|
|
Post by calkayne on Sept 9, 2010 17:52:36 GMT -6
highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1124079I watched this game, good to watch. But the last seconds where horrible. Not from the game play but more from the Calls being made by the Officials. This led to one player flipping the bird as he headed to the Locker Room, he has been suspended for 2 Games. Is that justified? I dont think so.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Sept 9, 2010 18:14:52 GMT -6
I was there. I blame the coach of Dwyer really. Had he just thrown the ball to34 he would have bulled his way into the EZ and won the game. Same kid that flipped the bird. Jack Nicklaus's grandson and #1 TE in the country. The officials didn't officiate the last 2 plays well, but both were helping the runner not called on Dwyer.
|
|
|
|
Post by airraider on Sept 9, 2010 20:21:30 GMT -6
I was there. I blame the coach of Dwyer really. Had he just thrown the ball to34 he would have bulled his way into the EZ and won the game. Same kid that flipped the bird. Jack Nicklaus's grandson and #1 TE in the country. The officials didn't officiate the last 2 plays well, but both were helping the runner not called on Dwyer. I have to disagree.. that last play.. there was no reason that should have went down like that. |
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Sept 9, 2010 20:44:30 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by airraider on Sept 9, 2010 20:50:00 GMT -6
I wasnt disputing the kid.. just think that last play was a legit touchdown. |
|
|
|
Post by coachbdud on Sept 9, 2010 22:46:11 GMT -6
i watched this game.
first off the kid is a beat. he SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED because he was right... his team WON that game. they got screwed by the OHIO officials
the one kid CAUGHT a td on the sideline.. should have own the game
i think the first QB sneak got in the end zone
and the second one definitely got into the end zone, the kids entire body was in the end zone. How they didnt call it a TD is just absolutely robbery. Those officials should never be allowed to officiate again after that. They should get jail time it was so blatantly unfair.
i felt so bad for that Dwyer team. Worst case of a team being screwed i have ever seen
|
|
|
|
Post by flexoption91 on Sept 10, 2010 4:40:30 GMT -6
i watched this game. first off the kid is a beat. he SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED because he was right... his team WON that game. they got screwed by the OHIO officials the one kid CAUGHT a td on the sideline.. should have own the game i think the first QB sneak got in the end zone and the second one definitely got into the end zone, the kids entire body was in the end zone. How they didnt call it a TD is just absolutely robbery. Those officials should never be allowed to officiate again after that. They should get jail time it was so blatantly unfair. i felt so bad for that Dwyer team. Worst case of a team being screwed i have ever seen Actually they were not all Ohio officials.... I know at least one was from Tennessee....but that might even more legitmacy to a conspiracy theory ;D |
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Sept 10, 2010 5:12:45 GMT -6
Assisting the Runner (Point of Emphasis):
The NFHS Football Rules Committee develops competitive rules that promote fair play and attempt to minimize risks to student-athletes. Fundamental to this process is the constant evaluation of the rules and how they impact the balance between offense and defense. NFHS Rule 9-1 states: “An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress.” These acts, whether intentional or not, create an inequity between the offensive and defensive teams and must be penalized without regard to down or field position.
Pushing the pile forward has become more prominent at the high school level. This act alone does not necessarily constitute a violation of Rule 9-1 unless an offensive player is in direct contact with the runner and deliberately attempting to move him forward. Pulling or lifting a runner to assist his forward progress has no place in high school football. The sole reason these acts occur is to give the offensive team an advantage. Football officials are expected to penalize such actions so the balance can be maintained.
This rule 9-1 has been in the rules book for years but seldom enforced. The NFHS made it a point of emphasis this year and I think both of those goal line plays were examples of helping(aiding) the runner.
|
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Sept 10, 2010 6:16:38 GMT -6
We all know what assiting the runner is and that wasn't anything close to that. Plus the ref's didn't call assisting the runner. They just said the QB never got it. They may be saying now after they saw that they screwd up.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Sept 10, 2010 6:58:34 GMT -6
That is my point, this year they are being told by the powers that be, the NFHS rule people, to call it. There was direct contact by players with the intent to shove the QB into the end zone. The officials just chose to ignore the HTR and the fact that the QB broke the EZ plane, TWICE!
|
|
|
|
Post by calkayne on Sept 10, 2010 7:26:28 GMT -6
Regardless of the issue of should have beens (imo there where 2 TDs in that phase of the game that where disallowed) is the punishment of O'Leary justified?
Although the players are supposed to be disciplined, even after the whistle, the are not yet adults. Punishing a player for flipping the bird seems OTT to me, especially compared to what goes on onfield that is left unpunished.
Thats the crux of this thread. Not the officitial Decisions.
|
|
|
|
Post by casec11 on Sept 10, 2010 7:37:14 GMT -6
If the kid cursed at the officials would he get a two game suspension? Probably not
That's all the bird is... a curse word
JohnKnight, your opinion is a bit biased as an Ohio homer, as would mine being from Florida
|
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Sept 10, 2010 7:44:56 GMT -6
My opinion is Dwyer should have won the game and had they let OLeary carry the ball at the end he would have made it impossible for the officials to not call a TD! That is my reason for saying the Dwyer Coach is responsible.
|
|
|
|
Post by fballcoachg on Sept 10, 2010 8:16:11 GMT -6
I definitely do not believe the kid should be suspended two games especially considering the situation. However, I also do not agree with the coach saying he is going to forfiet the 2 games...while you should stick up for your players, what he did WAS and IS wrong, the coach seems to be confusing his anger for the way the game turned out with the punishment handed down.
As for the game, I could understand a bad angle on the first TD (pass) and maybe not calling the second one (thought there should have been a delay on Glenville for laying on the ground) but I thought the final try was definitely a TD. And, as a born and raised Clevelander, I can openly say that I believe Dwyer was robbed, which hurts because anytime an Ohio team plays an out of state team I am pulling for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by airraider on Sept 10, 2010 8:56:16 GMT -6
Assisting the Runner (Point of Emphasis): The NFHS Football Rules Committee develops competitive rules that promote fair play and attempt to minimize risks to student-athletes. Fundamental to this process is the constant evaluation of the rules and how they impact the balance between offense and defense. NFHS Rule 9-1 states: “An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress.” These acts, whether intentional or not, create an inequity between the offensive and defensive teams and must be penalized without regard to down or field position. Pushing the pile forward has become more prominent at the high school level. This act alone does not necessarily constitute a violation of Rule 9-1 unless an offensive player is in direct contact with the runner and deliberately attempting to move him forward. Pulling or lifting a runner to assist his forward progress has no place in high school football. The sole reason these acts occur is to give the offensive team an advantage. Football officials are expected to penalize such actions so the balance can be maintained. This rule 9-1 has been in the rules book for years but seldom enforced. The NFHS made it a point of emphasis this year and I think both of those goal line plays were examples of helping(aiding) the runner. Then call the penalty.. they didnt call the penalty.. they just didnt signal TD.. if it wasnt a TD based on the penalty then fine.. And.. you and I both know.. as well as everyone around here.. that is a judgement call that is very rarely called. |
|
Boltar
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
|
Post by Boltar on Sept 10, 2010 9:16:16 GMT -6
I watched it as well. Not only was it a great catch by the kid in the end zone, he was clearly in for the TD. Also, the QB was in the end zone for a TD as well.
I agree with the others about the "assisting" the runner rule. If they see it, call it. Otherwise, call the TD.
The middle finger by the kid, I don't know. It's obviously not something you want to do it but I have to wonder if it hadn't been seen on national TV, if any suspension would have occurred.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachbdud on Sept 10, 2010 11:43:08 GMT -6
its not assistting the runner... the post above defined it as pushing specifically one player toward the end zone, but in this case it was just a mass of bodies driving forward, no one knows whose pushing who they are just pushing.
ive seen that same situation thousands of times, a QB sneak or dive on the goal line and i have NEVER seen assisting the runner called.
it was just a horrible job of officiating.
Dwyer scored 2-3 TDs on that last drive
|
|
jlt
Junior Member
Posts: 313
|
Post by jlt on Sept 13, 2010 6:21:20 GMT -6
This assisting the runner talk is crap. You show me a QB sneak from the 1 where theres a big pile and there isnt some RB or FB pushing it!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Sept 13, 2010 6:38:05 GMT -6
1. The kid should have kept himself in check but a two game suspension is crap. Let the coaching staff deal with it. No matter how cheated I felt by the officials, I would never allow a kid to pull that kind of crap; I would've probably pulled him from the next game. BUT, that's am coach's call, not the state's.
2. The officiating was horrendous; the calls that negated the scores were all subjective and based on judgment. Once ANY team is in the red zone like that, the officials need to look for the BLATANT penalties, not the b.s. judgment calls. The kid's body breaks the plane; you don't stand there for a few seconds and then whip out a flag and call "assisting the runner". It was all about the timing; if they saw the FB driving him into the end zone, call it as soon as you see it, not after the score.
3. If a kid scores, you had d-mn well make sure that there was a GOOD reason for calling it back.
|
|
jlt
Junior Member
Posts: 313
|
Post by jlt on Sept 13, 2010 8:13:31 GMT -6
1. The kid should have kept himself in check but a two game suspension is crap 3. If a kid scores, you had d-mn well make sure that there was a GOOD reason for calling it back. Couldnt have summed it up better |
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Sept 13, 2010 9:54:35 GMT -6
The aiding the runner argument has nothing to do with this because that wasn't the call on the field.
Is there anyone on here that knows the situation better? Has there been any disciplinary actions handed down to the refs?
|
|
|
|
Post by dowens66 on Sept 15, 2010 6:08:39 GMT -6
The officials from the game are notorious in columbus. No idea how they got that gig
|
|
|
|
Post by John Knight on Sept 15, 2010 6:38:30 GMT -6
My point was that the officials could have bought their way out of looking like cheats if they had called HTR, whether anyone agrees that it was or not. It is a POE and the crew could have easily blamed the loss on the new rule emphasis!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Sept 15, 2010 8:50:45 GMT -6
As much as I disagree with what the officials did, I'm going to play devil's advocate. Unfortunately, even when the zebras are wrong, they're always right. There's no way around it.
During our first game, the officials called a penalty for excessive celebration after a TD when our guys just high-fived in the end zone. They also called us for a penalty on EVERY single PAT; two of them were complete b.s.. They called our WB for a false start twice; I had my eyes on every single PAT because they were coming off of his side HARD. And, then they made their 'judgment calls'; holding and aiding the runner on a two point conversion. The 'aiding the runner call' was similar to what we saw in this game; our back crossed the plane, the officials sat there for a few seconds and then called it. We also kicked a PAT through that was good and they wouldn't give it to us. The official under the cross bar sat there, looked over at the side judge, shrugged his shoulders, smiled and called it no good. We lost the game by two points.
Now, with all of that being said, I chewed my tongue off and was all over my assistant, parents and player for not keeping their traps shut about it. Believe me, I had a HARD time, especially when one of the opposing players pushed off and tossed out a racial slur at one of our guys, right in front of me and the line judge on our side. It was friggin blatant. But, again, I kept my mouth shut because there's no point in arguing with them over anything. You'll just dig yourself in a deeper hole with them.
You've got to be prepared to play against the opposing team AND the officials, especially when you're away. We made our own serious mistakes; had two scores called back for clipping, after we'd walked into the end zone. We turned the ball over and played sloppy, sloppy football. Had we played a better game of football, we would've run away with it, even with the crap we were getting out of the officials.
|
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Sept 15, 2010 9:10:31 GMT -6
As much as I disagree with what the officials did, I'm going to play devil's advocate. Unfortunately, even when the zebras are wrong, they're always right. There's no way around it. During our first game, the officials called a penalty for excessive celebration after a TD when our guys just high-fived in the end zone. They also called us for a penalty on EVERY single PAT; two of them were complete b.s.. They called our WB for a false start twice; I had my eyes on every single PAT because they were coming off of his side HARD. And, then they made their 'judgment calls'; holding and aiding the runner on a two point conversion. The 'aiding the runner call' was similar to what we saw in this game; our back crossed the plane, the officials sat there for a few seconds and then called it. We also kicked a PAT through that was good and they wouldn't give it to us. The official under the cross bar sat there, looked over at the side judge, shrugged his shoulders, smiled and called it no good. We lost the game by two points. Now, with all of that being said, I chewed my tongue off and was all over my assistant, parents and player for not keeping their traps shut about it. Believe me, I had a HARD time, especially when one of the opposing players pushed off and tossed out a racial slur at one of our guys, right in front of me and the line judge on our side. It was friggin blatant. But, again, I kept my mouth shut because there's no point in arguing with them over anything. You'll just dig yourself in a deeper hole with them. You've got to be prepared to play against the opposing team AND the officials, especially when you're away. We made our own serious mistakes; had two scores called back for clipping, after we'd walked into the end zone. We turned the ball over and played sloppy, sloppy football. Had we played a better game of football, we would've run away with it, even with the crap we were getting out of the officials. I agree with you about 90% on what you said. However, there is a time and a place for arguing with officials. I've seen first hand coaches/teams that loooves to argue get more calls there way after. If you never argue a call it actually can work against you sometimes. The refs thinking being "hey if I make a close call against this nice coach he's not going to argue anyway and I won't have to deal with it". Sounds wrong but it happens. Officials that think that way shouldn't be reffing by the way. But they are out there. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Sept 15, 2010 10:00:40 GMT -6
As much as I disagree with what the officials did, I'm going to play devil's advocate. Unfortunately, even when the zebras are wrong, they're always right. There's no way around it. During our first game, the officials called a penalty for excessive celebration after a TD when our guys just high-fived in the end zone. They also called us for a penalty on EVERY single PAT; two of them were complete b.s.. They called our WB for a false start twice; I had my eyes on every single PAT because they were coming off of his side HARD. And, then they made their 'judgment calls'; holding and aiding the runner on a two point conversion. The 'aiding the runner call' was similar to what we saw in this game; our back crossed the plane, the officials sat there for a few seconds and then called it. We also kicked a PAT through that was good and they wouldn't give it to us. The official under the cross bar sat there, looked over at the side judge, shrugged his shoulders, smiled and called it no good. We lost the game by two points. Now, with all of that being said, I chewed my tongue off and was all over my assistant, parents and player for not keeping their traps shut about it. Believe me, I had a HARD time, especially when one of the opposing players pushed off and tossed out a racial slur at one of our guys, right in front of me and the line judge on our side. It was friggin blatant. But, again, I kept my mouth shut because there's no point in arguing with them over anything. You'll just dig yourself in a deeper hole with them. You've got to be prepared to play against the opposing team AND the officials, especially when you're away. We made our own serious mistakes; had two scores called back for clipping, after we'd walked into the end zone. We turned the ball over and played sloppy, sloppy football. Had we played a better game of football, we would've run away with it, even with the crap we were getting out of the officials. I agree with you about 90% on what you said. However, there is a time and a place for arguing with officials. I've seen first hand coaches/teams that loooves to argue get more calls there way after. If you never argue a call it actually can work against you sometimes. The refs thinking being "hey if I make a close call against this nice coach he's not going to argue anyway and I won't have to deal with it". Sounds wrong but it happens. Officials that think that way shouldn't be reffing by the way. But they are out there. I agree with that to a point. We play teams from very, very isolated, small towns. The officials we get are generally born and raised in the area, so there's generally no point in arguing with them; they'll just nail you worse. Plus (and I hate to pull this card out..) our team is 90% Native and our conference is packed full of white ranching communities; there's a lot of bigotry that goes on. And, again, I hate to say that and I keep a firm lid on it with the team, but it's the truth. I had a feeling that we would deal with some of that, but I had NOO idea how bad it was until that kid popped off with that racial slur, right in front of our bench, the official and was loud enough for parents to hear it. I asked the official to watch for it and I did so professionally (it was hard..) but it went on all game long. The two clipping calls we had were my guys retaliating for racial slurs. It's not an excuse; they've dealt with it for years and should have walked away, but it was getting ugly. |
|
