|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Oct 20, 2010 9:32:38 GMT -6
So, to open, our kicker is atrocious (actually, they both are). I have been advocating to the rest of the staff that we cease punting entirely (since they average less than 10 yards) and that we only kick onside (since the kickoffs aren't going much further than 10 yards anyways).
Also, Canadian (Quebec) gr. 7 high school ball.
Several times this year, we have punted and it has gone nowhere, mostly up, once for -1 yards, never more than 5 yards. When this happens, the ball is headed back down into a large crowd of both team's players, and the ref whistles it dead, and gives the other team the ball where it came down. Apparently this is a safety rule, so 15 kids don't pile on each other (probably a good idea). It probably helps us, since there is no way we could avoid a 15-yd no yards penalty (no fair catch up north, but you have to give the returner a 5-yard cushion when he first touches the ball).
Question being: is this a normal rule? I've never been with a team so sorry as to have this problem.
|
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Oct 20, 2010 9:37:48 GMT -6
By gr 7 do you mean 7th grade as in 12-year-olds? If so, I'll move this post to the Youth section where more guys will be familiar with situations similkar to your's.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Oct 20, 2010 9:57:03 GMT -6
Yes, they're 12 but it's high school football, since HS here goes from gr. 7-11 (Quebec is a land where everything is more complicated) and so far as I can tell, we otherwise play by normal HS rules, and the other coaches acted like I was nuts for not knowing that the ref would blow the play dead.
|
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Oct 20, 2010 10:01:30 GMT -6
Yes, they're 12 but it's high school football, since HS here goes from gr. 7-11 (Quebec is a land where everything is more complicated) and so far as I can tell, we otherwise play by normal HS rules, and the other coaches acted like I was nuts for not knowing that the ref would blow the play dead. That's why I'm going to move it. In the U.S. 7th grade is Youth. You'll get much better responses there. As a U.S. HS coach (grade 9-12) I have absolutely no experience with stuff like this and I'm guessing that that;s true for others. |
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Oct 20, 2010 13:47:52 GMT -6
Also, Canadian (Quebec) gr. 7 high school ball. Several times this year, we have punted and it has gone nowhere, mostly up, once for -1 yards, never more than 5 yards. When this happens, the ball is headed back down into a large crowd of both team's players, and the ref whistles it dead, and gives the other team the ball where it came down. Apparently this is a safety rule, so 15 kids don't pile on each other (probably a good idea). It probably helps us, since there is no way we could avoid a 15-yd no yards penalty (no fair catch up north, but you have to give the returner a 5-yard cushion when he first touches the ball). Question being: is this a normal rule? I've never been with a team so sorry as to have this problem. Yes, that's long been the rule in Canadian football -- that if a kick is coming down so short that it looks like it's falling into a crowd where there are offside players of the kicking team, they whistle and the ball is dead where it comes down, possession to the receiving team. At certain times (I don't remember whether it's the current amateur rule) there's also 5 yards added on to the receiving team's spot for the accidental offsides. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Oct 20, 2010 17:51:47 GMT -6
Thanks. I've been trying to convince them that if this is happening regularly, we need to stop punting, but we have a slavish devotion to being EXACTLY like the varsity team, regardless of how stupid it is. Another example is that our defense has a fundamental structural flaw where our weakside contain player motions to the strong side when the other team goes trips strong. As a result we got murdered by a basic shotgun QB double lead last week, since they had 3 blockers to 1 defender at the POA. Anyways, that's a rant for another day. Thanks for the help Bob.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Oct 20, 2010 21:50:25 GMT -6
in canadian amateur if the punt return 5 yard halo infraction happens on a punt caught in the air its 15 yards if the punt bounces it now becomes a 5 yard penalty so in some ways, as soon as the ball hits the ground it might make more sense to have your kids down the ball give up the 5 yard penalty and not give up a return Except that they're not supposed to give the 15 yard penalty if the ball looks like it's coming down unexpectedly short such that your offside players are unlikely to avoid fouling. In fact, they're supposed to whistle while the ball is still in the air. However, if the officials judge that your punting is so weak that your coverage should expect the ball to come down that short, then they'll call the 15 yard "no yards". Depends if the officials want to take pity on you, I guess. |
|
|
|
Post by utchuckd on Oct 21, 2010 7:13:58 GMT -6
However, if the officials judge that your punting is so weak that your coverage should expect the ball to come down that short, then they'll call the 15 yard "no yards". Depends if the officials want to take pity on you, I guess. So the punt coverage team should back up when it's kicked? Damn. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Oct 21, 2010 9:15:24 GMT -6
I'm actually a little embarassed to have to be discussing this. I suppose by those rules, our line would have to snap and immediately start retreating, since it is a known fact that we can't punt that far. Except for about once in every 10 or 15, when he sends it 50 yards downfield. But I kid you not, we once punted for -1 yards, no return. We might as well have friggin kneeled. or fumbled the snap, or have the QB trip on the C's leg. Oh well. One more practice, one more game, then I can work on MY team.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Oct 21, 2010 13:30:18 GMT -6
I kid you not, we once punted for -1 yards, no return. That would've been one of our better punts with the Cowboys Jr. Pee Wees in 2007. Why do you think so many leagues adopt those special punting rules in this age range? Of course in the organiz'n I'm with now, we also have the excuse that our prep time is so limited, they're taking a little of the pressure off by not having to practice protection & coverage. |
|
|
|
Post by Coach JR on Oct 21, 2010 14:18:02 GMT -6
No real help to offer...we got a kid on my 11/12 year old team that hits 30 plus yard punts consistently, and can hit any man you tell him to with a very nice onside kick, just about every time. I tell my header I wish we punted more, it would be our best play.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Oct 21, 2010 17:23:11 GMT -6
Generally, our special teams this year have been an exercise in comedy. Our KO return is just like the varsity team's, so we have 4 layers of guys spanning stretching 60 yds deep from the kick, in the knowledge no opponent can kick more than 35-40 yards. This also leaves big holes in the coverage, including a swath 25 yards wide and 30 yards deep in the middle of the field with nobody. The other team dropped a KO into one of our holes and we just stared at it and basically gave up the world's awesomest onside kick. We've fumbled/muffed and lost at least 1 KOR per game, and have not converted one PAT because we have a kid with a great 1940's vintage no-step toe punch, but they demand that he line up soccer style. Because varsity does it that way.
I understand they want to implement a system over the 5 years in the program, but this doesn't seem like the stuff to be quibbling over. And they have a total platonic ideal of how the game ought to be, we played a team that ran a 3-3 stack tap and go, it was derided as "Not real football, just a cheap gimmick that only works at this level" Which was the same commet they had when we faced a 2-back shotgun team that ran QB double lead all night.
Our lone win this season came when one player ran for 486 yards (not a typo) and caught for 16, scored all of our 31 points and made 36 tackles on defense. Needless to say, after that, the book on us was short: Fear Ralph, noone else. We've done little to either change that or work within it.
And finally, our terminology is this horrid blend of English and French. Our front shifts according to Ricky or Liz calls, for right and left, which does not translate into French. Our offensive formations are Far and Near, words these kids barely understand, because they don't speak much English. Our linebackers are Sam and Will, which also doesn't translate, so confusion abounds, especially among those kids with a subpar mental acuity.
Feels good to rant a little. For now I'm trying to manoeuvre politically to get a position next year where I can change things.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Oct 22, 2010 8:19:12 GMT -6
I don't think there's a base anywhere there, otherwise I'd be there already. This is really making me miss Southern Ontario.
|
|
