by rock85 on Dec 24, 2010 12:56:22 GMT -6
I remember reading "The Sweet Season" by Austin Murphy a few years back -- he spent a season following the team...not an Xs and Os book, but some pretty good stuff...
|
|
|
|
Post by amthd45 on Dec 24, 2010 15:18:36 GMT -6
What is so cool about St. Johns is just that this philsophy is so different from what most of us were raised on. Most of us use and think of football as a paramilitary type of training and that does work. But people like Gagliardi, and Frosty Westering at PLU have done the opposite and it worked for them! Plus I can tell you one thing they both have had some talented players too, no way you are going to win like that without some talent deep on your rosters.
I coached under a disciple of Frosty Westering. It changed my ENTIRE outlook on coaching. And it did so for the better. Now I focus to to win the hearts of the players first, take a genuine intrest in them as people, and man those kids will play their butts off for you when you do this! Plus this generation of kid does not respond to the old school "grab your facemask and challenge your manhood" type of motivation as we did. I think this is due to the lack of of fathers in alot of kid's lives right now, but that is a whole nother can of worms to explore later.
|
|
|
|
Post by jml on Dec 25, 2010 9:13:39 GMT -6
Coach, what have you done specifically to do this? I love the concept, but need help with the details. JML I coached under a disciple of Frosty Westering. It changed my ENTIRE outlook on coaching. And it did so for the better. Now I focus to to win the hearts of the players first, take a genuine intrest in them as people, and man those kids will play their butts off for you when you do this! Plus this generation of kid does not respond to the old school "grab your facemask and challenge your manhood" type of motivation as we did. I think this is due to the lack of of fathers in alot of kid's lives right now, but that is a whole nother can of worms to explore later. |
|
|
|
Post by coachweav88 on Mar 10, 2012 7:37:04 GMT -6
I wanted to open this thread back up mainly to discuss practice schedule. On offfense, they just run plays vs scout d. How could this be tweaked to work for HS? Maybe a 20 minute Indy session each day, then straight to team. Position coaches decide what to work on for indys. Some days, you could do some group run, or group pass if you feel you need it. The flexibility could be beneficial
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Mar 10, 2012 8:10:37 GMT -6
St. Johns is getting young ADULTS who have already had at least four years' of Football instruction and experience.
HS coaches are not.
We have to spend time teaching KIDS how to defend themselves, to prepare, block, tackle, and all the other fundamentals of the game that the St. Johns and other college coaches do not.
Two completely different circumstances.
Would the Gagliardi philosophy work in HS Football?
In the right situation (including an outstanding sub-HS "feeder system"), probably.
I coached D-III CFB for five years. Most people greatly underrate the level of athlete and Football being played. There are a lot of all-conference HS players who can't play D-III.
The numbers and competition at St. Johns helps keep them winning at a high rate.
That and of course great coaching, if unique in its methodology.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachweav88 on Mar 10, 2012 9:48:41 GMT -6
I agree that kids need to be taught fundamentals. Which is why id add an Indy period to what they do. After that, they continue to work on fundamentals in the context of the entire play. We call veer rt. Right ol work on double team, left ol gets a Rep on cut blocks/scooping. Qb/fb works on read/mesh, slot works on pitch relationship. Ps slot and se work on stalk blocks. All these are fundamentals which are still being worked on, just in context of the whole play. If one were to use this approach, I think you'd need to film it so you can get a good look at everything.
|
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Mar 12, 2012 0:35:05 GMT -6
St. Johns is getting young ADULTS who have already had at least four years' of Football instruction and experience To backup BLB, Gagliardi has said that they don't work on tackling because they purposefully recruit kids who are already competent tacklers. Just a different situation than most of us. The mindset he has can work at the HS level, absolutely, but you cannot go overboard with the other bits. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 10:21:04 GMT -6
I read an article that Gagliardi's son wrote (he is an assistant coach at SJ) a few years ago. He did state in the article that the philosophy was more than "no tackling" or "player empowerment." He said if you took anything away it was to "eliminate the unnecessary."
I think the Eden Prairie MN coach played for Gagliardi and has a similar philosophy in high school. But he did mention in a clinic manual that he had to break things down more for young kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Mar 12, 2012 12:36:53 GMT -6
You might as well play Russian Roulette with yourself if you don't teach HS kids how to tackle. The first time a kid gets hurt on defense and they ask "Did you show, demonstrate, and practice proper tackling" and you have to say "No." Kiss you a$$ goodbye!
|
|
|
|
Post by poniesolcoach on Mar 18, 2012 11:13:04 GMT -6
Coach Gagliardi and St John's success can be attributed to a number of things outside of the X's and O's. I work for and have worked with people that have played for and coached for John.
IMHO and never to diminish ANY accomplishment I have to say to a large extent their offense works because of simplicity, repetition, execution and the level of athletes. Like ANY offense if you have the personnel it can be successful. We tried to implement the "St John's" offense for a few years and got the crap beaten out of us and moved to Wing T.
As for the philosophy of, no tackling, the 'nice day drill' John demanding that players called him John etc... I think are a huge... for HIS program, just as Bear Bryant's style (the ultimate 180 from Gagliardi's) was successful for him.
It will be interesting to see how things evolve as St John's Biggest Competition in their Conference is St Thomas. I have to say that I have been incredibly Impressed with the job that Glenn Caruso and staff have done there over the past few years!!!
|
|
