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Post by gamedog on Nov 5, 2007 10:42:07 GMT -6
Now that his guys are playing, they look like a very bottom of the barrel DI team.
In the famous words of Vince Lombardi "What the hell is going on here?"
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Post by coachveer on Nov 5, 2007 11:02:59 GMT -6
I dont think Weis gets to wear that big old cross all by himself...ND has been heading this direction for awhile now. Weis just happens to be the last one holding the steering wheel.
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Post by spreadattack on Nov 5, 2007 11:10:19 GMT -6
I agree to a point. The thing that surprises me is how bad the quarterback play is. Someone told me when Quinn became the starter all the backups got run off to transfer. The offense just seems to lack consistency and I do agree that they have no real identity. Admittedly much of this is the line stuff.
Lou Holtz talked about the identity thing and I think it is true. I mean, they started THE SEASON with an athletic QB, ran about 3 zone read plays, stalled out and fumbled on two drives, and then that entire identity went out the window. How do you become a zone-read team for three series? Holtz implored them to be physical - I think Weis would be fine trying to run a modern pass-first pro style offense.
If he wants to be a pro style pass team he needs to determine the right way to go about it. I mean I think you can do that but you need an identity. Norm Chow installed a multiple Pro offense at USC (and they went 6-6 the first year then had the breakout year the next), but there was more of an identity than a true grab bag approach.
This I think has hurt him. He clearly hasn't developed the backups, so I wonder how his practices were organized. And the lack of identity has hurt them.
I don't know. I find it confusing. In any event, this year is shot and we'll see about things next year. If they come out confident, with the young guys having developed a bit and more of an identity and efficiency then we'll see. In other words, Weis will have an opportunity to earn his money. There's a difference between losing and bad football. And they have sunk into playing bad football.
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Post by brophy on Nov 5, 2007 11:14:20 GMT -6
is what ails ND the same disease that NU has?
Holtz>Davies>Willingham>Weis
Osborne>Solich>Callahan
Recruiting? Scheduling? Prestige Illusions?
Not that there is ONE systemic issue here, but both were considered offensive wizards....to work their magic in the college game. Was the emphasis (with power & control to influence it) put on quarterbacks and receivers.............and neglect to ST & Defense?
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Post by spreadattack on Nov 5, 2007 13:11:04 GMT -6
Maybe. NU is clearly struggling. But it seems the issues there are more about leadership and structural problems. As someone pointed out, NU's defensive coordinator was Barry Alvarez's longtime defensive coordinator where they had stout, tough defenses. So it's not that they don't know the game or know how to react.
There's a lot that goes into it. We're seeing a bit of the reverse of the old knock against college coaches going to the pros. There were a string of good NFL to college moves (Pete Carroll, Al Groh, etc) but those guys brought enthusiasm and structure along with their NFL nuance. It may be different dealing with professionals in a way that college guys can't always relate to, but you have to be in control of some other things in college or HS whereas in the Pros they are, well, pros.
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Post by spreadattack on Nov 5, 2007 13:11:48 GMT -6
Sorry should have clarified: Alvarez's defensive coordinator at Wisconsin.
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Post by coachm on Nov 5, 2007 13:24:50 GMT -6
when in doubt, blame the admissions department! ;D
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Post by cmow5 on Nov 5, 2007 13:43:09 GMT -6
The troubles started with ND when Weis decided not to have physical practices at the start of the season. Sometimes just helmets and shorts. When the only starting returning offense players are FB, TE, C you have to get these guys used to the physical nature that cames with ND schedule. No cupcakes at the start of the season for ND. They don't play any D2 teams ever. I seen a stat that ND starts the least amount of JR and SR out of anyone. That being said that is a reason not an excuse there is no excuse for this season. I am a ND fan of 30 years and I am so embarrassed to say that. Every where you look ND is the joke of College Football I seen Leno making jokes. I was at the Navy Game  . ND was not ready for that game from the beginning and Navy was. Even the bus drivers for Navy were pumped up. I was sitting in traffic before the game and the navy buses came flying by doing about 75 down the center lane. Coming out of the tunnel ND looked like they were beat before they even stepped on the field. The only good excuse for losing that game was Robert Hugh's brother was shot and killed earlier that week. Weis took some time off to go to Chicago to be with Hughs and his family and the whole team went to the funeral in Chicago. Hopefully they can turn it around next year.  |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 5, 2007 14:03:37 GMT -6
The admission standards at ND are also notoriously high. It's not like other D1 schools where some of the athletes admitted are borderline illiterate (no joke).
I was told once that in order to get into ND, you had to have taken and passed pre-calculus in HS. If you hadn't taken pre-calc, you had to take an admissions exam that covered pre-calculus. Now, that's no small task for ALOT of kids.
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Post by dubber on Nov 5, 2007 14:46:31 GMT -6
I was told once that in order to get into ND, you had to have taken and passed pre-calculus in HS. If you hadn't taken pre-calc, you had to take an admissions exam that covered pre-calculus. Now, that's no small task for ALOT of kids. and probably a lot of coaches |
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Post by hemlock on Nov 5, 2007 18:08:40 GMT -6
Let's first remember that a couple of years ago everybody was praising Weis. He is an outstanding coach.
I agree with a couple of the posters above. Notre Dame has been trending towards this for some time. They still have not addressed all of the academic issues, which I think given ND's brand name should not really be that much of a problem. This has been overplayed for some time.
People talk about the QB play of ND; yes, its been horrid, but I don't think that by any stretch of the imagination that Claussen was ready to play - either physically or emotionally.
Also, as people have note, ND has suffered from a "grab-bag" approach. I think that Weis pretty much ran his offense with Brady Quinn, but outfoxed after he left. He should have just scaled things back and build from his base principles.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 5, 2007 18:46:17 GMT -6
Team speed and lack of physicality are the major deficiencies I see. Then I would add, poor play by the offensive line. Some of this may be related to recruiting and the academic requirements.
Also, knowing when to go for it on fourth down has been the one glaring issue that I cannot get over.
Maybe the athletes have not been handled correctly. I would like to think that the Wiess staff will get it turned around.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Nov 5, 2007 20:05:36 GMT -6
I think it just goes to show that having a few key guys in the right places makes a world of difference.
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 5, 2007 20:34:33 GMT -6
Notre Dame and calculus: All I know about Calculus is that I never took it.
I think it goes to show you need players to run any system. Weis was a great coach, now Weis is a butt. Callahan was praised now he's a butt (actually I always thought he was a butt).
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Post by hemlock on Nov 5, 2007 21:20:26 GMT -6
I coached a long time and am now in academia and have never been able to figure this out, which really means that I'm not that smart. Why is it so hard to find athletes that are smart? What I mean is, why is it so hard to find kids who really excel intellectually and athletically. I coached at 3 fairly major college programs before I got out and the place I enjoyed coaching at the most was the one with the most rigorous academic standards. The kids were great. It was a joy to coach them. The two years I was there we were 5-6 and 4-7, but when I left I always felt that these were the types of kids upon which the backbone of a country is built.
I know that I'm asking for it, but I've never been able to understand the need to hit in practice all the time. Frankly, I've always preferred the pro mentality in this one regard. It's progressive. Yes, people believe that it makes you tough, but at the same time it also beats you down. I coached with a Woody Hayes desciple and we hit relentlessly throughout August and well into the season and I could never understand the rationale.
Regarding Weis, he will turn the ship around. He is simply too good of a coach. It just might not be pretty for a year or two, which in today's college game delusional fans and alumns must recognize is a part of the game. Patience is the key. Let's withold judgement until the end of year 5.
By the way, look at the job the Sly Croom is doing with MSU. Another fine example of an AD and University President recognizing that there is a right and wrong way to do things.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Nov 6, 2007 10:01:11 GMT -6
Bottom line is we don't know what is going on inside the program. We don't know personnel issues, coaching issues, moral issues. We don't know what is being done/said/applied.
One thing has bothered me: On the final timeout they kept the cameras on the ND QB and Weiss on the sideline. The QB stood apart (6 -8') with his back to Weiss, while Weiss stood there (listening to the booth). Nothing was said between them. I don't know if this is standard procedure, but I'm quite animated with my QB and team during any timeout. I believe a asst coach was in the QB ear for the first 15-20sec (bad camera angle). Also at the end of the game I didn't notice Weiss talking to anyone except being gracious to the other team. Again, I'm not nitpicking, this might just be his way. Has anyone else noticed the lack of communication/moral between coaches and players?
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Post by ajreaper on Nov 6, 2007 10:13:27 GMT -6
Have the academic standards been raised recently? Lou did ok and the standards were stiff then as well.
I believe it's EGO. Plain and simple.
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Post by spreadattack on Nov 6, 2007 13:52:33 GMT -6
Have the academic standards been raised recently? Lou did ok and the standards were stiff then as well. I guess one of the arguments would be have others' standards fallen? This is from an ESPN columnist and is intended as a bit of a joke, so take it with a grain of salt. But a couple of the numbers are quite intense. Couple these graduation rates with the fact that you need higher credentials to get in (and you have to take harder classes when you're there) and it is quite interesting. |
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Post by superpower on Nov 6, 2007 14:14:47 GMT -6
Bottom line is we don't know what is going on inside the program. We don't know personnel issues, coaching issues, moral issues. We don't know what is being done/said/applied. One thing has bothered me: On the final timeout they kept the cameras on the ND QB and Weiss on the sideline. The QB stood apart (6 -8') with his back to Weiss, while Weiss stood there (listening to the booth). Nothing was said between them. I don't know if this is standard procedure, but I'm quite animated with my QB and team during any timeout. I believe a asst coach was in the QB ear for the first 15-20sec (bad camera angle). Also at the end of the game I didn't notice Weiss talking to anyone except being gracious to the other team. Again, I'm not nitpicking, this might just be his way. Has anyone else noticed the lack of communication/moral between coaches and players? That seems like an NFL approach with so much responsibility given to the OC and/or QB coach. |
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mg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 100 
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Post by mg on Nov 6, 2007 14:38:18 GMT -6
These seniors and Juniors at ND is why Ty was fired. He didn't recruit well at the end. The price is being paid right now. they will be back big when his recruits really start to play. His first full class are redshirt freshmen right now.
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Post by tye2021 on Nov 9, 2007 17:52:07 GMT -6
These seniors and Juniors at ND is why Ty was fired. He didn't recruit well at the end. The price is being paid right now. they will be back big when his recruits really start to play. His first full class are redshirt freshmen right now. Thats not entirely true. This is his 3rd year. So these are his JRs. I will agree that Ty did have a poor recruiting class at the end and the SR at ND aren't very good. Next year when his current Soph class are JRs will tell what type of success ND will have in the near future. I'm not included his JRs soon to be Srs because he didn't have a full recruiting season. |
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. ND was not ready for that game from the beginning and Navy was. Even the bus drivers for Navy were pumped up. I was sitting in traffic before the game and the navy buses came flying by doing about 75 down the center lane. Coming out of the tunnel ND looked like they were beat before they even stepped on the field. The only good excuse for losing that game was Robert Hugh's brother was shot and killed earlier that week. Weis took some time off to go to Chicago to be with Hughs and his family and the whole team went to the funeral in Chicago. Hopefully they can turn it around next year. 
