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Post by coachcb on Oct 21, 2010 8:48:09 GMT -6
My assistant this year has never coached anything in his life. Now he's a good guy and has been doing a decent job with the kids up to this point. I have given him a fair amount of ownership in the program; when he's made some suggestions with respect to the offense or defense, I have listened to him and implemented them if they fit within the over all scheme.
However, there have been some issues as of late. When he's got the offensive backs, I lay out what we need to get done. For example, when I have the OL, we rotate the centers over with the backs to that they can get reps at gun snapping as we're a straight Spinner team. Early in the year, I asked him to have one of the kids line up on the center so that he can his blocking and footwork as well. I laid out the footwork and the snapping technique early in the year. He did it for awhile, but that's not the case now. I looked over at the backs' drills the other day while working with the OL and he hasn't had anyone on the center, and the centers' footwork and snaps have been sh-t. I waited for him to finish up a rep and sent the kids for water. I pulled him aside and quietly and politely talked to him about it. We finished up the drills and he did what I asked him to do. I did this earlier in the year when I asked him to do some ball security drills and rep our base offense; he spent the entire period repping a pass play that I don't call very often.
But, early this week, I look over there and the same crap is going on; but it's even worse. The backs and the center are just screwing around, the center was actually snapping the ball with it parallel to the LOS! I put the OL on auto-pilot (they know what to do and get it done), went over there and took the drill over. I didn't jump him for it, but I took the backs and the center away from him. Our snaps were terrible this last week and it cost us the football game. Now, he took in stride because he knew I was p-ssed off about it.
I have basically had to pull the backs and the centers from him completely; he 'coaches' the OL (i.e. they do the drills I taught them and he watches) and I work with the backs and the centers. I told him after practice that there were things that had to get done and that I was going to make sure it happened because he wouldn't.
But, now the kids don't respond to him at all; several of them were already on the fence with him and this has pushed it over the edge. It's having a negative impact right now.
I don't know if the kids attitude towards him is going to be more detrimental to the team than the crap coaching that was going on. Did I create my own monster here? Should I have talked to him about it one more time?
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Post by brophy on Oct 21, 2010 9:25:09 GMT -6
I'm stumped. You shouldn't have to be coaching your coaches, so I don't know where you went wrong. The only justification for him doing what he was doing is if there wasn't a practice plan in place with a script (team is going to be doing X----so group should be doing X ----so indy time should be used to train X). That doesn't sound like that is the case here, so it just sounds like this guy doesn't have a clue. Sorry
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 21, 2010 9:54:20 GMT -6
I've been dealing with a new boss who is hard to work with, for two reasons: 1-He has a VERY exact and specific idea of what he wants and how to get it 2-He is a LOUSY communicator.
He frequently takes over drills and indy time in order to get done what he wants done, then lays into the coaches for not doing it the way he wants. It's frustrating to deal with because, with better communication, these things could be avoided.
From what it seems like, you aren't my boss. You have communicated what you want, you've been patient, and you've allowed the opportunity for growth and ownership, which is something that coaches need, imo. If, after all that, the dude isn't getting it done, then you should take over his drills to get what you want.
It does affect the kids and I hate that aspect of my job/situation, but they ultimately understand that it's a learning and growing experience for everyone involved, except our boss. He is who he is, there's not a lot of change happening there. I don't mean that in a negative way, he's one of the most successful coaches in CA, the dude's just been around the game for a long time and is set in his ways.
Hope that all makes sense/helps.
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kevind
Freshmen Member
Posts: 56
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Post by kevind on Oct 21, 2010 10:07:14 GMT -6
Brophy do you mean you shouldn't be coaching your assistant coaches during practice or at all? cb mention this assistant had zero coaching experience. I know as a young assistant I appreciate a little critic at the end of practice or even a game on the job I did. I feel it helps me grow as a coach.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 21, 2010 10:36:57 GMT -6
Talk to him again. He needs to own that group/drill. If they don't respond then he needs to figure out how to make them respond through punishment and improving his coaching skills.
You ABSOLUTELY need to coach your coach here...if he still can't do it and you don't feel he is getting the job done then you may have to move on without him next season.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 18:06:06 GMT -6
He!! around here you HAVE to coach your coaches! Our first year with the program there were 5 of us for JV and varsity...only 2 of which had ever coached. Had to coach em' up, can't coach 85 kids with 2 guys. We are better now, with only 1 guy on a staff of 10 that doesn't know anything, so it's better. Sometimes you do what you have to do with what you've got. However, if a guy isn't doing what I'm telling him to do, then he can go pound sand for all I care.
Duece
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Post by coachcb on Oct 21, 2010 18:38:34 GMT -6
Talk to him again. He needs to own that group/drill. If they don't respond then he needs to figure out how to make them respond through punishment and improving his coaching skills. You ABSOLUTELY need to coach your coach here...if he still can't do it and you don't feel he is getting the job done then you may have to move on without him next season. I have been coaching him up; explaining techniques and drills to him in a manner that he'll understand. I've tried not to overload him with too much and I don't think I have. I turned the backs over to him for a little bit today and it appears that damage has been done. He was really hammering at the details and doing what I asked of him, but the kids have basically shut off to him. I cut INDY time down and we moved into team; I focused on the backs and repeated all of the things he had been saying. They cleaned up their sh-t pretty quick when I was coaching them. But, the season is almost over and it is what it is at this point. I appreciate the guy; I couldn't get anyone else to come out and coach this year. He was griping about the kids not listening to him today and I laid it out there for him. I told that they shut off to him when I had to take over the drills. I didn't apologize for doing so and told him to let it be a learning experience for next year.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 21, 2010 21:20:07 GMT -6
That sucks man. I hope he is embarrassed, learns from it, and doesn't let them off easy next fall.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 22, 2010 6:57:36 GMT -6
I've been dealing with a new boss who is hard to work with, for two reasons: 1-He has a VERY exact and specific idea of what he wants and how to get it 2-He is a LOUSY communicator. He frequently takes over drills and indy time in order to get done what he wants done, then lays into the coaches for not doing it the way he wants. It's frustrating to deal with because, with better communication, these things could be avoided. From what it seems like, you aren't my boss. You have communicated what you want, you've been patient, and you've allowed the opportunity for growth and ownership, which is something that coaches need, imo. If, after all that, the dude isn't getting it done, then you should take over his drills to get what you want. It does affect the kids and I hate that aspect of my job/situation, but they ultimately understand that it's a learning and growing experience for everyone involved, except our boss. He is who he is, there's not a lot of change happening there. I don't mean that in a negative way, he's one of the most successful coaches in CA, the dude's just been around the game for a long time and is set in his ways. Hope that all makes sense/helps. I was very hesitant to do it because it has happened to me; in a situation similar to yours. But, I was coaching a froshmore unit that practiced separately from the varsity and the HC left his varsity drill to come take over mine. I thought I was doing what he asked of me, but I guess I wasn't. I was a young coach so, I was probably screwing something up, but I had a hard time getting my kids back after that. Because of that, it's pretty rare that I micromanage. I'm far more likely to cut back on indy time and run shell drills so that I can get the things done when an assistant isn't experienced. But, I couldn't do that in this situation; the backs needed alot of individual, specific attention.
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 22, 2010 7:23:15 GMT -6
I was very hesitant to do it because it has happened to me; in a situation similar to yours. But, I was coaching a froshmore unit that practiced separately from the varsity and the HC left his varsity drill to come take over mine. I thought I was doing what he asked of me, but I guess I wasn't. I was a young coach so, I was probably screwing something up, but I had a hard time getting my kids back after that. Because of that, it's pretty rare that I micromanage. I'm far more likely to cut back on indy time and run shell drills so that I can get the things done when an assistant isn't experienced. But, I couldn't do that in this situation; the backs needed alot of individual, specific attention. I know how you feel, but I think the important thing to learn is that you SHOULD do it on your terms. You can't just let something be taught wrong or not in the way you want, that's not helping anyone. You don't want to shame anyone, but it does need to get fixed ASAP. Sometimes it's as easy as calling the guy over in between drills, sometimes it's showing exactly how you want it done. I think in your situation, you also need to coach the kids' perception of your asst after you correct him.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 22, 2010 7:57:26 GMT -6
I was very hesitant to do it because it has happened to me; in a situation similar to yours. But, I was coaching a froshmore unit that practiced separately from the varsity and the HC left his varsity drill to come take over mine. I thought I was doing what he asked of me, but I guess I wasn't. I was a young coach so, I was probably screwing something up, but I had a hard time getting my kids back after that. Because of that, it's pretty rare that I micromanage. I'm far more likely to cut back on indy time and run shell drills so that I can get the things done when an assistant isn't experienced. But, I couldn't do that in this situation; the backs needed alot of individual, specific attention. I know how you feel, but I think the important thing to learn is that you SHOULD do it on your terms. You can't just let something be taught wrong or not in the way you want, that's not helping anyone. You don't want to shame anyone, but it does need to get fixed ASAP. Sometimes it's as easy as calling the guy over in between drills, sometimes it's showing exactly how you want it done. I think in your situation, you also need to coach the kids' perception of your asst after you correct him. It's been a steep learning curve for the guy; he's struggled to manage the kids, in a lot of ways. Early in the season, he told me that I needed to talk to one of the players because he was being mouthy. I laughed and told him that he needed to take care of it; he's got them during INDY, he needs to enforce discipline or they wouldn't respect him. He brought it up again later and I pointed out that the kid never pops off to me when I'm dealing with him because he knows that I won't put up with his crap. The kid screwed with me once and I told him to take off his pads, go take a seat, and not to come back until he decided that he wanted to dial in. I also mentioned that he'd better make his mind up quick; if he didn't get his sh-t together and jump back into the drills, he wasn't going to play that week. Worked like a charm. But, my assistant didn't take a cue from it. So, I guess that's where I am kind of questioning myself in the situation; I knew that the kids don't have a lot of respect for him. I wondered if they'd completely tune him out if I took over the drill and they did. But, I s'pose it's a learning experience for him; he'll be a better coach for it next year.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 22, 2010 10:33:50 GMT -6
The effort isn't there? Updowns. And we'll keep doing them till something changes.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 22, 2010 18:59:08 GMT -6
The effort isn't there? Updowns. And we'll keep doing them till something changes. I used to do that; I've found that threatening playing time gets things done quicker with our guys. I just don't like taking practice time for physical punishment. I give them their little 'time out' and one of two things happens: they either get it together and rejoin us or they sit and pout. When they sulk, I tell them it's an unexcused absence and they don't play that week. The message is simple; you can still show up to practice and be considered absent if you're being a lazy a--. If we've got a couple of guys dragging at the beginning of practice, I'll just restart practice and tell them to get it together. I'd only had to do that once this year; we started practice over again, twice. We were doing some form tackling work on the sled to start practice, they were d-cking around, so we started all over. They did the warm-up routine, got on the sled and did it again; so I hit the restart button. They realized that they'd better pick it up because they basically tripled the amount of sled time they had. It can be ineffective down here because practice has to be done at a specific time because the kids are bussed in and out. But, that day, we pushed it until the very last minute; they grabbed their school stuff and hit the bus with their pads on. LOL. This approach is very, very effective when you don't have time constraints on practice; I restarted once in the middle of a practice because they decided to start being sloths. We went right back through the practice plan from the beginning and we were on the field for an extra 45 minutes. I never had an issue with it again; as soon as the phrase "looks like we might be starting over" came out of my mouth, they dialed right back in.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 22, 2010 23:09:15 GMT -6
The effort isn't there? Updowns. And we'll keep doing them till something changes. I used to do that; I've found that threatening playing time gets things done quicker with our guys. So you say, tell them they won't get to play? So how does that motivate the "team" and what does it say to the kids who are not starters? I don't think two minutes of updowns to get team wide results is a "waste of time". IMHO.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 22, 2010 23:12:09 GMT -6
I started practice three times once this year, it was a pregame practice and it was up to them to get out of there by 5:30. They left at 5:50 and it sent the message for the rest of the year. Pre-games are important and mentally intense.
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tackle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 129
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Post by tackle on Oct 23, 2010 15:34:11 GMT -6
I have dealt with this issue. The guy knew football, but worked in a professional environment. He was unable to deal with students that were challenging and lazy. It took half of the season before he understood what was needed to get players attention. By then the players had no respect for him.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 25, 2010 7:35:54 GMT -6
If he's gotten the message and is back on board and trying to do the right thing now maybe you can go over and 'get his back' in an indy period. Put your OL on auto pilot and just slide over and watch from behind. Then when one of them doesn't do it right the way he's coaching them you make your point about why didn't you do it right? He's your coach, why aren't you listening to him? Etc. Basically show the players you have confidence in him.
I know you had to take the drill over, and I think it was the right thing to do, but one of the results is it damaged their perception of the coach because they see your perception of him changed. Maybe they need to see you have confidence in him again. Since you had to take the drill away from him, this could be a way to give it back to him in front of the players.
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